Conquer Club

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:04 am**

I’ve been wanting to make a Roman Empire map for quite a long time.

One map that could capture the problems and challenges faced by the Empire in the late 3rd century and all throughout the 4th:
Civil wars, political internal divisions, Barbarian invasions, the decline of the centralized power on Rome and eventually its fall by the hands of the Ostrogoths.

To do that I’ve based this project on the Roman Empire after Diocletian – which he divided in two large areas: The Western Roman Empire with capital on Rome and the Eastern Roman Empire with Constantinople as its capital.

Two emperors ruled together under the title of Augustus

The Empire was also divided into 4 quarters (Praefectura Praetorio) for administrative purposes:
-Italiae
-Galliarum
-Illyrici
-Orientis

Each Prefecture was governed by a Praetor also called Caesar, who's mission was to assist the Augustus in government affairs.
These Prefectures were subdivided in several Diocesis that were ruled by a Vicarius.

The Game board – Conquer Rome

There will be 8 starting positions – the Barbarian Tribes. All other regions will be randomly distributed between all players with the exception of regions with Legions on them, Barbarian Outposts and all Administrative seats in the Roman government.

The administration hierarchy is represented in the map and plays a vital part in the gameplay.
There will be NO bonus without owning one or more places there.

The game can be won by objectives, those would be:

-Holding one Imperial Capital (Rome or Constantinople)
-Holding both Imperial seats (both Augustus from West and East)
-Holding four Barbarian tribes

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af10 ... ll_img.png

XML- http://www.freewebs.com/kabanellas/Conquer_Rome_V1.6a.xml
Large map- http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af105/Kabanellas/ConquerRome_Beta4_img.png
Small map- http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af105/Kabanellas/ConquerRome_Beta3c_small_img.png

Large map

Click image to enlarge.

Small map

Click image to enlarge.

Starting Neutrals - Tribes are starting position (non-attributed will start with 8 neutral troops)

Click image to enlarge.

(a few) Previous versions
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af105/Kabanellas/ConquerRome3_img.png
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af105/Kabanellas/ConquerRome6_img.png
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af105/Kabanellas/ConquerRome7a_img.png
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af105/Kabanellas/ConquerRome_Beta3a_small_img.png

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:38 am**

Great first draft! =D>

One thing I see (I know it's a graphics thing but it's the first thing that jumped at me) is the border of the eastern and western empires between Dacia and Illyricum is not obvious (I know that's where it is but some may not relize that). Maybe thicken that border in some way to denote that's where the dividing line is? I'll take a more in-depth look when I have more time.

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:20 am**

I've wanted a Roman Empire map, but the extra additions to the gameplay probably would make this a map that I'd avoid as it stands, even though it is a pretty-sight and theme.

--Andy

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:22 am**

AndyDufresne wrote:I've wanted a Roman Empire map, but the extra additions to the gameplay probably would make this a map that I'd avoid as it stands, even though it is a pretty-sight and theme.

--Andy

Isn't Imperium Romanum what you're describing then Andy? It's pretty straightforward, while this looks like a brain melter. Nice first draft Nuno - I look forward to studying this in detail, and following it through. Brilliant conception.

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:29 am**

danryan wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:I've wanted a Roman Empire map, but the extra additions to the gameplay probably would make this a map that I'd avoid as it stands, even though it is a pretty-sight and theme.

--Andy

Isn't Imperium Romanum what you're describing then Andy? It's pretty straightforward, while this looks like a brain melter. Nice first draft Nuno - I look forward to studying this in detail, and following it through. Brilliant conception.

what he said

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:17 am**

Well this is the Roman Empire map that I'd love to play (obviously)

anyway, once you get your mind in to it you'll find that the mechanics are not that hard to understand.

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:26 am**

You can't continue cease to amaze me - I would have supported the project even just from the name and I come in and see this. Geez, I'm speechless. =D>

As much as the idea goes, I think it's great!

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:28 am**

Should be a great map, Nuno!

One thing I'd like to see is territories with real city/province names instead of codes like AFI, AFII, AFIII, AFIV and AFV. Do you think that can be done?

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:01 pm**

One objection, there's a small village in Gaul that should start neutral that isn't shown, surrounded by the fortified Roman Camps of Totorum, Laudanum, Compendium, and Totorum.

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:37 pm**

Thank you for this mind dazzle, as I have yet to have one today. I did notice a typo: The vicarious YIELD...

Looks exciting, but the large blocks of text disdazzle me...

