Re: Thyseneal: V 3.6 ::REVAMP::

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Re: Thyseneal: *Poll please vote*

Postby The Bison King on Wed May 05, 2010 2:52 pm

If Tuskaroja is the Naval power, why does it only connect to one territory by sea. Logically, it should connect to the most territories by sea. Perhaps even, one way attacks.


Sorry about that that was a typo. That paragraph was about Tytheria. Tytheria is the Naval authority I went back and fixed it.

it's groupings like Ifnal that are going to be taken advantage of to win the game. It's a quick and small bonus with a high yield of 4... which is way to high. I'd say two at best. Perhaps given its coast line the Naval Powers could be able to make their presence known there?


I agree it looks that way but after playing enough games on this map I think you'll find that Ifnal isn't as easy to hold as it looks. It sits in an area that is extremely busy and prone to changing hands, and because it looks like a quick road to victory it usually stays contested. It's part of what keeps the games interesting. I think reducing the bonus to 3 is reasonable, 2 however, would be too low.

Itherania - reunite the old kingdom for a bonus? Similar to the Holy Roman Empire goal of reuniting the Roman Empire?


exactly. Itherania was the name of the old empire.

Carpinthia makes lots of sense. Strong land army so high bonus, though perhaps the border should be reduced by a territory to make it more defensible.


maybe not a bad idea, I kind of like having regions that are difficult to keep but yield great reward.

The idea of sea routes is interesting and might be worth looking into. However, I've put a great deal of thought already into what should connect with what. It's something worth looking into, I just don't want to promote too much interconnect-ability. As in, making it so that everything is accessible from almost any where.

However maybe the idea of a +1 OR +2 Sea bonus is a thought. As in a neutral territory that is only accessable from a few regions, say Ifnal, Illarullia, Thessisamess, and Iskul, that gives you +1. Or It give you +5 or something sweet on the condition that it reverts back to 0. So you might end up losing more troops trying to take it, so it's kind of a gamble. I dunno maybe a stupid idea just a thought.
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Re: Thyseneal: *Poll please vote*

Postby TaCktiX on Thu May 06, 2010 8:35 pm

It looks like this map is well along and you've got a head on your shoulders. Add in all the background, the brief, and what-not, and we're shipping you off to the Gameplay Workshop. Now get to work on those tweaks!
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Re: Thyseneal: *Poll please vote*

Postby The Bison King on Fri May 07, 2010 1:11 am

Awesome! I'm super pumped! Since the roads version is winning I assume we'll be rolling with that that version. Thanks for the votes guys.
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Re: Thyseneal: *Poll please vote*

Postby mattattam on Fri May 07, 2010 1:50 pm

Good job Bison!
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Re: Thyseneal: *Poll please vote*

Postby The Bison King on Sat May 08, 2010 12:16 pm

Ok here's the latest version 1.3

Image

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Changes:

Solonabirsk, dropped down to 3

Ifnal, dropped down to 3

Caprinthian border adjusted, the territory Thain was extended north to protect the territory Aliskar from attacks from Rowamar.

Also a general attempt to make borders and territory names clearer.
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Re: Thyseneal: *Poll please vote*

Postby natty dread on Sat May 08, 2010 12:34 pm

Your small image looks kinda cramped... You know the limit for small image is 630x600, so you have room to increase the size a bit.
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Re: Thyseneal: *Poll please vote*

Postby mattattam on Sun May 09, 2010 3:40 am

I noticed your color tones on your map key do not match some of the colors in the actual map. Such as Skyactica in the map key is a darker purple, while in the map itself it is more of a light violet. Solonabirsk looks white in map key while in map looks blue-gray. The sea is very light as well in the map key compared to it's actual color in the map.

