Macedonia map [Gp, Gr, X, BETA, Qnchd.]

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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby skeletonboy on Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:49 pm

Evil DIMwit wrote:Random idea: represent the other countries entirely in shadow and just have the map pop above that, as it does now.
Either way you can keep the arrows.


This would work, i think it would create a good effect.

Another point is that the Stip/Strumica/Bitola colours are very similar. You might want to tone up the colours so the colour differance is a bit more noticable.
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:07 pm

isaiah40 wrote:
Evil DIMwit wrote:Ah, much better. Now we can start the analysis.

isaiah40 wrote:As for Skopje, you could have it set for +x auto deploy as well. Bonuses for holding x amount of capitals wouldn't necessarily make it more complicated, it just adds a little more strategy I think.


This map is too small and there are too many capitals to put auto-deploy on every one. Almost a quarter of the territories are capitals -- that gameplay element would take over the map. In any case, capital auto-deploys are far too common nowadays.


Let me rephrase here. You could put an auto deploy of x armies on Skopje only, not on every capital, OR you could go the way of x armies for holding y capitals. NOT both.


Ah, I see. Well, my thoughts on auto-deploys still stand: at this point, you need a more compelling reason for auto-deploy than "it's the capital."
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:21 pm

Evil DIMwit wrote:Ah, I see. Well, my thoughts on auto-deploys still stand: at this point, you need a more compelling reason for auto-deploy than "it's the capital."


True, just an idea I threw out there that's all.
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby kristijan_mk on Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:54 am

excellent job n.n.
geography is correct. Vardar river actually starts from Gostivar, but it looks better this way on the map.

besides being a capital, there is no gameplay reason for Skopje to receive autodeploy. If we go on another type of bonus I'm for holding capitals, but not starting from 3 or 4 but for example

-for holding 7 capitals - 4
-for holding 8 capitals - 5
-for holding all capitals - 7

anyway the map will be fun to play even without that bonus. And not only for Macedoninas :)
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby skeletonboy on Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:34 pm

I think you should make the borders curved a bit, at the moment its a bit too sharp. You could just round the corners slightly.
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby fumandomuerte on Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:12 pm

Mmm I don't like the idea of a 3 territories region (Skopje) granting a +4 bonus. What if all your capitals start neutral (so nobody gets drop advantage since it's a small map) and you give bonus like:
3 capitals = +1
5 capitals = +3
7 capitals = +5
9 capitals = +7
Awesome graphics, simple but original.
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby skeletonboy on Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:16 pm

I agree that the bonuses are badly distributed, since theres an 8 teritory continant that has a 6 bonus and a 3 terit cont with a 4 bonus.
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby n.n. on Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:34 pm

Hi all,
here's the latest map image i made:

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I am very open for all continent bonuses suggestions so please do help me with that, but please suggest bonuses for every continent!

The Skopje continent actually has 4 territories (Skopje, Crna Gora, Studenicani, Petrovec) - is it not clear?
If it is not clear enough please suggest how to make it clearer - maybe add thin black border lines on the edge of the river?

Also, i am very much leaning towards no special bonuses for holding capitals and also no auto-deploy, i guess i am a bit old school but i like things as clean and as simple as they can be and i would really like to have that with this map and its gameplay.

Please keep supporting the development of this map with comments and suggestions !
Last edited by n.n. on Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby fumandomuerte on Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:56 pm

n.n. wrote:The Skopje continent actually has 4 territories (Skopje, Crna Gora, Studenicani, Petrovec) - is it not clear?
If it is not clear enough please suggest how to make it clearer - maybe add thin black border lines on the edge of the river?

You're right, it's very clear that there are 4 territories within that region.

n.n. wrote:Also, i am very much leaning towards no special bonuses for holding capitals and also no auto-deploy, i guess i am a bit old school but i like things as clean and as simple as they can be and i would really like to have that with this map and its gameplay.

Other than the fon size, don't give too much graphic importance to capitals (remove black squares for example).

