Indochina Map [Done]

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Postby freakshow on Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:24 pm

Ok points well taken, I'll mess with the visuals alittle and maybe add an impassible boundry, no can do with moving the names inside the countries though, the map is just to narrow.
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Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:22 pm

I'm sorry to see the map is up and no changes were made, even minor visual ones. Only time will what happens to the map.

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Postby freakshow on Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:33 pm

actually I stand by the fact that changes will be made I'm just kinda busy for a week or so, expect changes soon.
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Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:34 pm

Then I don't quite understand submitting an unfinished map, that is if drastic changes are going to be made (either in playability or visuals...or both).

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Postby Marvaddin on Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:23 pm

Agreed, you cant send unfinished maps.
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Postby freakshow on Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:44 pm

actually the map was finished at least structurally, I decided not to add any impassables, it plays fairly well altough I will admit the games are considerable shorter than normal.
I've sent this new image off to lack so you should see it replacing the large map in a few days, I'll get started on a diffrent smaller version soon.
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Postby PaperPlunger on Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:49 pm

cool
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Postby Charbroil on Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:55 pm

Better, but there are natural mountains between Ha Tinh and the west, so could you at least cut Ha Tinh off from what's further west? Thank you.
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Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:03 pm

Well this map looks a dab more appealing than it previously did. It's getting closer to finished, but I still have to say that it must go further. There is no rush to finish a map in a few days. Take longer on them and make them what they truly can be! That said,

~Visual Appeal~

---It's come quite a way from your original map. Kudos on that. But it still feels like a bland cereal box drawing. Give it textures and subtle tones of color change. Each country should feel like it's a country, rather than simply a plot of land. Even the water, Thailand, and China could benefit from some sort of texture.

---The text choice is alright, though it seems some countries are bolder, while others are thinner. Vientiane and Hua Phan for instance. Try to keep a consistency. Minor suggestion of making the Gulf of Tonkin larger, just so as not to confuse anyone that is is a country. Perhaps you can make it larger and more elaborate, same goes for South China Sea and the Gulf of Thailand, along with the Thaild and China. All of them could be larger and more eleaborate to improve the quality of the map.

---Legend is alright, could use a little sprucing up but I think it is currently the least of your worries.

============================================

~~~Nitty Gritty~~~

---I cannot stand the continent of Laos. It has 7 borders, way too many. It's a 'Lost Continent'.

---Annam isn't any better, it has 6 countries, 5 of them borders. Also seems rather lost.

---Cambodia has 4 borders, it's doing slightly better than the rest.

---Tonkin is actually near balance, amazingly enough.

---Cochinchina has 3 borders and 3 countries, I think it could definitely use a knock down to 2 borders.

------Also...I still count 31 countries...bad number.

==============================

Many people have suggested some sort of impassable boundaries, and you have excluded them. Now maps can work without them, if they are well put together and generally balanced (I.E. Classic Map). I wholeheartedly must agree with them on this issue. Something must be done to make this map playable.

I suggest buckling down and working on this map some more. As I said, there isn't a need to rush a map through the process of quality control. It is a needed process and helps make maps better. I see a lot of potential in this map, but a lot of it has gone to waste currently.



--Andy
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Postby freakshow on Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:37 pm

I'm sorry but until you've played on this map I fail to see how you can call it unplayable.
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Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:42 pm

Once I've an open spot I'll give it a shot. Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against you, just your rush to see this map finished. I just want CC to have the best possible maps. :)

Edit: I've got a game up and running and once I finish it I'll give a detailed analysis of how it went.

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Last edited by AndyDufresne on Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Marvaddin on Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:26 pm

This map sucks because the continents arent well designed. They have much more borders than they should. The single exception is Tonkin. 31 is a fucking number. You should use a different font for the oceans, too (Gulf of Tonkin seems a name of a country). Textures would be welcome...

By the way, you was trying do the worst legend ever, too... This isnt difficult, centralize the longer name, put the names exactly under the others, use bars of same width...

Its much less ridiculous than the previous version, I admit. But if you dont increase the playability, it will be a forgotten map very soon. All map is more played in the beggining, then the better ones are more played. The Crossword "map", as I warned, is the less used. And yours will be the same too, believe me.
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Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:31 pm

Okay, I recently finished a game on the current Indochina map that is up for playing. These are some things I've noticed from doing a playtest.

________________________________________

---The southern portion of the map is extremely powerful. Once you take over say Cochinchina and cambodia, you can limit yourself to 2 borders in the center of the dumbell bottleneck. This gives you a quick 7 for 2 borders. Annam is impossible to hold, as I stated before, especially when the tactic of taking over the southern portion of the map is employed. The northern portion is not as strong as the south, but obviously better than the middle. In the north a bonus of 3 can easily be gotten, and you can also limit yourself to 2 borders in the center bottleneck. Laos is also nearly impossible to hold for this reason.

---The bottleneck is a main problem with how the map currently is. The map really only seems to have 3 areas. The Strong South with two continents, and the North with 1, and then lastly 'No Man's Land' in between--the 7 countries that make up the bottle neck. This nearly becomes only a war on 1 front. Now I played a 3 person game, and the person toward the south had the greatest advantage. The person in the north was still doing alright, but the player in the middle was utterly screwed due to lack of any continents worth holding.

---I'm not sure how you can change the bottleneck, without adding more countries (which surely a few should be added considering there are only 31). Impassable borders would greatly benefit Laos and Annam. Perhaps then the map might not then divulge into a 1 front war.


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Postby lilwdlnddude on Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:13 pm

Yeah im in 2 indochina games and annam is REALLY hard to hold because maybe, 9 countries are bordering it?? it is touching every "continent" on the map. same with laos only cochinchina isnt touching it. but maybe thats the point of the map. to have a "no mans land". I dont know... I guess it just requires alot of quick decisions, and if thoes are bad decisions then your screwed.
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Postby Marvaddin on Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:15 pm

Andy, sometimes I think you are crazy. Did you REALLY play THIS map?? I cant believe :lol: :lol: :lol:
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