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:47 pm**

I've been reading Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire lately and been thinking about a map that captures the politics and geographical situation. Essentially... this is it. Nice work!

The bonus system... it will be interesting to see how it plays out. It's certainly innovative though and I think i like it.

Lastly, your history needs some tidying up. Diocletian was at the end of the 3rd century, not the 4th, and while he did split the Empire, Constantine re-unified it and moved the capital to Constantinople. Diocletian's eastern capital was at Nicomedia. Julian followed Constantine in a unified Empire, but his successor Jovian presided over the final and permanent split between east and west. Your map describes the situation post-Jovian more than it does in Diocletian's time.

And the Eastern Roman Empire was never known to them as the "Byzantine Empire", they referred to themselves as Romans until the Turks sacked Constantinople.

Anyway, I want Tacktix to look at it before we pass it on, but you might as well submit a design brief now, if you're ready.

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:42 pm**

This is art. =D>

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:10 pm**

you rocks! I have some notices, but mainly from historical view. they are baseless for graphics or gameplay. still this is great draft.

after Constantine´s death at 337 AD was Romand Empire divided to three parts. than it was for short time united, but at 395 AD was divided to two parts by Theodosius. the capital of East was Constantinople, the capital of West Milano, later moved to Ravenna.
just historical view.

will not have Sassanids advantage against others Barbars?

the emblem for Easter Empire is wrong. it is from medieval times. I knos it is hard to find any other.

this is emblem of city Constantinople from about 300 AD

show

or just use "labarum" as for West side. west labarum could be red, east purple...

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:42 pm**

Looks beautiful as always Nuno. Great job!

Posted: **Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:57 pm**

WOW, that looks amazing man...... Its a fabulous Idea

good Luck Kab

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:28 pm**

danryan wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:I've wanted a Roman Empire map, but the extra additions to the gameplay probably would make this a map that I'd avoid as it stands, even though it is a pretty-sight and theme.

--Andy

Isn't Imperium Romanum what you're describing then Andy? It's pretty straightforward, while this looks like a brain melter. Nice first draft Nuno - I look forward to studying this in detail, and following it through. Brilliant conception.

Nah, Imperium Romanum isn't quite either.

--Andy

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:12 pm**

Thanks a lot guys for all your support

danryan wrote:One objection, there's a small village in Gaul that should start neutral that isn't shown, surrounded by the fortified Roman Camps of Totorum, Laudanum, Compendium, and Totorum.

ah ahahahh you're right ....and it should start with maybe 10 neutral troops at least.

Industrial Helix wrote: Diocletian was at the end of the 3rd century, not the 4th

you're totally right of course, Diocletian implemented the Tetrarchy in the 290's... an honest mistake that I'll correct asap

Industrial Helix wrote:and while he did split the Empire, Constantine re-unified it and moved the capital to Constantinople. Diocletian's eastern capital was at Nicomedia. Julian followed Constantine in a unified Empire, but his successor Jovian presided over the final and permanent split between east and west. Your map describes the situation post-Jovian more than it does in Diocletian's time.

for the sake of gameplay and appeal-ability I'm giving myself some 'conceptual freedoms' - So I'm overlooking Milan (or Mediolanum) as the temporary capital of the East and Nicomedia for the West.

Industrial Helix wrote: And the Eastern Roman Empire was never known to them as the "Byzantine Empire", they referred to themselves as Romans until the Turks sacked Constantinople.

indeed, but it was later known as the Byzantine Empire to us.

theBastard wrote:this is emblem of city Constantinople from about 300 AD
show

Humm that emblem, it definitely looks related to Islam with the crescent in it. I really don't see any relation with the Roman Empire there.....

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:16 pm**

Rodion wrote:Should be a great map, Nuno!

One thing I'd like to see is territories with real city/province names instead of codes like AFI, AFII, AFIII, AFIV and AFV. Do you think that can be done?

ohhh... How I wish. Unfortunatly I don't have the space for it especially on the small map. Also, I've merged some provinces in some areas of the Empire, so, if for some we could actually refer to them by their accurate historical name on the merged ones we couldn't.

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:37 pm**

Kabanellas wrote:
Rodion wrote:Should be a great map, Nuno!

One thing I'd like to see is territories with real city/province names instead of codes like AFI, AFII, AFIII, AFIV and AFV. Do you think that can be done?

ohhh... How I wish. Unfortunatly I don't have the space for it especially on the small map. Also, I've merged some provinces in some areas of the Empire, so, if for some we could actually refer to them by their accurate historical name on the merged ones we couldn't.