I hope this doesn't come across as nit-picky. I like this map and hope I can help through my feedback. Also I wanted to hear your thoughts from my post before:

My feedback on this version is I think there is too many road combinations. I feel how it is now puts more focus on the roads then on the countries. I think this could easily be resolved by taken away 1 or 2 of the road bonus's. Any 1 of the 3 in the southeast part would do. I think 6 road bonus's is enough. You may be able to get away with 7 though. Right now it's a bit much.
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Re: Thyseneal: *Poll please vote*

Postby The Bison King on Sun May 09, 2010 1:20 pm

I noticed your color tones on your map key do not match some of the colors in the actual map


No I don't think that comes across as nit picky. It's an easy fix, thanks for bringing it to my attention.

My feedback on this version is I think there is too many road combination. I feel how it is now puts more focus on the roads then on the countries. I think this could easily be resolved by taken away 1 or 2 of the road bonus's. Any 1 of the 3 in the southeast part would do. I think 6 road bonus's is enough. You may be able to get away with 7 though. Right now it's a bit much.


I feel like it kind of already is six. I don't know if this changes the way that you think of them but 2 of the existing road bonuses are just extensions of the already existing ones. If you connect Thessisamess to Hellengar it's +2 and Hellengar to Thereland it's another +2, so technically it would already be +4. I just wanted to give an extra +1 to holding the complete line. It's the same story with the northern line. Arleus to The Northern Frontier only gives you an additional +1 to the +4 you would already be receiving.

Does this change the way you think about it or do you still think there are too many?
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Re: Thyseneal: V1.3

Postby mattattam on Mon May 10, 2010 3:41 am

I feel like it kind of already is six. I don't know if this changes the way that you think of them but 2 of the existing road bonuses are just extensions of the already existing ones. If you connect Thessisamess to Hellengar it's +2 and Hellengar to Thereland it's another +2, so technically it would already be +4. I just wanted to give an extra +1 to holding the complete line. It's the same story with the northern line. Arleus to The Northern Frontier only gives you an additional +1 to the +4 you would already be receiving.

Does this change the way you think about it or do you still think there are too many?


That does change the way I see it. Now that i understand I do like that. I think it's a little confusing how you have it listed in the map key currently. I thought you would get +5 for Thessisamess -Thereland in addition to +2 for Thessisamess - Hellengar and +2 for Hellengar - Thereland for a total bonus of +9.

I think if you put it like this it would be more clear:

Thessisamess - Hellengar +2
Hellengar - Thereland +2
Thessisamess-Thereland +5 total
Chunjaris - Thereland +1
Ifnal - South Livonia +4
Arleus - Denmarn +2
Denmarn - Northern Frontier +2
Arleus - Norther Frontier +5 total
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Re: Thyseneal: V1.4

Postby The Bison King on Wed May 12, 2010 4:28 pm

Image

Image

I noticed your color tones on your map key do not match some of the colors in the actual map. Such as Skyactica in the map key is a darker purple, while in the map itself it is more of a light violet. Solonabirsk looks white in map key while in map looks blue-gray. The sea is very light as well in the map key compared to it's actual color in the map.


Fixed: actually ended up making Skyatica darker on the actual map, to make the border with Solonaborsk clearer.

think if you put it like this it would be more clear:

Thessisamess - Hellengar +2
Hellengar - Thereland +2
Thessisamess-Thereland +5 total
Chunjaris - Thereland +1
Ifnal - South Livonia +4
Arleus - Denmarn +2
Denmarn - Northern Frontier +2
Arleus - Norther Frontier +5 total


Fixed

Wondering if +4 for the South Livonia - Ifnal road bonus is too much. Thinking about dropping it to +3, what do you think?
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Re: Thyseneal: V1.3

Postby mattattam on Wed May 12, 2010 9:04 pm

Wondering if +4 for the South Livonia - Ifnal road bonus is too much. Thinking about dropping it to +3, what do you think?


I think +3 is better.
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Re: Thyseneal: V1.5

Postby The Bison King on Fri May 14, 2010 3:05 pm

Then +3 it is, also I don't know if I mentioned this but I did bump the small up to 630x421 a while ago.
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Re: Thyseneal: V1.5

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon May 17, 2010 11:51 am

Hm, this project looks promising. Just wanted to pop in and say so! I hope to be later with some deeper thoughts.


