Cyprus [Quenched]

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Re: Cyprus (23rd June) New version!

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:45 am

I kind of miss the British bases... though they appear on the map in gameplay, they are not designated as such. I woul liek to see them designated somehow.
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Re: Cyprus (23rd June) New version!

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:30 am

theBastard wrote:yes, but this only valid if you hold (with greek towns) also any region. but no when you hold 7 greek towns as = 2 from one region, 3 from second region and 2 from third...


I agree. As said i'm open to change the numbers of territories needed :)
The idea is to simulate a sort of "political influence" / "people support" that gives to you additional troops to help you to take the control of the regions.
In the same time i must say that it looks a bit stupid if you have 7 regions and you don't try to take a zone bonus, specially if you think that each player starts the game with a single territory. The territory bonus seems more easy to hold to me and it should come before the other during a game.

About the two British Military Bases i forgot to write it on the map, but sure they can attack each other :)
I'll update it later, when back home

Thanks again ;)

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Re: Cyprus (23rd June) New version!

Postby theBastard on Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:29 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:In the same time i must say that it looks a bit stupid if you have 7 regions and you don't try to take a zone bonus, specially if you think that each player starts the game with a single territory. The territory bonus seems more easy to hold to me and it should come before the other during a game.


I agree but no evrybody play intelligent :lol: or no everybody has lucky...
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Re: Cyprus (23rd June) New version!

Postby rockandrull on Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:00 pm

I think you go a little impassable crazy....and only plus 1 for 5/7 greek/turkish cities, respectfully?
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Re: Cyprus (23rd June) New version!

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:29 pm

the original idea was without the factions bonus and honestly i was happy with it, but i've added it to follow the suggestions.
Personally i want to keep this map with low bonuses, very low.
The big impassable is a wall that separates the two parts also in real life (for what i know actually they're planning to destroy it).

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Re: Cyprus (23rd June) New version!

Postby ManBungalow on Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:08 am

That font is a pain to read.
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Re: Cyprus (23rd June) New version!

Postby porkenbeans on Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:26 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:the original idea was without the factions bonus and honestly i was happy with it, but i've added it to follow the suggestions.
Personally i want to keep this map with low bonuses, very low.
The big impassable is a wall that separates the two parts also in real life (for what i know actually they're planning to destroy it).
Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. A small map should have small bonuses.
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Re: Cyprus (23rd June) New version!

Postby eigenvector on Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:46 am

Hi,

I liked the version with the British bases more, too. It was much neater. One more graphical comment: the sea looks a bit dreary, maybe yu could make it brighter and/or add some graphics in the sea?

Anyway, this is a cool project, keep up the good work! :)
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Re: Cyprus (23rd June) New version!

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:57 pm

I've made some changes following the suggestions given:
  • Factions bonus is now +1 every 4 and +1 every 5 instead of +1 for 5 or 7.
  • Faction bonus is displayed with a minimap --> Is it clear?
  • Removed the old minimap for a bonus list, I've also decided for different values for district bonuses.
  • Readded the british flag and a visual sea connection between the two BMB
  • More redeable font

Circles on district capitals have a purely indicative purpose (starting positions)

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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby natty dread on Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:52 pm

Looks interesting. Although the starting positions that are in the smaller 3-territory bonuses might have an advantage... easier to grab bonuses in the start.
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:10 pm

natty_dread wrote:Looks interesting. Although the starting positions that are in the smaller 3-territory bonuses might have an advantage... easier to grab bonuses in the start.


the idea was:
kokkina covers paphos
paphos covers limassol
morphou covers kyrenia
Although i know that in some cases it could be a problem
Anyway i can change them in the gameplay workshop :)
Going to post here....viewtopic.php?f=63&t=105502

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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby theBastard on Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:21 pm

the new version looks fine. maybe natty is right about bonuses advantages, but it could be balanced by different numbers of armies in neutral territories...
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby rockandrull on Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:49 am

Are the military bases part of the bonuses?
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:11 am

rockandrull wrote:Are the military bases part of the bonuses?


No they aren't. They are both killer neutrals.

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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby Gilligan on Sun Jul 04, 2010 7:36 pm

It seems like some of the starting positions are uneven in comparison to the others.

Example:

Morphou -> Kyrenia = 6 neutral
Paphos -> Limassol = 3 neutral
Famagusta -> Larnaca = 2 neutral
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:24 am

After discussing with Gilligan, we decided to remove starting positions.
All the coloured regions on the map are starting regions not coded and totally random, like Feudal War.
Now we need to change neutrals or move around some of those starting regions to balance the map....that is something that we'd like to focus as soon as the map is moved into the GP stage.

