AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16>

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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby natty dread on Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:29 pm

You know what, I'm just gonna add little coloured flags on the roofs of the stations. That should set them apart.
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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby Robespierre__ on Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:48 pm

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I think it should be made clear somewhere on the map whether the rail stations are necessary for the empire bonus of the region.
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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby pamoa on Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:39 am

natty_dread wrote:You know what, I'm just gonna add little coloured flags on the roofs of the stations. That should set them apart.

yeah good idea
make sure shape or number are different for each type
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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby natty dread on Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:22 am

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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby ender516 on Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:36 am

I think you are getting there. If you hear further complaints, I suggest:
Transsib Terminus: flag and little windows (which is what you have)
Transsib Station: no flag, but little windows (which would require adding the little windows)
Regular Station: no flag, no little windows (which is what you have).
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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby Nola_Lifer on Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:50 pm

Played this once with trips. Not really a map ment for team games but that doesn't make it a bad map. It looks good. The only thing I'd really change is what others are speaking of; make the stations(reg and transsib) and terminus more obvious. Maybe make the the top and sides colored so they stand out a bit more.
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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby natty dread on Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:03 pm

Nola_Lifer wrote:Played this once with trips. Not really a map ment for team games but that doesn't make it a bad map. It looks good. The only thing I'd really change is what others are speaking of; make the stations(reg and transsib) and terminus more obvious. Maybe make the the top and sides colored so they stand out a bit more.


Thanks for the feedback. This is already being addressed. Check out the latest version on the 1st page or a couple posts before yours.

As for this not being a good team map, I'm also aware of this... The next update should also fix this somewhat; I'm making all the stations except for the terminals neutral 2:s instead of 3:s, and increasing the rail line bonuses to make them more attractive.
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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby natty dread on Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:27 am

Whooppeee, I'm an update machine

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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby ender516 on Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:25 pm

I still find the distinction between regular stations and Transsib stations to be underwhelming. The difference between grey and grey-blue isn't very easy to see. Why not have the Transsib stations the same colour as the Transsib termini, but without the special terminus flags?
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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby natty dread on Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:54 am

ender516 wrote:I still find the distinction between regular stations and Transsib stations to be underwhelming.


Are we looking at the same map? I don't think we are.

I won't change the stations further. They're different enough now.
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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby ender516 on Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:36 pm

We are looking at the same map with different eyes on different monitors. It is what it is.
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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby natty dread on Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:56 am

Then how can you say something like this:

I still find the distinction between regular stations and Transsib stations to be underwhelming.


When the regular stations are now 2x darker than the transsib ones? Seriously, if someone still has problems telling them apart, then that someone is a blind mole rat who should be burrowing small tunnels and stealing vegetables instead of playing CC anyway.
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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby pamoa on Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:18 am

keep in mind you are looking at it without armies digits
with their strong colour contrast they tend to annihilate all subtle effect
maybe you can remove the conics roofs on the turrets of normal station
maybe
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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby natty dread on Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:13 am

I won't do any more changes before these updates go live. If there are any significant problems after the update I will evaluate the situation again.
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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby MrBenn on Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:03 pm

Just waiting on the turtle to wave his wand

/forward 100
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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby natty dread on Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:16 pm

Thanks MrB.


To everyone else, I'll elaborate on my previous post... I'm sorry if anyone feels that their feedback hasn't been listened enough, but based on what I've noticed on my previous beta periods... sometimes, when updates pile up, there comes a point where you just have to draw a line and say "ok, no more changes until these ones are uploaded". You don't want to make too many changes at once, especially when there are things that are hard to tell without the map being in play, whether they are necessary/beneficial or not.

