Conquer Club

Hm, So...

---I'm liking the reverse gradient, glad it turned out how I thought it would.

---Splitting up Asia Minor was probably the way to go. It looks more visually appealing now that it isn't a bunch of little islands and a giant country. Seems more balanced in that aspect.

---Legend is coming along nicely also I believe. Perhaps one suggestion to look into would be changing the 'Directional' Greece continent names. Sometimes it just seems like they are blander, and I'm sure you could find alternative names for the posted areas. But if not, they will work just fine. I just happen to like names rather than 'directional area'.

That's all I will say for now. Perhaps when you are done changing most of the layout of the map, I'll try to comment on the nitty gritty parts.

~~~

--Andy

... I love it. I wasn't aware this map was being made and had my own Greek map under construction . . . . Construction has since stopped.

... Could you slap some art on there someplace? A Trojan ship or a Minotaur or something?

Suggestion pursuant to Andy's comment - Central Greece -> Athens?

And a possible alternative to "The Islands" could be "The Aegean" or "Aegea".

That rhombus around the Kyklades took me a second or two to figure out.

Lookin good...

Love the map! It looks awesome!

Great balance between safe spots and hard to hold territories. Good accessibility. Just waiting to see the bonuses.

I agree with Andy about the names, so I suggest the following:

Northern Greece = The Mountains
Western Greece = Central Hellas
Central Greece = Attica (and change the name of the territory so named) or Kapital (or the correct Greek term of your choosing)

Wow, I loved it...

... but I would still like of 42 countries. Anyway, very beautiful, although with some playability problems (for example, all green countries beeing borders).

I believe that Nobunaga should post his version, so we could choose the better things in each to make a really good one.

it looks really cool!!

looks good...the lighter version is better, in my opinion...i'd definitely be interesting in seeing a finished version.

Hey guys, i'm glad everyone is liking the map so far.

As for the legend, I didn't really put much thought into the names yet. I didn't realize people like non-directional names so much.

I suppose I could change "Central Greece" to Athens, I was actually considering that one. As for "The Islands," I could name them "Nisia" (which is the Greek word for Islands, and what Greeks usually refer to them as) or "The Agean" is also a good suggestion, though I feel that one is slightly misguiding. I'll put some more thought into the rest of them later.

You guys can start commenting on the nitty gritty of the map, i'm not really sure what else to do at this point other than work on that kind of stuff.

As for Western Greece having too many entrances, thats pretty right. I figured i'd break the entrance between Achae and Aetolia. Still its a pretty tough place to control though. Perhaps also break the Kefalonia and Zakynthos link? I think that'd make it a lot easier to control. Thoughts? Should I break any links, if so, which? or both?
Also, Central Greece looks pretty hard to control too. I dont think it would be appropriate to put any boundries in there other than possibly make Euboea untouchable from Western Greek territories..

As for bonuses, feel free to make suggestions. I'm not really sure I can come up with a great bonus list... But heres one, just from taking a few looks at the map (using the names that are currently on the legend).

Peloponesos: 5
Northern Greece: 4
Western Greece: (i'll decide when i'm more sure of its borders)
Central Greece: (same)
Asia Minor: 3
The Islands: 2

You might want to make the quadrilateral border of Kyklades the same colour as the rest of the borders (i.e. black). The current border looks too much (in colour and width) like the attack links between territories.

While certain continents do have a very high proportion of border territories this is not an altogether bad thing. So long as the continents do not have too many territories. It just means the map plays differently. Different is good.

Your next step should be to come up with some firm bonuses (maybe take away an attack link or two) and let Marv rip it apart using his quantum "territory:# of border:total # of territory" formula.

Ah...My real long post did not make it...due to forum logging out...damn it...I'll type it up again...from memory...Should've saved it.

--Andy

Of course, I will suggest bonus...

But, first thing, let me know: will you add some countries or this will be a smaller map (for 3-4 players games)? I really like numbers between 42 and 48... but, anyway, this can be a funny and good map.

And, Im still expecting some suggestions, Nobunaga.

I'll do my best to help. There will be discrepencies throughout until in the end I show the final revisions so bare with me.
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---Peloponesos~~ 8 Countries; 3 Borders; 6 Attack routes. I'm thinking this continent is alright as it stands on the map. It's pretty well balanced and could easily denote a 4-5 bonus.

---Central Greece~~ 7 Countries; 4 Borders; 6 Attack routes. As it stands on the map perhaps a 6 bonus.

---W. Greece~~ 5 Countries; 5 Borders; 9 Attack routes. This would be an extremely hard continent to hold. It can be attack from many different places. Obviously somethings needs to be done about the border issue. Perhaps if you take out the border between Aetolia and Achaea that would increase the holdability. Bringing it to 4 borders; 8 attack routes. Now if you get rid of a few attack routes, say Euboea to Thessaly that would bring it to 7 attack routes. I'm considering suggesting deleting the border between Acarnani and Epirus. This would make then 3 borders; 6 attack routes. This might be the route to go, but as it stands w. Greece is a play of havoc. A 4-5 bonus would be in store perhaps.

---N. Greece~~ 6 Countries; 3 Borders; 4 Attack routes as it stands on the map. Now if you do take the Epirus-Acarnani border out that would make it have 3 borders and 3 attack routes. Perhaps a value of 4ish.

---Asia Minor~~ 7 Countries; 3 Borders; 3 Attack routes. I like the this stagnant part of the map. I don't think many changes are needed here. Similar to N. Greece, perhaps a value of 4 also.

---The Islands~~ 4 Countries, 2 Borders; 4 Attack routes. Though this is a small continent, I foresee many battles here due to the attack routes from many continents. Which I think is well balanced. A suggested value of 3 due to the attack routes.

