Conquer Club

I'm thinking she's looking about done. To note some changes.

-the mountains in Skyrim were altered to give skyrim some internal regions.

-country added to red to give 48 countries (i think)

-new bridges!

-Bonus values.

What do you think

I like the way it looks. I'm not very good at evaluting bonuses so i'll leave that up to someone else. One thing that i would suggest would be to fix the fonts of the territory names. They arnt the easiest to read, especially in summerset Isle. Maybe making the text bold, and changing the color to something easier to read. Changing the actuall font type might be good too. but besides that i think it looks good.

This is looking very good. I do think that Cyrodiil's bonus looks a bit high, though. I'd recommend adding a sea route between Gidean and Murkwood or one between Colovia and Sentinel/Rihad. Possibly even both. I think that would still fit with the Black Marsh's bonus of 3, although it might arguably raise Hammerfell to 5.

Also, what order is the legend in? It might make it a bit easier to use if it was ordered by how the countries were laid out on the map: Hf, S, Mw, C, SI, E, BM.

yea and bout the visual look of the legeng....i like the black background. But maybe make it smaller so that its not under that countinent. and add some texture or inner or outer glow to give it some depth. And work on lining up the territory names in the legend

in the map that you posted in the embassy thread the grey countries but the red writing was hard for me to read. but it looks fine here.

the map looks good but shount black marsh and symmerset isle be worth the same

Possibly, I guess the only thing that really puts it above summerset isle is that it can be attacked from 3 regions as opposed to summerset isle, which can be attacked from only two. I'm not sure if thats enough of a reason, but thats it, heh.

o i only see two

it can be atacket but u olnly need to defend 2

yea its a tough call. I can see it going either way. It depends how important you think number of attacking borders are. It will be fine either way.

I like, I like. The one thing that you could do is spruce up your legend alittle I know that there is plenty of inspiration for a fancier design, the one you have now is functional but others will have a problem with that.

I like it very much, including the bridges, and its difficult.

About the legend, its good too, maybe you could change only the black background.

And the bonuses need a little discussion. For example, Hammerfell bonus is too low. Can someone (maybe you, Andy) put the analysis here?

I mostly put those values in semi-arbitrarily, just to get some discussion going on what they should be. The main factor that i though about was how many countries you have to defend to keep it. And i kind of though about what other map's values are like. Nothing scientific. Nothing is even remotely set in stone though, What do you think they should look like?

Lets see what I can run up the flag pole...**turns up his ACDC**

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~~Visual Appeal~~

---The legend is alright, perhaps something other than just plain black ground. I feel that it sticks out too much from the hole of the map...and it looks like it's a layer under neath the map. It is seemingly burrowing under Hammerfell. I love the font, I think it works well with the current idea of the map. Added visuals always help the map, much like the Ireland map that is being created at the Discword map. Perhaps something can be added onto the map or into the legend to spruce it up, but those are more minor after thoughts to be done only when the major issues at hand are no longer there. One more question is there any particular reason for the order in the legend as it is now? Seems rather sporadic and random

---Colors are interesting--I like them. Though I Summerset Isle's red on green is a little hard on the eyes. I think there is a nice amount of texture for the continents. But the ocean seems like a stagnant pool for mosqouites to breed in. Currently it has no feel, perhaps a larger range in the varient in the texture would help move the appeal higher. Also maybe a gradient of some sorts, different shades of blue, would help make the water feel more like water. Also distinguishing the rivers in the continent from the water outside of the mainland would help in the visual appeal department.

---The mountains I like, they feel jagged and uncrossable Quick suggestion for them, extend the Stormhold-Narsis border so we all know that there is no attack route (also look close a the Stormhold, Gidean, and Thorn border. Looks as if Thorn could almost attack Gidean). The bridges work well for the map, and I usually hate bridge graphics, but I think they work rather well. I'm not sure how I feel on the white lines connecting various points on the map. Perhaps I'll come back to those with further consideration and thought.

---Try to keep countries from coming to right angle borders, I.E. Fang Lair, Skaven, Sentinel, and Rihad. Could say Fang Lair attack Sentinel? Hard to tell, take out the 4 corner there.

---Is there any particular reason why some of the circles are larger than others? I think keeping them uniform is a must, otherwise it detracts from the over all look of the map.

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~~~Nitty Gritty~~~

---Morrowind~~ 7 Countries; 3 Borders; 2 Attack routes. Morrowind has the difficult dilemma of dealing with a one way border. That makes it interesting, due to the fact that if you hold Morrowind you will always have 3 Borders. Makes exspansion though from here, because of the mountains, but I think as it stands I think 4 isn't so far off because of the reasons.

---Black Marsh~~ 5 Countries; 2 Borders; 3 Attack routes. As it stands on this map I think Black Marsh is doing rather well. A bonus of 3 seems justifiable, though going with 2 might be a better option.

---Hammerfell~~ 9 Countries; 3 Borders; 4 Attack Routes. A bonus of 4 seems perhaps a little low if Morrowind is also kept at 4, perhaps a boost to 5.