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Re: Thyseneal: V1.5

Postby mattattam on Mon May 17, 2010 4:35 pm

Hey Bison, is Dalmus going to count as an island still? There isn't anything on your map saying that it is an island.
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Re: Thyseneal: V1.5

Postby The Bison King on Mon May 17, 2010 11:04 pm

Hey Bison, is Dalmus going to count as an island still? There isn't anything on your map saying that it is an island.


No there isn't anything "Saying" that Dalmus is an Island territory, however it does count as one. I have the shape of the territory above the comment "+3 for any 3 islands" however that may not be very recognizable. I could write the names of the territories under the shapes or just write (Including Dalmus) next to is. This really is more of a graphic concern. Most of my thoughts have been turning to graphics, which brings me to my next point...

The gameplay is pretty much where I want it at this point. tomorrow I'm going to play another alpha testing game, and I'm going to try to get another one in this weekend. So, If you have any thoughts or opinions concerning the gameplay please voice them now so that I can take them into consideration as I play the next couple of games.

Like I said the gameplay is pretty much where I want it and the only thing I'm really still toying around with is the quantity of neutral territories. Right now only Rolloland is neutral with 3 on it. I have considered making all the Islands neutral but I didn't really like that when I played with it. Perhaps only Dalmus and Tyross could be neutral, to establish an early territorial boundary... but it might be kinda weird to have only a few Islands be neutral. Thoughts opinions?
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Re: Thyseneal: V1.5

Postby MarshalNey on Tue May 18, 2010 12:45 am

Don't make all the islands neutral. I think they will be ignored as you hinted in earlier playtesting.
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Re: Thyseneal: V1.5

Postby mattattam on Tue May 18, 2010 4:41 pm

The Bison King wrote: Right now only Rolloland is neutral with 3 on it. I have considered making all the Islands neutral but I didn't really like that when I played with it. Perhaps only Dalmus and Tyross could be neutral, to establish an early territorial boundary... but it might be kinda weird to have only a few Islands be neutral. Thoughts opinions?


Yeah you can solve Dalmus being an island in graphics...

Okay I have 3 thoughts on gameplay. First off I don't think Rolland should be neutral. I don't think it will be a very sought after territory since it is a part of Ifnal.

I have an idea for the Rollaland territory. What if you make Rollaland a bonus by itself. Say a +1 Auto Deploy bonus. You can have it start 4 neutral, and I also recommend making Central Caprinthia touch Rollaland so 5 territories will be able to access it instead of four. 4 neutral won't make it too easy to capture but still an viable option in the game. If it's a 1v1 game someone will start with +8 and they can try to take it but the next person can most likely take it back. Anything over a 2 person game will start with 5 or less so it will be more difficult to take but perhaps when they cash spoils they could go for it. Are you testing your map versions with multiple players and gametypes?

I think Dalmus should start 3 neutral as well. This makes it harder to take the +1 bonus of Chunjaris - Theraland which is easy to defend once you have it. Also it would be harder to get the +3 island bonus for 3 held. Making Dalmus neutral would eliminate much of the luck factor from a drop on this map.

I don't think Tyros should be neutral. 1 island neutral is enough.

Summary: Make Rollaland it's own bonus of +1 autodeploy. Start it 4 neutral and make Central Caprinthia border Rollaland. If don't do this suggestion no need to have Rolland neutral. Make Dalmus 3 neutral. Don't have Tyros be neutral.
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Re: Thyseneal: V1.5

Postby The Bison King on Wed May 19, 2010 4:42 pm

Make Rollaland it's own bonus of +1 autodeploy. Start it 4 neutral and make Central Caprinthia border Rollaland. If don't do this suggestion no need to have Rolland neutral. Make Dalmus 3 neutral. Don't have Tyros be neutral.

A lot of interesting points. Some good idea's but I don't think all of it will work.

First off, Tyross not being Neutral and Dalmus being 3 neutral:

Agreed, consider it done.

