Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby HighlanderAttack on Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:36 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:Has a map ever been pulled back into BETA status? I think with the recent changes and talks of new changes, perhaps it should be done with this one...

There was nothing wrong with the map. It was, IMHO, one of the best maps on the site. Then, a single person complained about it (and not even eloquently or in great detail) and for some inexplicable reason based on that ONE incoherent complaint, the map was changed? And now you think it needs a full-scale revamp because of one single unecessary change that can easily be reversed?




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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:04 pm

Dukasaur wrote:Then, a single person complained about it (and not even eloquently or in great detail) and for some inexplicable reason based on that ONE incoherent complaint, the map was changed?


Sucks but what can you do? None of you people are showing up in the foundry to give any feedback anymore, so we, the mapmakers, have to go by what we get.

If you would give feedback regularly, instead of only showing up when you want to complain about something, then maybe we wouldn't have to be guessing what people want, based on a single person's feedback.
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby patrickaa317 on Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:08 pm

natty_dread wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:Then, a single person complained about it (and not even eloquently or in great detail) and for some inexplicable reason based on that ONE incoherent complaint, the map was changed?


Sucks but what can you do? None of you people are showing up in the foundry to give any feedback anymore, so we, the mapmakers, have to go by what we get.

If you would give feedback regularly, instead of only showing up when you want to complain about something, then maybe we wouldn't have to be guessing what people want, based on a single person's feedback.


If noone says anything, you should assume they like it the way it is. Should I go to all my favorite maps discussion boards right now and post that I like them the way they are to avoid changes? Would it help if everyone did that?

Once a map goes live, don't change it unless there is a lot of negative feedback or some serious flaws with it.
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:31 pm

patrickaa317 wrote:If noone says anything, you should assume they like it the way it is.


You're totally missing the point here.

Someone did say something, and no one else said anything to the contrary. These changes don't happen instantly here, any one of you could have came here when the change was suggested and posted your opinion. Since no one did, how should the mapmakers know that there are people that won't like the change? We're not mind readers.

All we're asking is a little co-operation, and that people stop taking the Foundry for granted, as some kind of mapmaking machine that just spews out maps automatically... we're just people here, and we try to offer to the CC population what it wants. If no one's here to tell us what that is, we have little options but to make educated guesses. Sometimes they go wrong, and that's unfortunate, but it could be avoided if more people would show up to discuss the changes in the first place...
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby patrickaa317 on Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:15 pm

natty_dread wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:If noone says anything, you should assume they like it the way it is.


You're totally missing the point here.

Someone did say something, and no one else said anything to the contrary. These changes don't happen instantly here, any one of you could have came here when the change was suggested and posted your opinion. Since no one did, how should the mapmakers know that there are people that won't like the change? We're not mind readers.

All we're asking is a little co-operation, and that people stop taking the Foundry for granted, as some kind of mapmaking machine that just spews out maps automatically... we're just people here, and we try to offer to the CC population what it wants. If no one's here to tell us what that is, we have little options but to make educated guesses. Sometimes they go wrong, and that's unfortunate, but it could be avoided if more people would show up to discuss the changes in the first place...


I can accept that to a certain extent but if it goes forever without a lot of discussion behind it, would it be wrong for one to assume that the change didn't make the cut?
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby pamoa on Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:11 am

wow it's hot in here
maybe my humble opinion could help
as mapmaker when I had some major change issue
I used to pm all the main contributor to my map thread
eventually 2 or 3 dropped in and gave me more feedback
very useful and reassuring

I didn't read all the thread back
but I feel unease to come back on a map started 2 years ago
and quenched since 8 month now
but it may be justified
I don't understand much of gameplay issue
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby ManBungalow on Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:45 am

I just read pamoa's post above
as if it were a poem
but now I can't stop doing so
and it's really quite annoying

With time perhaps this curse shall falter
Until...uh, something I will alter
To add something to this thread
I don't know what's going on
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby HighlanderAttack on Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:35 pm

natty_dread wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:If noone says anything, you should assume they like it the way it is.


You're totally missing the point here.

Someone did say something, and no one else said anything to the contrary. These changes don't happen instantly here, any one of you could have came here when the change was suggested and posted your opinion. Since no one did, how should the mapmakers know that there are people that won't like the change? We're not mind readers.

All we're asking is a little co-operation, and that people stop taking the Foundry for granted, as some kind of mapmaking machine that just spews out maps automatically... we're just people here, and we try to offer to the CC population what it wants. If no one's here to tell us what that is, we have little options but to make educated guesses. Sometimes they go wrong, and that's unfortunate, but it could be avoided if more people would show up to discuss the changes in the first place...




Really so where was this big discussion about changing a finalized map?

How are we supposed to even get an idea that this was going to happen?

Concept: When I sign into CC I see a nice area under the home tab that lists things going on. Making a major change without letting people know it is going to happen? Give us a chance to give input.

So really how many great minds decided to give you an opinion on changing this map--which totally sucks for 1v1 play now? Was it one, two or three? A large amount of the CC population in a dictators world.

I suggest that every map has code added that gives me the start--hell add in ten extra armies for Highlander--that would make me happy.

If there are less than three objections in the next five days I expect this to be implemented.

Thank you in advance
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby natty dread on Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:52 pm

HighlanderAttack wrote:Really so where was this big discussion about changing a finalized map?


You're also missing the point. If you're not here to give your opinion when the change is being discussed, you have only yourself to blame. And if no one is here to give their opinion, we have no choice but to go by those opinions we do receive, plus our own judgement.