Here are my bonuses suggestions:
Skopje +3
Bitola +5 (if you take Kavadarci you reduce your bordering terits. From 4 to 3)
Veles +3
Tetovo +2
Ohrid +3
Kumanovo +2
Stip +4
Berovo +1/+2
Strumica +4
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby skeletonboy on Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:01 pm

Berovo and Tetovo should have the same bonus as they both have 3 terits and 2 borders

EDIT:you should update the first post with the most recent image and update the title with the version number
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby n.n. on Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:33 pm

skeletonboy wrote:you should update the first post with the most recent image and update the title with the version number


Is it a must to update the image on the first page? Much of the comments would lose sense if i do that !?

To both skeletonboy and fumandomuerte:
Thanks for the continent bonuses suggestions - i agree with the logic behind it and have already changed them accordingly:

Skopje +3
Bitola +5 (if you take Kavadarci you reduce your bordering terits. From 4 to 3)
Veles +3
Tetovo +2
Ohrid +3
Kumanovo +2
Stip +4
Berovo +2
Strumica +4

lets now wait for others to comment on that...

Also i have added a thin border around the river so its completely clear that it also represents a border (+impassable) and i have removed the black squares and increased the continent names font but now the map looks kind of worse than it was before, will be posting a image of that these days after more discussion on the bonuses.
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby skeletonboy on Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:01 pm

It isnt a must, but it makes it a lot easier for those who are new to the thread. You could have all of the versions in the first post.
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby natty dread on Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:04 pm

skeletonboy wrote:It isnt a must, but it makes it a lot easier for those who are new to the thread. You could have all of the versions in the first post.


Actually, it is a must. First post should always contain the latest version of the map.
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby n.n. on Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:57 pm

natty_dread wrote:
skeletonboy wrote:It isnt a must, but it makes it a lot easier for those who are new to the thread. You could have all of the versions in the first post.


Actually, it is a must. First post should always contain the latest version of the map.


I added the latest version to the first post, kept the first version in also.
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby natty dread on Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:46 pm

n.n. wrote:
natty_dread wrote:
skeletonboy wrote:It isnt a must, but it makes it a lot easier for those who are new to the thread. You could have all of the versions in the first post.


Actually, it is a must. First post should always contain the latest version of the map.


I added the latest version to the first post, kept the first version in also.


Nice, but the latest version should be first... that way it's easy for people to find. If you put the oldest first, people will comment on the wrong version, simply because people are expecting to find the latest version first... You know, because that's how everyone else does it...
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Re: Macedonia v1.0

Postby n.n. on Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:07 pm

natty_dread wrote:Nice, but the latest version should be first... that way it's easy for people to find. If you put the oldest first, people will comment on the wrong version, simply because people are expecting to find the latest version first... You know, because that's how everyone else does it...


ok, done :)

Waiting for the bonuses/other ideas and arguments...
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Re: Macedonia map

Postby ifkas on Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:04 am

Freakin awesome map ! Thanks for making it nn !!! :)

I have no suggestions to add.. just perfect as it is for now ! good lookin macedonian map
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Re: Macedonia map

Postby Evil DIMwit on Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:44 am

As far as gameplay, the layout is good but the bonuses need to be adjusted. My own recommendations differ a little from fumandomuerte's (I've underlined the differences):

Skopje: 3
Bitola: 4
Veles: 4
Tetovo: 2
Ohrid: 3
Kumanovo: 2
Stip: 5
Berovo: 2
Strumica: 4
Lakes: 3

Bitola is large but it can be defended with just a three-territory perimeter; it shouldn't be worth the most. Veles and Stip are highly connected, central continents and as such should be worth more.
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Re: Macedonia map

Postby SWeko on Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:38 am

First of all, great map, and nice artwork too. (I am Macedonian, so I might be biased :))
I think that this map will be very fun too play, as it looks there will be balanced gameplay.

I agree that Bitola can be defended on 3 territs, but it does have 8 territories (9 if you count kavadarci for defending), so it won't be an easy continent to take, even if it's easy to defend afterwards. +4 is too small a bonus for that, but maybe +6 is a bit too large.
I agree that Veles and Stip are the central and practically undefendable continents, but +5 is again large bonus for a 5 territories contintent, even if it has to be defended on every one of them.