From what it looks like the strong continents end up being Asia Minor and The Islands. Once you take those over, you can get a rather nice bonus for only two possible borders...hm
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Now with map revisions...the new lay out....

------Peloponesos~~ 3 Borders; 5 Attack routes. Border Countries: Zakynthos, Achaea, Argolis. As it is here I think the 4-5, more toward 5.

------Central Greece~~ 4 Borders; 5 Attack routes. Border Countries: Euboea, Boeotia, Corinth, Tinos. This seems like a tougher continent to hold, but still possible I think. A bonus of 5-6, maybe more toward 6.

------W. Greece~~ 4 Borders; 7 Attack routes. Border Countries: Thessaly, Locris, Kefalonia, Acarnani. I'm starting to lean more toward 4 borders, even though it is such a small continent. I think leaving it at 4 borders would help keep the continents from being too alike. It would be naturally tough to hold, but too hard. A bonus 6-7, perhas more toward the higher value.

------N. Greece~~ 3 Borders; 3 Attack routes. Border Countries: Epirus, Makedonia, Thrace. If the route between Epirus-Acarnani was kept then it would push it to 4 attack routes, but mostly getting rid of that border was to help W. Greece, but you can make arguments for it to stay. 3-4

------Asia Minor~~ 3 Borders; 3 Attack routes. Border Countries: Mysia, Samos, Caria. Value 3-4, perhaps the lower. Should be somewhat similar to N. Greece, but maybe a value less due to it being further away from the havoc of 'directional' Greece.

------The Islands~~ 2 Borders; 4 attack routes. Border Countries: Kyklades, Rhodos. I think a bonus of 3 will work fine, due to the attack routes from various continents. But an argument can be made for 2.

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Jeez, did I make any sense there? I don't even know if I helped really...hehe. I'm sure Marv. and Grim and others can do a better analysis than I have done. But I've tried to get you somewhere, and got a few ideas out there.

--Andy

first off the map is looking pretty good. nice one!

the islands look as though they're floating above the ocean like clouds. maybe lessen the distance of the drop shadow? also think the map as a whole is a touch too light...slightly! but that's just me.

also i agree with what zorba_ca said about the kyklades borders looking too much like attack links. i think if you make the attack links intersect the border at a perpendicular angle instead of at corners of the border that might help. those 3 point nodes are confusing. maybe make the border an ellipse. or even more drastic just get rid of the border around kyklades and have the links go right up to an island (see discworld map thread). i don't think it will be too confusing.

overall great job so far.

Hmmm...

Reading Andy's latest post:

From what it looks like the strong continents end up being Asia Minor and The Islands. Once you take those over, you can get a rather nice bonus for only two possible borders

It made me realize that this game board is too circular. The Agean is like a void and due to country locations most of the fighting will be in the west. I would suggest an additional cross-route or two.

Perhaps Skyros to Lesbos and/or Skyros to Xios.

There is at least three names I'd like to see on the map: Athens, Sparta and Thebe. There already was some talk about Athens, but those other two are also names that mean a lot in ancient Greek history, especially Sparta. I could dig into a couple of history books and give some further input later this weekend, if you would like. Also, do you have any spesific era in mind?

Pristella wrote:There is at least three names I'd like to see on the map: Athens, Sparta and Thebe. There already was some talk about Athens, but those other two are also names that mean a lot in ancient Greek history, especially Sparta. I could dig into a couple of history books and give some further input later this weekend, if you would like. Also, do you have any spesific era in mind?

I got three names for you: Attica, Lakonia and Boeotia.

I agree with pristella, people would like the map more if you put the more recognizeable names on it like sparta and athens and thebes

maybe you could make them territory names, instead of like central greece or western greece or whatever. but i dont really know where they were located.

looks good, really like the idea of ancient greece map. what about adding the lost city of Atlantis in some way ?

I like a lot this map, Mr. k.

The only thing that I dont like very much is the white area around the names of the countrys. I think is nicer hide a little more the names, like in the world´s classic map.

One question for Hairingtons: This prhase of the war and the honor... Who is the author

ayame:

the man in the photo>the great Winston Churchill, do a google search he has some of the greatest quotes you'll ever read. i could change it everyday!

I agree with pristella, people would like the map more if you put the more recognizeable names on it like sparta and athens and thebes

maybe you could make them territory names, instead of like central greece or western greece or whatever. but i dont really know where they were located.

Point is it wouldn't make any sense. All the territories are named after the geographic locations.

I'm considering naming the one continent Athens, though.

But Athen's territory is known as Attica, and Sparta is in akonia. Its not that uncommonly known. I can't rename Sparta's continent though, cause its Peloponesos... And well, thats what it is. Thats the most clear-cut continent name in the entire map. Naming it something else would just be incorrect.

Do whatever you must to get rid of the 'directional area' continents!

--Andy

Will do. Haven't been working on it lately though cause i'm away for the weekend, just stopping by to see what you guys are up to every once in a while. I'll get around to finishing up the map during the week.

Haha, I thought I wasn't gonna get around to doing this map until next week because I knew I have so much to do during this week... I guess I don't know the powers of my own procrastination well enough. So here is it:



http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i125/ ... elarge.jpg - large version

Unless anyone has some major complaints, its pretty much done.

looks good to me, but i think the legend is a bit difficult to read. Maybe a more grayish color would help the words stand out a bit more.