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Re: California [24 Jun 2011] 5.3 Beta Files

Postby JustCallMeStupid on Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:36 pm

Bay area bonus should be changed to "Liberal Coast" bonus area.
On a more serious note, I just joined some games on this map, hoping to get you some good feed back on bonus structure and bonus balance.
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Re: California [24 Jun 2011] 5.3 Beta Files

Postby swimmerdude99 on Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:07 pm

I really dislike the amount of nuetrals in a one on one setting, makes the drop LITERALLY decide the game. No dice even effect it.
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Re: California [24 Jun 2011] 5.3 Beta Files

Postby Victor Sullivan on Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:08 pm

swimmerdude99 wrote:I really dislike the amount of nuetrals in a one on one setting, makes the drop LITERALLY decide the game. No dice even effect it.

Perhaps I code the cities as starting positions? This would solve the issue. Thoughts, TBK?

-Sully
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Re: California [24 Jun 2011] 5.3 Beta Files

Postby swimmerdude99 on Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:07 pm

Maybe... a few, but could you possibly just make the deployment higher to begin? instead of (14? like 17?)
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Re: California [24 Jun 2011] 5.3 Beta Files

Postby Victor Sullivan on Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:04 pm

swimmerdude99 wrote:Maybe... a few, but could you possibly just make the deployment higher to begin? instead of (14? like 17?)

starting positions would do that to an extent, but I'm not entirely sure what you suggest is possible. Though, I may be misunderstanding you.

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Re: California [24 Jun 2011] 5.3 Beta Files

Postby swimmerdude99 on Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:51 pm

The split on the map feels like 1/2 of the territs are nuetral, 1/4 are your opponents, and 1/4 are your territs. To many territories often stand in between you and your opponents bonus that attacking 2 nuetrals to break is rediculous. Maybe its just me and bad drops, but it feels a like a very wierd start nuetral terit count.
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Re: California [24 Jun 2011] 5.3 Beta Files

Postby Victor Sullivan on Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:54 pm

swimmerdude99 wrote:The split on the map feels like 1/2 of the territs are nuetral, 1/4 are your opponents, and 1/4 are your territs. To many territories often stand in between you and your opponents bonus that attacking 2 nuetrals to break is rediculous. Maybe its just me and bad drops, but it feels a like a very wierd start nuetral terit count.

Well, starting positions should eliminate 8 of the city neutrals.

-Sully
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Re: California [24 Jun 2011] 5.3 Beta Files

Postby The Bison King on Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:42 pm

Neutral territories are required to prevent un-even drops. That would be way worse. I don't see how neutral territories decide who wins the game? Your opposite has to deal with them as well.
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Re: California [24 Jun 2011] 5.3 Beta Files

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:44 am

The Bison King wrote:Neutral territories are required to prevent un-even drops. That would be way worse. I don't see how neutral territories decide who wins the game? Your opposite has to deal with them as well.


The opposition may need to deal with them as well but when the neutrals make this map even more unbalanced, something needs to be done. I admit that I have only just started my first game but with only one continent with 4 territs, which has a starting neutral with the city, it seems as overkill to programme in more. No one can start a game with a bonus and the odds of someone starting with all 5 territs in Sierra Nevada which does not have a city is so low as to be silly.

How many have you got programmed in?
What reasoning is behind the neutrals as they do spoil the game?

Having neutrals programmed into Golfe Du Saint-Laurent which has a lot of 3 and 4 territ bonuses is OK but not with a map like this. I really would like to see it with less neutral starts and more of a random drop. Just because you can do something, does not mean you have to.
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Re: California [24 Jun 2011] 5.3 Beta Files

Postby natty dread on Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:03 am

Sometimes neutrals have to be coded in to prevent unfair drops, like players starting with 12 territories in a 4-player game (for example). Those kind of drops give a way too big advantage for the first player (or team) so they are avoided as per the foundry guidelines.
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Re: California [24 Jun 2011] 5.3 Beta Files

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:59 am

natty, I understand coding them in to stop the first player or team getting an unfair first go but but when only 28 out of the 52 start as normal it really is over the top. There are other ways to start a game like coding reinforcements as in First nations Americas.
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Re: California [24 Jun 2011] 5.3 Beta Files

Postby tamade on Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:36 am

Map looks sharp! I'm from LA -- perhaps you could consider alternative names for some of the LA territories:

"Burbank" --> "The Valley"
"Central" --> "Downtown LA" (add a bonus star?)
"Santa Ana" --> "Irvine" or "Long Beach"
"Malibu" --> "Santa Monica"
"Chino Hills" --> "San Gabriel Valley"

Look forward to playing the map
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Re: California [24 Jun 2011] 5.3 Beta Files

Postby The Bison King on Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:58 am

How many have you got programmed in?
What reasoning is behind the neutrals as they do spoil the game?

Ask Victor as to the specific number but all of the coded Neutrals are necessary to prevent players dropping a city bonus.

No one can start a game with a bonus and the odds of someone starting with all 5 territs in Sierra Nevada which does not have a city is so low as to be silly.

Please listen. The only "Coded" neutrals are the (2)'s that prevent players from starting with the city bonus. There are no coded neutrals in the Sierra Nevada bonus. Whatever neutral tert. you encountered there was an un-programed random start neutral that the game automatically puts in to keep all the players starting with the same amount of territories. I assure you that these devices that you claim to make the game unfair are actually the tools that prevent it from being as such.
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Re: California [24 Jun 2011] 5.3 Beta Files

Postby The Bison King on Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:01 am

Also I'm going to make a draft with a few of he name changes soon. Probably none of the above mentioned ones though... I'm not entirely opposed to making Central a city star... we'll see though.
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Re: California [24 Jun 2011] 5.3 Beta Files

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:19 am

I know about the city neutrals, it just seemed a high number when I started my game. One of the reasons I rarely play 1v1. So many damn neutrals. Will get an 8 player game set up to see the overall difference. Did not mean to come across as bad but after wanting to play this map, my first game was a bit frustrating.
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