Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby MrBenn on Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:21 pm

Evil DIMwit wrote:Fixed Right Infield and let's try this with just one neutral on the batter.
http://rassyndrome.webs.com/CC/Baseball.xml

sent to lack
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby Fuzzy316 on Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:14 pm

I believe that the Home run balls issue that has been a problem should have a notice on the map. That once you own the home run, although it gives a army bonus... IT CANNOT ATTACK. I have fallen prey to 2 games now where i get stuck and may as well deadbeat the rest of the game since I cannot attack. FOr example... in the Sanfran map.. No escape from alcatraz.. clearly posted on the map.
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby greenoaks on Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:33 pm

the home run balls are pointless.

they have a huge number of neutrals to defeat to get them and then you can't do anything with them. remove them or give them a purpose.

afterall i might be an australian but even i know a home run is a good thing to get, yet it is not on this map.
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby natty dread on Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:04 pm

Fuzzy316 wrote:I believe that the Home run balls issue that has been a problem should have a notice on the map. That once you own the home run, although it gives a army bonus... IT CANNOT ATTACK. I have fallen prey to 2 games now where i get stuck and may as well deadbeat the rest of the game since I cannot attack. FOr example... in the Sanfran map.. No escape from alcatraz.. clearly posted on the map.


I could add a warning label on them..
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby Paddy The Cat on Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:18 pm

Kiko13 wrote:
RedRover23B wrote:Echoing a few recent posts, 1v1 games on this map almost are always stalemates from the start because there is no advantage for either player to attack.


I disagree. In my last 5 games I attacked first (either on my 1st or 2nd turn) I won 2, lost 1 and 2 are ongoing, but I think I have sufficient control that I am going to win both of those, so likely 4 and 1. And the one game I lost I had ridiculously bad dice where I attacked Babe, then a ball and then couldn't even win an assault to get off the ball and of course was completely screwed at that point.

I will say that attacking first is probably only a good idea if you have the first turn in the game:

1st player attack:
1st player - attacks with 17, takes some region in the field
2nd player - attacks with 17, may or may not be able to take out 1st players region

2nd player attack:
1st player - does nothing, has 17 on pitcher
2nd player - attacks with 17, takes some region in the field
1st player - now has 22 to attack with

In both cases, the first attacker has 17 troops, but for the 2nd player to attack, there is a big difference between the 2 scenarios.


attacking first is never a good idea. Seriously. Never. Think of a reason I will tell you it's wrong. Not a good idea. It doesnt matter how many games you won you just got lucky. Even if the batter is only 1 neutral, the first player is wasting men on neutrals, (losing men to a player not even real), and secondly losing attacker advantage. For every 8 men taken on average there will be 7 men lost. Dice can be fickle, but this is the average. If you win by attacking first you simply got 'lucky'.

However this is only for sunny settings, in fog you MIGHT be able to trick your opponents depending on their IQ and skill levels...
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby Evil DIMwit on Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:41 pm

greenoaks wrote:the home run balls are pointless.

they have a huge number of neutrals to defeat to get them and then you can't do anything with them. remove them or give them a purpose.

afterall i might be an australian but even i know a home run is a good thing to get, yet it is not on this map.


They give a pretty hefty bonus which you can use on the rest of the map. I think they're good enough.
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby HighlanderAttack on Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:34 pm

If something is not figured out with this map it goes down as the worst map in cc history

there is nothing strategic about it==advance out and get lucky with the dice and pray your opponent can't take what you took

all I do is drop and go until my opponent does something--if they dont do anything I dont do anything but drop

It is ridiculous
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby sannemanrobinson on Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:38 pm

It will be a boring game if everyone has that attitude of waiting for the others to move. In my experience of five games there was always someone who started going to the field and other players follow.

An other idea is to skip Babe and let all the players directly attack the balls. There are 7 balls + 2 home runs so why not also skip the killer neutral ability of the balls? Players that take it slow with one territory a turn are tempted to spread out in the field. This may take away speed that makes this about baseball but takes away the frustration of being trapped on a killer neutral without a possibility to fort to a save zone.

edit: I don't agree with HA that the quality of the map is low. I love to play it!
Last edited by sannemanrobinson on Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby greenoaks on Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:48 pm

Evil DIMwit wrote:
greenoaks wrote:the home run balls are pointless.

they have a huge number of neutrals to defeat to get them and then you can't do anything with them. remove them or give them a purpose.

afterall i might be an australian but even i know a home run is a good thing to get, yet it is not on this map.


They give a pretty hefty bonus which you can use on the rest of the map. I think they're good enough.

but the troops used to get them means you don't have enough left to defend them. that renders them pointless.
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby carlpgoodrich on Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:14 pm

In the games I've played the home runs have played a large role. Part of the strategy with them is knowing when not to take them (i.e. on your first turn).
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby Steve The Mighty on Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:40 am

It might be worth considering bring Home runs into play. See game 9093729 - I have one region home run 1 with 266 troops. I cannot influence the game as I cannot attack - I have two choices miss my turns and get kicked out or take my turns and watch the armies grow. Both options delay the game and serve no purpose.