Now as for the whole Rolloland situation. I am not opposed to making it a +1 auto deploy. I kind of like the idea, but I definitely am keeping it as a part of the Ifnal Bonus. I really like having it be a split bonus, it makes it more interesting to hold, and it makes it a very important territory. Having it be be a +1 auto deploy as well might make it too important though. On the flip side it might work out since it's kind of out there anyway and hard to hold, a auto deploy +1 might give it the extra edge. As for connecting Central Caprinthia to Rolloland, No, because Caprinthia doesn't need more borders. I all ready went out of my way to remove borders.

Summation:

Tyross: regular territory
Dalmus: Neutral 3
Central Caprinthia: Remains the same
Rolloland:Maybe a +1 auto deploy as part of the Ifnal Bonus, but honestly I'm probably just going to keep it how it is with 3 neutral.
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Re: Thyseneal: V1.5

Postby mattattam on Wed May 19, 2010 8:39 pm

The Bison King wrote:
Rolloland:Maybe a +1 auto deploy as part of the Ifnal Bonus, but honestly I'm probably just going to keep it how it is with 3 neutral.


Well I think if you keep Rolloland as a part of the Ifnal bonus it would make it too important if you made it +1 auto deploy as well unless you add another territory to Ifnal or something like that. I do like Ifnal being a split bonus but I think it would be more dynamic if it was a +1 auto deploy and not a part of Ifnal. Ifnal could be a +2 bonus then.

Perhaps you could consider making a different territory a +1 auto deploy. Maybe a couple of them. They could be castles or the main city/capitol. You could do this with Ashula and/or Central Skyatica. Nothing else stands out to me as a good place to do that, even those would be too much of choke points set up as they are.
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Re: Thyseneal: V1.5

Postby Evil DIMwit on Thu May 20, 2010 9:34 am

Yeah, I think you can skip on the auto-deploy for Rolloland. In fact, you can probably skip on auto-deploys everywhere in the map.
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Re: Thyseneal: V1.5

Postby mattattam on Thu May 20, 2010 1:21 pm

Evil DIMwit wrote:Yeah, I think you can skip on the auto-deploy for Rolloland. In fact, you can probably skip on auto-deploys everywhere in the map.


I'm okay with you disagreeing, but why would that be better? Do you just not like that personally or what? I think it would bring a more dynamic gameplay if there is 1 or perhaps 2 spots of a +1 autodeploy.
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Re: Thyseneal: V1.5

Postby Evil DIMwit on Thu May 20, 2010 1:35 pm

mattattam wrote:
Evil DIMwit wrote:Yeah, I think you can skip on the auto-deploy for Rolloland. In fact, you can probably skip on auto-deploys everywhere in the map.


I'm okay with you disagreeing, but why would that be better? Do you just not like that personally or what? I think it would bring a more dynamic gameplay if there is 1 or perhaps 2 spots of a +1 autodeploy.


I just think between the islands and the roads this map is busy enough. Though, Bison King, do whatever you think is strategically appropriate.
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Re: Thyseneal: V1.5

Postby The Bison King on Thu May 20, 2010 2:42 pm

I just think between the islands and the roads this map is busy enough.


I agree.

Perhaps you could consider making a different territory a +1 auto deploy... Ashula and/or Central Skyatica. Nothing else stands out to me as a good place to do that, even those would be too much of choke points set up as they are.


You said it yourself, and I agree with you. They were some good suggestions and very much do appreciate the input, but I think I'm going to pass on the +1 auto deploys all together. I've put a lot of thought into the bonus structure of this game and adding the +1 auto deploys just adds to much counter balance to what is all ready there. Besides I'm running out of places on the map to add more rules. It's all ready crowded enough.
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Re: Thyseneal: V1.5

Postby natty dread on Thu May 20, 2010 3:47 pm

No autodeploys, they're totally unnecessary on this map.
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Re: Thyseneal: V1.5

Postby mattattam on Thu May 20, 2010 8:02 pm

Okay. Glad to give the input. Thanks for hearing it out.
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