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Re: California

Postby The Bison King on Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:53 pm

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Ok Porky it's your time to shine! can you help me fill the gaps?
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Re: California

Postby Victor Sullivan on Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:24 am

I'm worried about the red and brown territories. Will the army numbers fit on the small version?
Also, non-zoomed in LA should be red, not brown.
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Re: California

Postby barterer2002 on Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:09 am

Victor Sullivan wrote:Also, non-zoomed in LA should be red, not brown.


Seconded

Also the terts in the inset map should be labeled as well.

If you could avoid using so many abbrev. it would be helpful (SF, BK, SM, SFV, SC, BB, BH, HW, IE-I'm not liking the legend where they're spread out, I think that several can fit without issue). And obviously there are unnamed terts that need names. In your legend, where you list the cities bonus you should probably indicate that cities are marked with a dot

As far as gameplay goes, it looks fairly straigtforward which is probably a good thing. I can easily see a tournament using the San Fran-California-USA West-USA-North America-World type of progression.
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Re: California

Postby The Bison King on Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:31 am

Victor Sullivan wrote:I'm worried about the red and brown territories. Will the army numbers fit on the small version?
Also, non-zoomed in LA should be red, not brown.

There definitely is room for me to zoom in a little closer on LA. That's what I'll end up doing on the next draft. Hopefully that'll free up enough space to where I don't have to use as many abbreviations. Also I know it should be red and not Brown, that was just a mistake I made in the last update.
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Re: California

Postby porkenbeans on Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:34 pm

King,
I would be very happy to be of assistance, if i can. This project is near and dear, and you do have the artistic talent, to take on this map. I am a big fan of your watercolors. I too love to work in that medium. I look forward to trading pointers with you, on technique and style, of watercolor painting.

Before I delve into the critique of this map, I feel that there are a couple of issues that first need to be addressed. The matter of the shape again. Something was bothering me, but I overlooked it. -While I was downloading some maps for you, I immediately saw just what it was that was bothering me. The shape is not quite right. Yours looks like a freehand drawing, made by some long ago cartographer, that did not have the advanced measuring and mapping tools that we have today. I will post a side by side, to show what I mean-
Click image to enlarge.
image

It may not seem like such a big deal to you, but if you are going to make the theme of this map, about the current (modern) day and age, with all of the current counties and cities, then, I think that it might be more proper to use the actual shape of the State. Here is a shot of the correct Counties-
Click image to enlarge.
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If you were to do your watercolor thing with this shape, It would look beautiful, I am sure.

Here are some more maps that you can use as textures or whatever-
Click image to enlarge.
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Click image to enlarge.
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here is a map showing all of those different climate zones-
Click image to enlarge.
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I love the watercolor that you have got going now.Even with the incorrect shape, It still has a certain charm. It looks like it was painted yesterday, by a cartographer that lived 300 years ago. Who says that an Antique "looking" map, needs to be all faded and yellowed out ? Why not a representation of the map as it would have looked when it was made. Before the ravages of time steal away its color and clarity.

So, Why not continue with the current watercolor, but change up the theme to match some long ago era. Here is an era that I think would fit the map-
Click image to enlarge.
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You could work these Original Tribes theme in pretty well, I imagine.

My vote is to keep on with the current graphics, but pick a different era that you think this style would fit. Anyways, something to ponder on I guess. 8-)

Almost forgot. Did a take off on a possible way to do that inset. The blowup needs to be redrawn but it gives you the idea.
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Re: California

Postby The Bison King on Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:04 pm

The shape is not quite right. Yours looks like a freehand drawing, made by some long ago cartographer, that did not have the advanced measuring and mapping tools that we have today. I will post a side by side, to show what I mean-


True. When you put them back to back I was actually thrilled to see how close I was. :)

It still has a certain charm. It looks like it was painted yesterday, by a cartographer that lived 300 years ago. Who says that an Antique "looking" map, needs to be all faded and yellowed out ? Why not a representation of the map as it would have looked when it was made. Before the ravages of time steal away its color and clarity.


:-k I'm listening...

