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Celtic 7 Nations v4.0 [Gp][Gx][XML][Beta]!

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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v1.9

Postby natty dread on Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:04 am

Also try making the land borders thicker. In some places (ireland) the land colour shows through on the wrong side of the outline...
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v1.9

Postby ender516 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:04 pm

Okay, having been invited by TBK via PM to do the XML (I love acronyms), here is version 1.0:

Celtic_7_Nations.1.0.xml

I have constructed this with chipv's Map XML Wizard and it seems self consistent, but something isn't right as far as the XML checker tool is concerned: the Test XML portion at the top reports no errors and no warnings, and under the Map Inspect portion below, the coordinates seem to be okay, but the text map and continents summary are blank. Any ideas what the problem is? Do I still have to delete a header from the Wizard output to suit the latest site requirements?
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v1.9

Postby natty dread on Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:19 pm

e. nvm
Last edited by natty dread on Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v1.9

Postby natty dread on Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:35 pm

Here... I loaded your xml to visual studio, saved it again and now it works

http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/2/7/2 ... ns.1.0.xml
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v1.9

Postby ender516 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:01 pm

Thanks, natty. The differences between your version and mine are the leading white space on line 15 where the name of the continent of Ireland is defined (which I presume is not the problem), and the encoding declaration on line 1 (which would appear to be the problem). In yours, it says
Code: Select all
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>

and in mine, it says
Code: Select all
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>

The odd thing about this is that the XML 1.0 Specification says that it should be in uppercase. However, this may explain why I was having problems using the "é". I guess I will check this out, and post a new version, perhaps with the accented e in place. Of course, that will mean our artist here will have to find a prettier way of putting that letter on the map. Maybe overlaying the accent character will do it, or just a stroke of a pen.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v1.9

Postby natty dread on Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:50 am

Leading whitespaces shouldn't be a problem...

Funny thing that utf. Btw are you sure your .xml was encoded right? When I save in visual studio I get 2 different utf-8 options - one is "utf-8 with signature" and the other "utf-8 without signature". I'm not totally sure what the difference between them is....
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v1.9

Postby DubWarrior on Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:08 am

I love it,
just some ideas:
I like the -1 for the celtic sea. What about an icon or symbol for a seamonster instead of the celtic knot? the road on sea must have been dangerous and with many risk. There must have been some believe connected with the sea...maybe an Orobouros (circle without end, a snake eating his own tale -> celts had some symbols concerning the cycle of life and the nature elements).
it would be nice to see some historic depth...In Ireland the Tara hill (near the current Dublin I think) was of great importance. A part of Scotland (Dal Raita) was in a struggle with the Pictii (Picts). A region of them would be nice to see (Pictavia). The unification became known as the kingdom of Alba (current scotland). So i would replace the name of scotland.
I would also suggest éire or Erin for Ireland.

history pages of the BBC comes up with some nice links and content.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/
cheers
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v1.9

Postby ender516 on Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:10 pm

natty_dread wrote:Leading whitespaces shouldn't be a problem...

Funny thing that utf. Btw are you sure your .xml was encoded right? When I save in visual studio I get 2 different utf-8 options - one is "utf-8 with signature" and the other "utf-8 without signature". I'm not totally sure what the difference between them is....

I dug out a version of Visual Studio I had forgotten I had, and saw the same thing. The signature seems to be a few magic characters at the start of the file.

As far as encoding goes, I don't do anything special. I show the XML in the Map XML Wizard, select all the text, copy it (Ctrl-c), then paste it into XEmacs running under Cygwin on my Windows XP Pro system. I did notice that I was losing something in the translation, though. If I cut the accented e from the France 1789 XML, and paste it in, it seems to be okay, but then when I show the XML in the Map XML Wizard, select, etc., I have lost the encoding. The character looks right but isn't a two-byte character any more. Maybe I need to set my keyboard differently, or set up an input method, or some other i18n trick. I could have sworn I was using special characters before without all this hassle.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v1.9

Postby The Bison King on Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:19 pm

The character looks right but isn't a two-byte character any more. Maybe I need to set my keyboard differently, or set up an input method, or some other i18n trick. I could have sworn I was using special characters before without all this hassle.
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I didn't know how to make special characters with my own computer so I just copy pasted that word off of a website. Could that be the problem?
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v1.9

Postby ender516 on Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:21 pm

I was having trouble even with versions that had no special characters in them, so it isn't just that.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v1.9

Postby The Bison King on Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:30 pm

hmm....
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v2.0

Postby The Bison King on Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:40 pm

Click image to enlarge.
image


Click image to enlarge.
image


try making the land borders thicker. In some places (ireland) the land colour shows through on the wrong side of the outline...


Cleaned up that edge and a few others. Still a few area's that could be a bit tighter that I'll attend to later.

I like the -1 for the celtic sea. What about an icon or symbol for a seamonster instead of the celtic knot? the road on sea must have been dangerous and with many risk. There must have been some believe connected with the sea...maybe an Orobouros (circle without end, a snake eating his own tale -> celts had some symbols concerning the cycle of life and the nature elements).


This is not a bad idea. I'll see what I can come up with.

it would be nice to see some historic depth...In Ireland the Tara hill (near the current Dublin I think) was of great importance. A part of Scotland (Dal Raita) was in a struggle with the Pictii (Picts). A region of them would be nice to see (Pictavia).

Are you talking about replacing the names of existing territories? If so which ones?

The unification became known as the kingdom of Alba (current scotland). So i would replace the name of scotland.
I would also suggest éire or Erin for Ireland.