---Elsweyr~~ 7 Countries; 3 Borders; 4 Attack routes. A bonus of 4 seems more like it, if you compare Black Marsh to it. But if you make it and Hammerfell 4 then perhaps Morrowind needs changing.

---Summerset Isle~~ 5 Countries; 2 Borders; 2 Attack routes. Rather nearly identical to Black Marsh. This I would stick with a bonus of 2 here, and look at making these two similar in bonus.

---Cyrodiil~~ 10 countries; 4 Borders; 4 Attack routes. This continent is usual. Usually the central continents are hard to hold early on, but as it stands this one seems actually rather possible to. You can easily limit it's borders down to 3 by taking Dune, and you have a great advantage against Morrowind. An 8 bonus of outrageous. Definitely nothing that high. Maybe a 6 due to the number of countries and borders-to possible borders, maybe 7.

---Skyrim~~ 6 Countries; 4 Borders; 4 Attack routes. This is an interesting little continent with many mountains. Early on it will always have 4 borders, making it somewhat difficult to hold, though it has a smaller number of countries. I think 5 seems applicable if Hammerfell is boosted, they would be somewhat similar (in the sense of trading off less countries for a border).

---And I count 49 countries...one country needs to exit, perhaps in Hammerfell. That is, if I did my math correctly.

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>>>>Final Words<<<<

Over all the visuals are nice but some work is still needed in that department. Bonuses need to be adjusted and reworked. Cyrodill is a power continent that can throw a lot of weight a round. Tougher continents seem to be Morrowind and Skyrim, other continents have their own nuances. It's getting there.


--Andy

A few people have mentioned the legend going beneath the land. I haven't really had a problem with it, i don't know, i sorta liked it. I'm having some trouble fixing it, i don't really want to go around change sizes of everything. Would just erasing what goes beneath the river suffice?

Also, as i was trying to make cyrodiil a little more reasonable of a continent, it appears as though i ended up making it very defendable for being "that central continent" What do you think of completely opening up the border betweeen riften and Velothi mts.

I put in some graphics and spruced up the legend. I'm gonna take a look at fixing up the water before i post it up. Maybe i'll finish it tonight. We'll see how much more time i can spend not studying for finals this week.

Opening the border would help alleviate the problem. Though perhaps looking into reversing the arrow so that Velothi Mts. can attack one of the various other countries in Cyrodiil might also be another option, giving the advantage to the smaller continent rather than the large. Doing that would knock Morrowind down to 7 Countries, 2 Borders; 3 Attack routes. But doing that might make too many little continents for the map.

I'm torn, but I think I'm currently leaning to an open border for each, but I thought I would throw out the other idea for options.

And erasing the border underneath the various portions of land could work, though it might make the legend look shotty depending on how the visuals impact the final. Maybe shrinking the legend would help the problem.

--Andy

Would it work to separate the map title from the continent bonuses? Say, a black box in the upper left corner with "Tamriel" in it, and the other black box where it is now with the continents in it. Or would that just look silly?

Hm, that could work, though I usually favor keeping the title and the legend rather connected. Also depending on where he placed visuals and graphics, doing what Jota suggested might be near impossible.

--Andy

i love the over all feel or the map.... keep up the good work..

Here's where i'm at right now. I'm not sure how to change the rivers and the water. I'll take a look at doing that later on. But here's where i'm at with the llegend. I'm liking how its looking. I think i did most of whats been suggested. I'm going to go through it again tomorrow probably. Just wanted to give you guys something to talk about. Keep up the comments.

Don't mind the flags. If you care to see what they're all about check out the embassies thread in this forum. Its a fun little thing i'm considering. Not necessarily going to be implemented.

Also, those bonus values are still arbitrary.

you should draw in a little shadow for the flags to make it appear they are standing up.

Very very good...

About bonuses, I think you could change the following:
Skyrim - 4
Hammerfell - 5
Elsweyr - 4

About the flags... if you will mantain them, I can think about better locations. Arent Fang Lair and Sancre Tor connected, are they?

Right now, they aren't connected. I'd write more, but i'm late for a drug test.

stomper you drugie. Whos pee did you get this time? lol

Hammerfell could be worth 5, but i don't know how i feel about it being worth more than Skyrim.

I think skyrim would be a very difficult continent to hold. Although it only has 6 countries, 4 of them border another, touching three different continents, and Hammerfell has 8 regions but only three boarder countries. Also, its very mountainous and thus limiting.

Elsweyr could be 4, i'm fine with that. Its butt to butt with cyrodiil, which isn't fun.

How does the legend look now with going under the land. i just did some erasing, nothing fancy. Also, note that morrowind's border opening up with cyrodiil. I like it better that way, the arrow was kind of an eyesore.

About the Flags. The main reason i put it in Fang Lair was because of the size of the country, but since i took out the one region above wayrest, i could always just make that a little bigger and put it back up there. It is kind of close to Elsweyr.