So, Why not continue with the current watercolor, but change up the theme to match some long ago era.

I agree! However I think the first nation names are a little close to what Tisha has already done on her North America First Nations map. I was thinking a great era to theme this around would be a 1840-1850 theme. Around the time of the gold rush and it's rise to statehood! A young American California, just after it was conquered from Mexico.

Thanks for the maps ;)
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Re: California

Postby The Bison King on Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:37 pm

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Here's a taste of where I want to go with this visually. This is just to give you an idea, of what I want to do and the specifics will be replaced later.
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Re: California

Postby porkenbeans on Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:10 am

That is the same era that came to my mind as well. it will make for a good map.

About the tribes theme, I would not worry about it being too close to tisha's map. It is of the same era, so some tribes will be on both maps. So what. There are many maps with say Germans or whatever. This should not hinder the idea.

The Gold Rush era is my favorite, however. The map style will mesh well I think. I can not wait to see what you come up with. 8-)
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Re: California

Postby porkenbeans on Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:57 am

I like the direction the logo is taking. But the rest is looking out of place with the theme. It should be done in watercolor just like the state. It should flow together as if painted on canvas. It looks to "clip and paste" like a modern magazine add. The whole thing should look like a watercolor painting. Everything except the labels, that is. Although the text in the title could stand to be painted "watercolor".
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Re: California

Postby Victor Sullivan on Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:34 am

I still don't fully understand the cities. Are you gonna label them? Are they gonna be separate territories from the one it's in?
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Re: California

Postby The Bison King on Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:13 am

porkenbeans wrote:I like the direction the logo is taking. But the rest is looking out of place with the theme. It should be done in watercolor just like the state. It should flow together as if painted on canvas. It looks to "clip and paste" like a modern magazine add. The whole thing should look like a watercolor painting. Everything except the labels, that is. Although the text in the title could stand to be painted "watercolor".

I'm sorry I thought I made it clear that I would be re-doing everything I added. I merely was giving you the "idea" of what would be there, those are in no way the final graphics. Just an example.
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Re: California

Postby The Bison King on Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:17 am

Victor Sullivan wrote:I still don't fully understand the cities. Are you gonna label them? Are they gonna be separate territories from the one it's in?

No they are the territories. You can look at the original Italy map, Fractured America, or any of the USA map pack regions for precedent. It's really quite a common feature in a lot of maps.
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Re: California

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:23 pm

Ah... I finally understood the cities.

The big thing that I find is missing from this map is the awesomeness of the California Flag. 1) There is a giant bear 2) Red Star, and communism reference ignored, stars are pretty. 3) It says "California Republic" and, sure, the USA has absorbed many other states but Cali is the only one that says it explicitly on the flag and for that reason, California's flag is badass.

I'd say ditch a lot of those abbreviations. The less the better.
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Re: California

Postby The Bison King on Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:04 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:Ah... I finally understood the cities.

The big thing that I find is missing from this map is the awesomeness of the California Flag. 1) There is a giant bear 2) Red Star, and communism reference ignored, stars are pretty. 3) It says "California Republic" and, sure, the USA has absorbed many other states but Cali is the only one that says it explicitly on the flag and for that reason, California's flag is badass.

I'd say ditch a lot of those abbreviations. The less the better.

I meet you with agreement on all counts.
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Re: California

Postby porkenbeans on Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:42 am

First bear flag-
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Re: California

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:14 pm

Right now, my biggest concern is the insets fitting everything on the small map. But for now, this meets Melting Pot standards and will head on to gameplay.
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Re: California

Postby The Bison King on Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:10 am

Awesome! I actually just started playing the first analog game of this today. We didn't finish though... So far everything seems to be working out, though I definitely found a few things I already want to change. Mostly how territories are arranged in L.A, and Sierra Nevada, maybe a little bonus value tweaking here and there.
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Re: California

Postby The Bison King on Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:12 am

I'll update soon, I just haven't had as much time to work on this lately.
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Re: California 1.1

Postby The Bison King on Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:45 pm

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The big change on this one is that I rearranged Sierra Nevada's borders so that it only has 3 borders instead of 4. I also added all the names in. I should note that the territory "No Name" is in reference to a ghost town we found there literally called "No Name". That region of the state is pretty much defined by ghost towns so I thought it would be appropriate. It's either that or Lone Pine.

