Cyprus [Quenched]

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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:24 am

After discussing with Gilligan, we decided to remove starting positions.
All the coloured regions on the map are starting regions not coded and totally random, like Feudal War.
Now we need to change neutrals or move around some of those starting regions to balance the map....that is something that we'd like to focus as soon as the map is moved into the GP stage.

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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby natty dread on Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:19 am

thenobodies80 wrote:After discussing with Gilligan, we decided to remove starting positions.
All the coloured regions on the map are starting regions not coded and totally random, like Feudal War.


It won't really make a difference except for 2 player games.

And manual deploy...
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:51 am

natty_dread wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:After discussing with Gilligan, we decided to remove starting positions.
All the coloured regions on the map are starting regions not coded and totally random, like Feudal War.


It won't really make a difference except for 2 player games.

And manual deploy...

No, it does instead if SP are in pairs, also because it would make little sense otherwise (except for a 1vs1)

If we code 4 pairs (4x2 terr) of starting positions, with game with 4 or less players each player will receive the same pair of territories (we can't say only which pair), with no coded starting positions it's totally random.
The main problem using starting positions is that the most balanced configuration of pairing exclude the possibilty that in a 1vs1 players are divided in the two sides from the start. ( i can assure you that i've tried a ton of pairs)
But without SP this could happen...and we like the idea :)

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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:55 pm

Looking good, time to move on!
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby Evil DIMwit on Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:47 am

Your starting points are way too close together. It'll be too easy to eliminate another player before they've taken their turn. They're also not very well balanced vis-a-vis the bonus areas: Whoever starts with Paphos or Limassol has a much easier time getting a bonus than someone who starts with Famagusta. Add to that the fact that two of the starting positions aren't required for any victory condition, which gives them something in the way of an advantage, and the whole thing reeks of imbalance.
I can't really think of a solution that doesn't involve dividing the island into a lot more territories than it has now.
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:53 pm

To be honest i prefer to see this map binned right now than adding more regions. I can move cities, change neutral values but i will not transform this map in an another medium size boring map.
What i could do is to re-work the gameplay, making all region capitals neutrals at the start, rising the count of starting neutral to 8 (Limassol, Larnaca, Kyrenia, Paphos, Famagusta, Nicosia and the British Military Bases) ; everything else comes in the pot.
The starting regions will be 20 , with 2 regions for 8 players etc etc.
Quick eliminations can be prevented working on neutrals, even if i think that the possibility of being eliminated at the beginning is not greater than when you play on Luxemburg.
If it's better for you i can start to work on this different gameplay schema ;)

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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby natty dread on Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:20 pm

Ok this is just my opinion, but I never quite understood why did you suddenly decide to make this into a conquest map... personally I think the map was doing fine with random drop.

There's just so much mixing of concepts here: you have a small sized conquest map (starting positions) with the bonus system of a standard map (bonus regions) which is going to make the gameplay extremely difficult to balance. It seems to me that the smaller the map, the more important it is to balance the starting assets of all players.

If you really want to pursue this concept, the only feasible solution I can think of right now is minimizing the differences between bonus areas, so that each starting point has approximately equal chances of both taking and holding a bonus.
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby The Bison King on Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:27 pm

Ok this is just my opinion, but I never quite understood why did you suddenly decide to make this into a conquest map... personally I think the map was doing fine with random drop.


I think there are aspects about what you have done that are solid and others that are uneeded. I'm not entirely sure what "conquest map" specifically refers too but I'm asumeing that it has to do with starting locations and everything else be neutral. If so I agree with Natty. You could keep the victory condition, and lose that start locations in favor of random placment. I think that would make it a little more focused and would iron out the problem of unfair placement.
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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:45 pm

Ok, i'll post an update with a random drop asap ;)
What values do you think are good for the 8 neutrals? (Limassol, Larnaca, Kyrenia, Paphos, Famagusta, Nicosia and the British Military Bases)

I thought about 2 for the BMB, 4 for regions capitals (Limassol, Larnaca, Kyrenia, Paphos, Famagusta) and 5 for Nicosia. Everything else start random with 3 troops.
Sounds good?

ps. Maybe Famagusta with 3 instead of 4 because, like evil dimwit said, it's harder to take?

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Re: Cyprus V2.0 (28th June)

Postby Evil DIMwit on Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:52 pm

Yes, I suppose making this map not be conquer style is another solution.

Famagusta is harder to start with than Limassol or Paphos or Kyrenia, because it's not part of a small bonus region. So I suppose it would make sense if Famagusta and Lanarca both started with slightly fewer neutrals.
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Cyprus 3.0

Postby thenobodies80 on Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:12 am

Click image to enlarge.
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Changes:
  • No conquest
  • District Capitals start neutral, Kyrenia, Paphos and Limassol start with 4, Larnaca and Famagusta start with 3, Nicosia start with 5
  • Factions Bonus, greek bonus requires 6 cities and turkish bonus requires 5 cities
  • District Bonuses, Famagusta 4 and Nicosia 7

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Re: Cyprus V3.0

Postby eigenvector on Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:11 pm

I don't get it - where are the cities?
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Re: Cyprus V3.0

Postby theBastard on Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:56 pm

now map looks very clear. maybe you could accentuate the capitals? (with small flags or any icon or another colour of font)...
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Re: Cyprus V3.0

Postby Industrial Helix on Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:00 pm

Yeah... where are the cities?
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Re: Cyprus V3.0

Postby thenobodies80 on Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:09 pm

All small details (like cities) will be added in the graphics workshop, for now graphics (and an open mind) are good enough to understand how the map will work imo.
Please try to focus on gameplay for now :)

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