Skopje: 3
Bitola: 5
Veles: 4
Tetovo: 2
Ohrid: 3
Kumanovo: 2
Stip: 4
Berovo: 2
Strumica: 4
Lakes: 3
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Re: Macedonia map

Postby rtgs on Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:38 pm

Jas kolku sto se razbiram Kocani i Kumanovo ne se vo ist region i mnogu tesko moze od kocani da dojdesh vo kriva palanka i kratovo, mnogu potesko od drugite planini koi se nacrtani na mapata.

od sosedite gore levo nedostiga kosovo.
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Re: Macedonia map

Postby skeletonboy on Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:50 pm

rtgs wrote:Jas kolku sto se razbiram Kocani i Kumanovo ne se vo ist region i mnogu tesko moze od kocani da dojdesh vo kriva palanka i kratovo, mnogu potesko od drugite planini koi se nacrtani na mapata.

od sosedite gore levo nedostiga kosovo.


Is this serbian? Using a translator I got this.

I of course as far as Kocani and Kumanovo not in the same region and very hard of Kocani to dojdesh in Kriva Palanka and Kratovo, many other difficulties of the mountain which is drawn on map. Above left neighbors of a lack of Kosovo.
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Re: Macedonia map

Postby n.n. on Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:20 am

rtgs wrote:Jas kolku sto se razbiram Kocani i Kumanovo ne se vo ist region i mnogu tesko moze od kocani da dojdesh vo kriva palanka i kratovo, mnogu potesko od drugite planini koi se nacrtani na mapata.

od sosedite gore levo nedostiga kosovo.


Its Macedonian.

He is saying that Kocani and Kumanovo should not be in the same region and/or that at least there should be mountains surrounding it (on the north and north-west, my guess) because it is not naturally and directly connected to K. Palanka and Kratovo. Also there is a Kosovo border missing in the North-West.

My response to that is that this is a decision made in the process of map drawing and that i am open to suggestions on how to make it better and more consistent with the real geography.
One possible and consistent solution would be to join Kocani with the Berovo continent and add mountains Kocani/Kratovo and Kocani/K. Palanka borders, that would also mean removing the mountains between Kratovo and Probistip in order to make the new Kumanovo continent open on more than one territory. (Also, there is a existing road between Kratovo and Probistip and these towns are close enough, as a justification for removing the mountains between them)
To this solution i would agree if rtgs (as a Macedonian with the knowledge of terrain in question) agrees to it.
It would make the map even more consistent to Macedonian geography and infrastructure in my opinion.

Unfortunately, this would also mean another revision of bonuses but my best guess is that you guys do not mind as long as this means having a better final product, at least i hope so.

On the Kosovo question - i will eventually add it but it is with lower priority since it does not affect the gameplay.

Will be adding new version soon...
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Re: Macedonia map

Postby Pandemonium on Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:55 pm

Nice, nice discussions...

Almost all valid points.
I would agree with SWeko's last post, and RTGS makes sense too, but I don't know that particular region that well, so I leave it to the map-creator to decide.

PS the drawing around the map start to get pretty dense and if more are added, the maps minimalistic beauty will be lost...

PPS the latest version doesn't load on the first post on page 1 (imageshack error probably...)
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Re: Macedonia map

Postby n.n. on Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:37 pm

Most recent version with some of the proposed changes implemented (mostly from rtgs), posted in the first post also.

Kocani is now part of the Berovo continent.

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Re: Macedonia map

Postby natty dread on Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:02 pm

I like the graphics otherwise, but those mountains will have to go... check out this thread on mountain making by RjBeals: viewtopic.php?f=466&t=78687

Also: why are some territory names in larger size than others? Are they capitals or something? If there's no reason relevant to gameplay then you should make them all the same size. It's kinda distracting.

Ah... now I see, they double as bonus area names. Still, I'd rather you'd find another way of distinguishing them from other territories. Maybe a coloured stroke on the text, or underline, italic, or something like that. But it'd look much better if they were the same size, in my opinion.
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