And I'm not just talking about you personally, but in general, everyone of the CC population who cares about maps... you want everything to work like clockwork here, and never mess anything up, but you don't care enough that you'd participate and help the process. The CC population is like an abusive husband when it comes to the foundry: You expect the meals to be cooked and the house to be cleaned, but you're not giving anything to the relationship, and if we mess up sometimes, you yell at us...

The bottom line is, if you only show up to complain when something doesn't go the way you like, then your experience of the foundry is bound to be a negative one.

HighlanderAttack wrote:So really how many great minds decided to give you an opinion on changing this map--which totally sucks for 1v1 play now? Was it one, two or three? A large amount of the CC population in a dictators world.


We would have listened to your opinion, but you didn't care enough to show up until you had something to complain about. Of course, it's easier to post when you can whip your self into a righteous frenzy of vengeance against those who have wronged you... sadly, that doesn't often lead to any constructive discourse.
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby deantursx on Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:15 pm

please change this back. it used to be a very fun 1v1 map!
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby patrickaa317 on Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:42 pm

How many people speaking out against this change will it take to change it back? You modified it, we showed up and voiced our opinion, now change it back.
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby HighlanderAttack on Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:00 am

natty_dread wrote:
HighlanderAttack wrote:Really so where was this big discussion about changing a finalized map?


You're also missing the point. If you're not here to give your opinion when the change is being discussed, you have only yourself to blame. And if no one is here to give their opinion, we have no choice but to go by those opinions we do receive, plus our own judgement.

And I'm not just talking about you personally, but in general, everyone of the CC population who cares about maps... you want everything to work like clockwork here, and never mess anything up, but you don't care enough that you'd participate and help the process. The CC population is like an abusive husband when it comes to the foundry: You expect the meals to be cooked and the house to be cleaned, but you're not giving anything to the relationship, and if we mess up sometimes, you yell at us...

The bottom line is, if you only show up to complain when something doesn't go the way you like, then your experience of the foundry is bound to be a negative one.

HighlanderAttack wrote:So really how many great minds decided to give you an opinion on changing this map--which totally sucks for 1v1 play now? Was it one, two or three? A large amount of the CC population in a dictators world.


We would have listened to your opinion, but you didn't care enough to show up until you had something to complain about. Of course, it's easier to post when you can whip your self into a righteous frenzy of vengeance against those who have wronged you... sadly, that doesn't often lead to any constructive discourse.



You truly don't know what you are talking about.

Not only do I play every map that is in beta, but I leave my thoughts as well. Sometimes good thoughts and sometimes bad.

There is no reason to check on the status of maps that have left beta--based on what most people think I am guessing --when they are out of beta they are not getting changed--especially without warning and especially because on person thought so--lol

Get off your power trip--you are making a fool out of yourself and the CC foundry process
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby HighlanderAttack on Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:35 am

thenobodies80 wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:
ben79 wrote:i was wondering if it was possible to have the same deployement as on the king's court map ... i played a 1 vs 1 on clandemonium and it took at least an hour to play it
i mean having only 2 starting positions instead of 5

An hour for the whole game, or an hour for a turn?

I've had 1v1s on Clandemonium go more than two weeks, but even the most complicated turns didn't take more than 10 or 12 minutes along the way.


Damn! Your post has reminded me that I promised that fix to Kab long time ago.
Kab, I'll do it this weekend. Sorry for the delay....i totally forgot it. :oops:

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One person asked for this change and it is done just like that--now that is a real joke--I decided just to check how much it really takes to make a change after a map is quenched--true joke
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby natty dread on Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:36 am

HighlanderAttack wrote:You truly don't know what you are talking about.


Oh damn, you're probably right. I only have 7 map medals and hang around in the foundry on a daily basis. It's not like I know anything about how anything works around here. Sorry I opened my mouth.

HighlanderAttack wrote:Not only do I play every map that is in beta, but I leave my thoughts as well. Sometimes good thoughts and sometimes bad.


And like I said, I wasn't talking about just you personally, but the CC population in general. Either way, yes, you leave feedback on some beta maps, and that's great and much appreciated. Really, thanks for all your feedback. But when's the last time you've commented on a map before it went in beta?

HighlanderAttack wrote:There is no reason to check on the status of maps that have left beta--based on what most people think I am guessing --when they are out of beta they are not getting changed--especially without warning and especially because on person thought so--lol


The fact that a map is quenched does not mean it's impervious to change. This has always been so. Usually, before major changes are made, announcements, threads, etc. are made to gather as much discussion as possible. For minor changes this doesn't always happen.

It's not a perfect system, no one's claiming that. Sometimes mistakes happen. But if you want to change that, the way to do that isn't to come over and start shouting how we're all incompetent assholes who just mess up your games out of spite.

HighlanderAttack wrote:Get off your power trip--you are making a fool out of yourself and the CC foundry process


Well, I've been trying to discuss cordially with you and to give you honest answers. If that's not something you appreciate, perhaps you'd like a shouting match instead?

Also, I don't know what power trip you speak of. I have very little power in the foundry, I'm not a CA or anything... just a mapmaker with a bad habit of sticking my nose into places it isn't wanted.
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Re: Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

Postby thenobodies80 on Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:55 am

If you're going to post to complain about the change about this map, please take a look here --> viewtopic.php?f=127&t=160307&p=3509315#p3509315

The map will be changed back soon.

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