I still need to run the numbers through a bonus calculator but does anyone think that the central coast is worth too much?
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Re: California 1.1

Postby Victor Sullivan on Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:28 pm

A few things:
1. The territory "No Name" is bad*ss. I hope you don't change the name :D
2. Central Coast should definitely stay +3, as it's equally as easy/hard to hold as Mojave.
3. The labels on the mini map are unnecessarily hard to read. Do you think you could increase the font size?
4. You think you could also have a different icon for cities? The black circles you have are rather bland and awkwardly stick out.

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Re: California 1.1

Postby army of nobunaga on Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:33 pm

i like this a lot.
Monterey for the win!

YOu may not want to, and I dont think you need it. But seems ppl think its too narrow or such- so you could do something like 13 colonies , some surfers out in the water, some islands ... i dunno.

but i rike it raggy
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Re: California 1.1

Postby The Bison King on Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:31 pm

1. The territory "No Name" is bad*ss. I hope you don't change the name :D

8-)

2. Central Coast should definitely stay +3, as it's equally as easy/hard to hold as Mojave.

That raises the question, should Sierra nevada be +3 as well? it too is 5 terri 3 borders.

3. The labels on the mini map are unnecessarily hard to read. Do you think you could increase the font size?

I think I'm going to ditch the written legend in favor of a larger mini map that contains both the region names and bonus amounts.

4. You think you could also have a different icon for cities? The black circles you have are rather bland and awkwardly stick out.

I agree the black dots were just a place holder to show people where they would be. I'll find something better to do with them later in graphics.

i like this a lot.
Monterey for the win!

YOu may not want to, and I dont think you need it. But seems ppl think its too narrow or such- so you could do something like 13 colonies , some surfers out in the water, some islands ... i dunno.


Always good to hear from you AoN.

Yeah I've considered something like that, my version on that would be that adjacent port cities could attack each other. I would ad territories to Bay area and LA that would receive those attacks as well.

For example Eureka could attack San Francisco, San Francisco could attack Eureka and Montery, Monterey could attack San Francisco and Lompoc, Lompoc could attack Monterey and Beverely hills, Beverely hills could attack Montery and San diego, and San Diego could attack Beverely hills.

But like you said it may not be needed. I'm playing a game on this map wih friends right now and so far it hasn't seemed to be to big of an issue.
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Re: California 1.1

Postby army of nobunaga on Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:41 pm

well, because you have 3 "highways" that run north to south, I dont think it will amount to an unfair choke. just my 2 cents. I like it. I like most maps that are simple and well done though.



IF there is a choke problem man.. I believe all you would have to do is move innyo forest off the edge, and make yosemite and kings canyon touch.. that will allow a little pressure to be taken off of a potential choke. I dont think i explained this well, bt i tried.
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Re: California 1.1

Postby Victor Sullivan on Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:29 pm

The Bison King wrote:
2. Central Coast should definitely stay +3, as it's equally as easy/hard to hold as Mojave.

That raises the question, should Sierra nevada be +3 as well? it too is 5 terri 3 borders.

Yes. Now, if you implemented this (which I think would be cool)...
The Bison King wrote:For example Eureka could attack San Francisco, San Francisco could attack Eureka and Montery, Monterey could attack San Francisco and Lompoc, Lompoc could attack Monterey and Beverely hills, Beverely hills could attack Montery and San diego, and San Diego could attack Beverely hills.

...you could make Central Coast +4, which would help create some diversity from all the 3's.

-Sully
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Re: California 1.1

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:07 pm

You know, I'm not liking the whole lack of impassables or strategic territories. The only bonuses that are possible to take are Blue and maybe Purple... once a player grabs those its game over cause nobody will be able to grab a bonus to stop him. Maybe the cities would be an adequate counter weight, but I dunno. I'd like to see more strategic territories which serve as good areas to take and hold.
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