You could at least mention something in the XML...

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:45 pm**

Kabanellas wrote:for the sake of gameplay and appeal-ability I'm giving myself some 'conceptual freedoms' - So I'm overlooking Milan (or Mediolanum) as the temporary capital of the East and Nicomedia for the West.

maybe to this time era are the best Ravenna for West and Constantinople for East. if we spoke about dividing empire by Theodosius.

Kabanellas wrote:indeed, but it was later known as the Byzantine Empire to us.

much, much later

Kabanellas wrote:
theBastard wrote:this is emblem of city Constantinople from about 300 AD
show

Humm that emblem, it definitely looks related to Islam with the crescent in it. I really don't see any relation with the Roman Empire there.....

here are some notices:
The star and crescent symbol was originally used as the flag of Constantinople.
According to legend in 339 BC the city of Byzantium, (later known as Constantinople and then Istanbul), won a decisive battle under a brilliant waxing moon which they attributed to their patron Goddess Artemis (Diana in Roman mythology) whose symbol was the crescent moon.
In honor of Artemis the citizens adopted the crescent moon as their symbol.
When the city became the Christian Roman Constantinople in 330 AD, Constantine also added the Virgin Mary's star on the flag.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In 670 BC, the citizens of Byzantium made the crescent moon as their state symbol, after an important victory. Byzantium was the first governing state to use the crescent moon as its national symbol. In 330 AD Constantine I added the Virgin Mary's star to the flag. Byzantium would then also be the first attested nation or empire to use the combination of the crescent moon and star together as an emblem.

The crescent moon and star was not completely abandoned by the Christian world after the fall of Constantinople. To date the official flag of the Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem is a labarum of white, a church building with two towers, and on either side of the arms, at the top, are the outline in black of a crescent moon facing center and a star with rays

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:52 pm**

theBastard wrote:The star and crescent symbol was originally used as the flag of Constantinople.
According to legend in 339 BC the city of Byzantium, (later known as Constantinople and then Istanbul), won a decisive battle under a brilliant waxing moon which they attributed to their patron Goddess Artemis (Diana in Roman mythology) whose symbol was the crescent moon.
In honor of Artemis the citizens adopted the crescent moon as their symbol.
When the city became the Christian Roman Constantinople in 330 AD, Constantine also added the Virgin Mary's star on the flag.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In 670 BC, the citizens of Byzantium made the crescent moon as their state symbol, after an important victory. Byzantium was the first governing state to use the crescent moon as its national symbol. In 330 AD Constantine I added the Virgin Mary's star to the flag. Byzantium would then also be the first attested nation or empire to use the combination of the crescent moon and star together as an emblem.

The crescent moon and star was not completely abandoned by the Christian world after the fall of Constantinople. To date the official flag of the Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem is a labarum of white, a church building with two towers, and on either side of the arms, at the top, are the outline in black of a crescent moon facing center and a star with rays

..Very interesting

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:00 pm**

Taken from a forum:

The crescent moon originally had no connection to Islam. From the seventh century until the late thirteenth century, Islam had no symbol whatsoever. It is a religion, of course, which forbids all images. Therefore, it was not appropriated by Muhammad, but rather by the Ottoman Turks when they seized Constantinople/Istanbul. In the process they appropriated the city's Byzantine symbol (the crescent moon). The Ottomans claimed the caliphate and ruled over much of the known Muslim world, thus their symbol came to represent Islam, especially amongst the Christians whom they battled.

A decent, quick-to-read article on the subject can be found here:

http://islam.about.com/od/history/a/crescent_moon.htm

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:04 pm**

so it's understood that the crescent with the sun (star) is the flag of Constantinople.. but I'd be more interested in the flag of the Eastern Roman Empire rather than be using the flag of its capital. Any ideas?

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:16 pm**

Kabanellas wrote:so it's understood that the crescent with the sun (star) is the flag of Constantinople.. but I'd be more interested in the flag of the Eastern Roman Empire rather than be using the flag of its capital. Any ideas?

http://www.google.com.br/images?hl=pt-b ... a=N&tab=wi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-headed_eagle

Posted: **Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:19 pm**

Kabanellas wrote:so it's understood that the crescent with the sun (star) is the flag of Constantinople.. but I'd be more interested in the flag of the Eastern Roman Empire rather than be using the flag of its capital. Any ideas?

Click image to enlarge.

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