Yeah I thought about that, as well as Kenrow for Cornwall, but the problem is if I used the ancient Celtic name for one I'd have to do it for all of them. I haven't been able find the ancient names for Brittany or Galicia. I figured I'd just go with the modern names people are familiar with. I might change my mind if I can find the old names for all the 7 nations.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v2.0

Postby The Bison King on Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:54 pm

but the problem is if I used the ancient Celtic name for one I'd have to do it for all of them. I haven't been able find the ancient names for Brittany or Galicia.


Correction I found all the Gaelic names except Galicia. I still feel like I would want to keep their modern names on there as well for familiarities sake with most players. Maybe there's a way to fit them both.... erggg I just don't know!
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v2.0

Postby natty dread on Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:00 pm

The problem with the outer land borders is that they seem really inconsistent... their thickness varies, some parts are blurry, others are pixelated...

I suggest redoing the outer land borders, but this time use a method that keeps the lines consistent...

The borders inside the land (not between land & sea) are mostly fine. There are some with slight pixelation (mainly Ireland) and some blurry (scotland) but other than those they're fine.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v2.0

Postby The Bison King on Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:05 pm

The problem with the outer land borders is that they seem really inconsistent... their thickness varies, some parts are blurry, others are pixelated...

I suggest redoing the outer land borders, but this time use a method that keeps the lines consistent...


I kind of like the inconsistency of the outside line. It's one of those charming imperfections we so frequently disagree upon (you know how I hate to offend god ;) ). I'll continue to make it a little neater, and tighter in areas, but don't expect to see a perfect uniform line.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v2.0

Postby natty dread on Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:16 pm

The Bison King wrote:
The problem with the outer land borders is that they seem really inconsistent... their thickness varies, some parts are blurry, others are pixelated...

I suggest redoing the outer land borders, but this time use a method that keeps the lines consistent...


I kind of like the inconsistency of the outside line. It's one of those charming imperfections we so frequently disagree upon (you know how I hate to offend god ;) ). I'll continue to make it a little neater, and tighter in areas, but don't expect to see a perfect uniform line.


I think you misunderstand what I mean by consistency.

If you use a custom brush with an elliptic shape, you get a varying line thickness, but the line is still consistent because it is drawn with the same brush.

Here, your lines look like they were drawn with a variety of different brushes... I'm sorry to say this but it gives it a sort of amateurish look.

Overall I like your map though, and I think the current border lines don't do justice to the rest of the graphics.

If you use a custom brush shaped like a waterdrop, you can get quite realistic ink & pen type lines if done right... ;)
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v2.0

Postby The Bison King on Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:25 pm

Here, your lines look like they were drawn with a variety of different brushes... I'm sorry to say this but it gives it a sort of amateurish look.

I used a 0.5 felt tip Micron drafting pen. It doesn't bother me when you say amateurish because I know what I'm doing. Granted it's not the perfectly clean computer graphics most people are used to seeing, but I like the imperfect hand drawn appeal.

If you use a custom brush shaped like a waterdrop, you can get quite realistic ink & pen type lines if done right...

Or you can actually just use an ink pen, like I did ;)

No hard feelings though, like I said I'll clean it up and make it look better. Don't worry, at the end of the day we'll have something pretty to look at.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v2.0

Postby natty dread on Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:19 pm

Or you can actually just use an ink pen, like I did


The thing is, something that looks good on paper does not necessarily look good on a computer screen (although the reverse is usually true as long as the dpi is high enough.)

For example, thin lines tend to lose a lot of detail in the scanning process. This is where the computer editing comes in - you have to correct all the flaws that enter your work when transfering from paper to digital.

But I'm sure you already know all this, so I'm not even sure why we're still having this conversation :shock:
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v2.0

Postby mattattam on Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:06 pm

Correction I found all the Gaelic names except Galicia. I still feel like I would want to keep their modern names on there as well for familiarities sake with most players. Maybe there's a way to fit them both.... erggg I just don't know!


You could do this by putting the modern names in the mini map and the Celtic names on the actually map or vice versa. Just have them be see through. Play around with a light faded font that wouldn't distract anyone into thinking it is the name of a territory. :)
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v2.1

Postby The Bison King on Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:38 pm

Click image to enlarge.
image


Click image to enlarge.
image


Ok Natty this one's just for you. How like you the borders? You better like them because god is totally pissed at me ;)
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v2.1

Postby The Bison King on Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:40 pm

Honestly though I'll probably end up putting a little more work into them but you get the idea.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v2.1

Postby natty dread on Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:19 am

Better, but they could still be thicker.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v2.1

Postby The Bison King on Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:23 am

Click image to enlarge.
image


Click image to enlarge.
image


There I re-posted this map as well, with the more true, less faded, colors. The Emerald Isle actually looks Emerald now.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v2.1

Postby ManBungalow on Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:13 pm

Yessssss, I love this.
It's almost unclear which bonus area the Ynysek Syllan region belongs to (Cornwall-Brittany). I feel that swapping the colours of the Scotland and Cornwall bonuses around would be an effective and simple solution, as the colour used in Scotland greatly contrasts that of Brittany.
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Re: Celtic 7 Nations v2.1

Postby The Bison King on Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:58 pm

It's almost unclear which bonus area the Ynysek Syllan region belongs to (Cornwall-Brittany). I feel that swapping the colours of the Scotland and Cornwall bonuses around would be an effective and simple solution, as the colour used in Scotland greatly contrasts that of Brittany.


I see what you're saying but I'm not convinced that's the right solution. I'll adjust Brittany's color independently to help it stand out from Cornwall.

Yessssss, I love this.


Thanks, always good to hear. :D
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