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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby natty dread on Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:19 am

thenobodies80 wrote:After discussing with Gilligan, we decided to remove starting positions.
All the coloured regions on the map are starting regions not coded and totally random, like Feudal War.


It won't really make a difference except for 2 player games.

And manual deploy...
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:51 am

natty_dread wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:After discussing with Gilligan, we decided to remove starting positions.
All the coloured regions on the map are starting regions not coded and totally random, like Feudal War.


It won't really make a difference except for 2 player games.

And manual deploy...

No, it does instead if SP are in pairs, also because it would make little sense otherwise (except for a 1vs1)

If we code 4 pairs (4x2 terr) of starting positions, with game with 4 or less players each player will receive the same pair of territories (we can't say only which pair), with no coded starting positions it's totally random.
The main problem using starting positions is that the most balanced configuration of pairing exclude the possibilty that in a 1vs1 players are divided in the two sides from the start. ( i can assure you that i've tried a ton of pairs)
But without SP this could happen...and we like the idea :)

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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:55 pm

Looking good, time to move on!
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby Evil DIMwit on Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:47 am

Your starting points are way too close together. It'll be too easy to eliminate another player before they've taken their turn. They're also not very well balanced vis-a-vis the bonus areas: Whoever starts with Paphos or Limassol has a much easier time getting a bonus than someone who starts with Famagusta. Add to that the fact that two of the starting positions aren't required for any victory condition, which gives them something in the way of an advantage, and the whole thing reeks of imbalance.
I can't really think of a solution that doesn't involve dividing the island into a lot more territories than it has now.
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:53 pm

To be honest i prefer to see this map binned right now than adding more regions. I can move cities, change neutral values but i will not transform this map in an another medium size boring map.
What i could do is to re-work the gameplay, making all region capitals neutrals at the start, rising the count of starting neutral to 8 (Limassol, Larnaca, Kyrenia, Paphos, Famagusta, Nicosia and the British Military Bases) ; everything else comes in the pot.
The starting regions will be 20 , with 2 regions for 8 players etc etc.
Quick eliminations can be prevented working on neutrals, even if i think that the possibility of being eliminated at the beginning is not greater than when you play on Luxemburg.
If it's better for you i can start to work on this different gameplay schema ;)

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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby natty dread on Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:20 pm

Ok this is just my opinion, but I never quite understood why did you suddenly decide to make this into a conquest map... personally I think the map was doing fine with random drop.

There's just so much mixing of concepts here: you have a small sized conquest map (starting positions) with the bonus system of a standard map (bonus regions) which is going to make the gameplay extremely difficult to balance. It seems to me that the smaller the map, the more important it is to balance the starting assets of all players.

If you really want to pursue this concept, the only feasible solution I can think of right now is minimizing the differences between bonus areas, so that each starting point has approximately equal chances of both taking and holding a bonus.
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby The Bison King on Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:27 pm

Ok this is just my opinion, but I never quite understood why did you suddenly decide to make this into a conquest map... personally I think the map was doing fine with random drop.


I think there are aspects about what you have done that are solid and others that are uneeded. I'm not entirely sure what "conquest map" specifically refers too but I'm asumeing that it has to do with starting locations and everything else be neutral. If so I agree with Natty. You could keep the victory condition, and lose that start locations in favor of random placment. I think that would make it a little more focused and would iron out the problem of unfair placement.
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:45 pm

Ok, i'll post an update with a random drop asap ;)
What values do you think are good for the 8 neutrals? (Limassol, Larnaca, Kyrenia, Paphos, Famagusta, Nicosia and the British Military Bases)

I thought about 2 for the BMB, 4 for regions capitals (Limassol, Larnaca, Kyrenia, Paphos, Famagusta) and 5 for Nicosia. Everything else start random with 3 troops.
Sounds good?

ps. Maybe Famagusta with 3 instead of 4 because, like evil dimwit said, it's harder to take?

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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby Evil DIMwit on Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:52 pm

Yes, I suppose making this map not be conquer style is another solution.

Famagusta is harder to start with than Limassol or Paphos or Kyrenia, because it's not part of a small bonus region. So I suppose it would make sense if Famagusta and Lanarca both started with slightly fewer neutrals.
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