So we're going to run with this version for now, and if any problems come up... well, we'll burn that bridge when we cross it.
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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby ender516 on Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:57 pm

MrBenn wrote:Just waiting on the turtle to wave his wand

/forward 100

Is this a Logo programming language reference I see before me?
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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby owenshooter on Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:13 am

bit of confusion in a match i just played... we all assumed finland could attack st. pete's... visually, it seems as if it could... is this the proper place to post this sort of thing?-the black jesus
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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby Riskismy on Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:29 am

I don't think that's a problem. Honestly, you guys just didn't think it through. After all, you can't attack from Moscow territory to St. P. either. Stations are attacked from the territory beneath them, this is true over all of the map.
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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby natty dread on Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:40 am

owenshooter wrote:bit of confusion in a match i just played... we all assumed finland could attack st. pete's... visually, it seems as if it could... is this the proper place to post this sort of thing?-the black jesus


Yes, it's the proper place. I'm sorry for the confusion you experienced.

I've thought that generally, the idea that stations only assault the territory they are in is pretty well established withing the range of CC maps... starting from Vancouver, where (I think) stations within a standard geographical map were first implemented.

Granted, in Vancouver, it is explicitly stated in the legend... however in the previous map of the series, Orient Express, I didn't state it in the legend, and I don't remember that we would have heard any reports of people experiencing confusion about the issue... which is why it hasn't been stated explicitly here either. :-k

Do you think this is a one-time occurence or does this cause confusion to more players? If the situation warrants it I could add a short text to the legend explaining that stations only connect to the territory they are in.
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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby ender516 on Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:46 pm

The same is true in NYC (an older map than Vancouver) and it also spells out the rules about attacks into and out of stations in its legend.
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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby natty dread on Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:13 pm

Ok then... so I guess there's really ample precedent of mentioning it in the legend... but at what point does a map feature become so common that it requires less of an explanation?

Look at the oldest CC maps, some of them explain some things very explicitly, things that newer maps explain in much fewer words if they bother explaining at all... for example, arms race explains it's killer neutrals very thoroughly, stating that the territories become neutral if held at the start of your turn... While lots of newer maps simply state that "resets to neutral". Ok, maybe a bad example, since we do still get some complainst about killer neutrals not being explained, but most of the playerbase already knows the killer neutral feature so well that further explanations aren't needed, and maps with short explanations are accepted...

A better example might be Dustbowl... it states explicitly that all territories lose 1 troop per turn, until they are down to 1... While pretty much all newer maps with decays simply state "territories lose 1 troop per turn", and players usually know how they work.

So I guess I'm just wondering, are the stations not yet at that point in "familiarity" to the CC players where they can be left unexplained? I've been thinking that they are, but I've been known to be wrong about some things... sometimes... ;)


Anyway, if you guys think it's needed, I can add it on the map legend. Should it also be added to Orient Express? I'm not sure if I have the layered images for it anymore, but a simple text addition should be possible without them...
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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby owenshooter on Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:45 pm

i understand rail stations, etc... i think the issue is the super tiny line between st. pete's and finland. we all just assumed one could attack the other... just an observation, and it was everyone involved in the match, not just me... i like the changes on the first page...-musta jesus
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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby natty dread on Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:04 pm

owenshooter wrote:i understand rail stations, etc... i think the issue is the super tiny line between st. pete's and finland. we all just assumed one could attack the other... just an observation, and it was everyone involved in the match, not just me... i like the changes on the first page...-musta jesus


Ah, now I see. Yeah, I could move the Karelia/Finland border north a bit, maybe that would help?

Oh, and the changes on the 1st page have already been implemented. Also, the stations all start as neutral 2:s now, which should make them a bit more useful in team games...
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Re: AOS: Transsib 1914 <v16> updates pg1

Postby owenshooter on Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:12 am

natty_dread wrote:
owenshooter wrote:i understand rail stations, etc... i think the issue is the super tiny line between st. pete's and finland. we all just assumed one could attack the other... just an observation, and it was everyone involved in the match, not just me... i like the changes on the first page...-musta jesus


Ah, now I see. Yeah, I could move the Karelia/Finland border north a bit, maybe that would help?

Oh, and the changes on the 1st page have already been implemented. Also, the stations all start as neutral 2:s now, which should make them a bit more useful in team games...

EXACTLY!!! yes, i would even try this map again...-musta jesus
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