My thoughts but this is the first time I have encountered a potential problem with this map apart from the initial days when the correct number of troops were not allocated to players - this seems to have been fixed or resolved itself
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby qwertylpc on Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:50 am

HighlanderAttack wrote:If something is not figured out with this map it goes down as the worst map in cc history

there is nothing strategic about it==advance out and get lucky with the dice and pray your opponent can't take what you took

all I do is drop and go until my opponent does something--if they dont do anything I dont do anything but drop

It is ridiculous


same, except when i attack i tend to lose like 12 v1 so i just lose on that map anyway
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby natty dread on Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:41 am

It may be that this map just isn't meant for 1v1 or team play...
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby jpverkamp on Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:55 pm

I'm not sure if this is the place to bring this up or it's already been mentioned, but I'm pretty sure it's possible to deadlock a Baseball game.

If all of the Pitchers have been killed (bombarded by the mound), then no one can take Babe.
If no one can take Babe, then no one can take the Home Runs.
If two different people own the Home Runs, the game won't end.

Did I miss something?

Here's an example where exactly that has happened: http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=9217783
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby isaiah40 on Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:21 pm

Yes, hold all the bases to win.
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby jpverkamp on Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:40 pm

Got it. It's easy to miss that, although that's a problem with almost all win conditions.

Thanks.
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby Thomassaurus on Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:14 pm

Do the 4 neutrals on each base have a purpose? if they were removed that might help motivate players to attack first,
or if some of the bases were easier to take, EG: 1st = 1 neutral, 2nd = 2 neutrals, 3rd = 3 neutrals, home = 4.
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby sannemanrobinson on Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:38 am

Thomassaurus wrote:Do the 4 neutrals on each base have a purpose? if they were removed that might help motivate players to attack first,
or if some of the bases were easier to take, EG: 1st = 1 neutral, 2nd = 2 neutrals, 3rd = 3 neutrals, home = 4.

This makes sense, also in relation to Baseball that the last bases and home are more difficult to reach. The bonus values could also be in relation with the neutrals though.
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby jimfinn on Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:09 am

Maybe players could start with a pitcher and a few (maybe four each or so) territories on the field? That would make the game more interesting, I think and break some stalemates.
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:58 am

jimfinn wrote:Maybe players could start with a pitcher and a few (maybe four each or so) territories on the field? That would make the game more interesting, I think and break some stalemates.


You know what, that's not an awful idea. Not enough to gain any bonus straight away but enough to have a bit of direction in place from the outset.
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby mr. CD on Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:35 am

Evil DIMwit wrote:
jimfinn wrote:Maybe players could start with a pitcher and a few (maybe four each or so) territories on the field? That would make the game more interesting, I think and break some stalemates.


You know what, that's not an awful idea. Not enough to gain any bonus straight away but enough to have a bit of direction in place from the outset.


Don't think it'd work, it'd make it luck only. First player to gain a bonus wins.
And before someone says it is that way allready, it isn't. In my opinion it's a good map, even for 2 players. Just don't play it sunny (and even if you do, it can get very interesting).
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby lostatlimbo on Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:48 pm

jimfinn wrote:Maybe players could start with a pitcher and a few (maybe four each or so) territories on the field? That would make the game more interesting, I think and break some stalemates.


It would also be interesting to see you incorporate in walks and stolen bases somehow. That might help avoid the bottle-necking issues.

I dig this map despite its flaws and hope it works out!
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby Coleman on Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:06 pm

jpverkamp wrote:Got it. It's easy to miss that, although that's a problem with almost all win conditions.

Thanks.


You just made me think of an awesome UI suggestion. You are the man. =D>
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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby Kase on Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:22 pm

Possible bug. But I don't know where to post to.
In Baseball:King of Diamonds Game #9519202
We are playing escalating and chained. So when I finished my attack from Willie to Jackie, I tried to reinforce going back to LD4. But the game would not let me start my reinforcement from Jackie, which has 7 troops on it. Please let me know where I was supposed to post this possible bug.

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Re: Baseball: King of Diamonds (v15 p.27)

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:27 pm

Kase wrote:Possible bug. But I don't know where to post to.
In Baseball:King of Diamonds Game Game 9519202
We are playing escalating and chained. So when I finished my attack from Willie to Jackie, I tried to reinforce going back to LD4. But the game would not let me start my reinforcement from Jackie, which has 7 troops on it. Please let me know where I was supposed to post this possible bug.

Thanks Kase


Fixed. Willie to Jackie is a one way attack, that is the reason.
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