Conquer Club

It's rare to start without at least one Capital. Depending on the number of players, usually everybody has at least one. But even when I don't have one, I find I can win by taking a Legion first.

I'd hate to see this beautiful map ruined with starting positions.

Dukasaur wrote:It's rare to start without at least one Capital. Depending on the number of players, usually everybody has at least one. But even when I don't have one, I find I can win by taking a Legion first.

it is unfortunately not so rare. I saw this 3 times.

Dukasaur wrote:I'd hate to see this beautiful map ruined with starting positions.

I did not mean starting positions. I mean only if it is not possible to code that 8 Capitals will be starting positions (so each player will hold one) and the rest of map will be sorted as it is now.

Oneyed

Dukasaur wrote:It's rare to start without at least one Capital. Depending on the number of players, usually everybody has at least one. But even when I don't have one, I find I can win by taking a Legion first.

I'd hate to see this beautiful map ruined with starting positions.

I don't think he means starting positions like Feudal War. He means distribute the capitals evenly. That's done through starting positions in the XML. I don't think the gameplay would change in any way, it would just make the drop more even every time.

chapcrap wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:It's rare to start without at least one Capital. Depending on the number of players, usually everybody has at least one. But even when I don't have one, I find I can win by taking a Legion first.

I'd hate to see this beautiful map ruined with starting positions.

I don't think he means starting positions like Feudal War. He means distribute the capitals evenly. That's done through starting positions in the XML. I don't think the gameplay would change in any way, it would just make the drop more even every time.

Yes. something as is done in Third Crusade map - each player has Capital/Starting point and the rest of region are distributed random.

Oneyed

DII and ITII don't look like they connect at first glance.

I must again call for make capitals of dioceses as starting points like in the third crusade map. they do not need to start with 6 units, just distribute them so that each player will has the same number of them. or make them as 2 neutrals from start.

look on this map.
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=11955507

Oneyed

Oneyed wrote:I must again call for make capitals of dioceses as starting points like in the third crusade map. they do not need to start with 6 units, just distribute them so that each player will has the same number of them. or make them as 2 neutrals from start.

look on this map.
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=11955507

Oneyed

Cannot as the game is fog.

What is an Imperial seat? It looks like the map has huge potential but I was struggling to work out how to spawn troops or one way assault capitals and barbarian tribes. Please explain, better.

There are basically two types of troop locations on this game map: the land-based territories and the Roman Government seats in the box at the upper right. The legend at the lower left explains how you cross back and forth between these. The Imperial seats are at the top of the government hierarchy, with labels matching the labels on the Imperial capitals, Roma and Constantinopolis.

I would like to propose a change of starting positions regarding the capitals. In status quo the capitals are distributed randomly. This can induce huge imbalances considering the initial drop, especially in 1v1 games.

ie. In this game green had 2 capitols, red had 6 capitals and 6 capitals were neutral. The game was decided in a couple of turns, if not upon the drop.



Here is what I suggest. Since Rome is always 1 neutral, I think the other 14 capitals should be divided by the number of players and distributed evenly among them with the remaining capitals starting with 1 neutral army each

The distribution should look like this:



The only downside is that games with 5 and 8 players, will have 4 and 6 neutral capitals respectively. However such situations would be avoided in all other match-ups.

The bottom line is that players would get same number of capitals, which would make drops fair and square; and if there are neutral capitals, they would be easily conquerable with only 1 neutral guarding them.

I hope you will find this motion reasonable and acceptable.

Makes sense to me.

It makes sense to me as well.....

I would consider making all capitals starting positions with unassigned ones starting with only 1 neutral.

Nobodies, can we update this XML ?

Kab, it's your map...you can do what you want with it!

I have a doubt:

We will have 2 different groups of starting positions, the Barbarians (which will have a maximum of 2 per player) and the Capitals.

Can it be done like this:

Code: Select all

<?xml version="2.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<map>
<minreinforcement>3</minreinforcement>
<reinforcements>
   <reinforcement>
      <lower>1</lower>
      <upper>119</upper>
      <divisor>300</divisor>
   </reinforcement>
</reinforcements>
<positions max="2">
   <position>
      <territory start="1">Angli</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="1">Saxones</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="1">Franci</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="1">Langobardi</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="1">Ostrogothi</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="1">Visigothi</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="1">Hunni</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="1">Sassanidae</territory>
   </position>
</positions>
<positions>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Sirmium</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Mediolanum</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Carthago</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Emerita Augusta</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Burdigala</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Treverorum</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Londinium</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Constantinopolis (Imperial Capital)</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Nicomedia</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Ephesus</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Antiochia</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Alexandria</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Serdica</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Thessalonica</territory>
   </position>
</positions>

Kabanellas wrote:I have a doubt:

We will have 2 different groups of starting positions, the Barbarians (which will have a maximum of 2 per player) and the Capitals.

Can it be done like this:

Code: Select all

<?xml version="2.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<map>
<minreinforcement>3</minreinforcement>
<reinforcements>
   <reinforcement>
      <lower>1</lower>
      <upper>119</upper>
      <divisor>300</divisor>
   </reinforcement>
</reinforcements>
<positions max="2">
   <position>
      <territory start="1">Angli</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="1">Saxones</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="1">Franci</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="1">Langobardi</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="1">Ostrogothi</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="1">Visigothi</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="1">Hunni</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="1">Sassanidae</territory>
   </position>
</positions>
<positions>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Sirmium</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Mediolanum</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Carthago</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Emerita Augusta</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Burdigala</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Treverorum</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Londinium</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Constantinopolis (Imperial Capital)</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Nicomedia</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Ephesus</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Antiochia</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Alexandria</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Serdica</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start="3">Thessalonica</territory>
   </position>
</positions>

No, this cannot be done.

Honestly, I think the map is pretty perfect as it is.

nolefan5311 wrote:Honestly, I think the map is pretty perfect as it is.

Actually, things will be pretty much the same. I just want to avoid stuff like in a 1v1 game, one player starting with the most capitals while the other not....

The idea would be to distribute Capitals equally between players.

(This was a concern posted by several people...)

Kabanellas wrote:

nolefan5311 wrote:Honestly, I think the map is pretty perfect as it is.

Actually, things will be pretty much the same. I just want to avoid stuff like in a 1v1 game, one player starting with the most capitals while the other not....

The idea would be to distribute Capitals equally between players.

(This was a concern posted by several people...)

What you could do - is create a position with, say, Hunni and Sirmium. The downside to this is the minimum of two tribes is lowered to one, and you'll get one and only one capital at the start no matter how many number of players.

Another downside, in fog, you can determine which tribe someone has by which capital was started with. That isn't too bad, though, since its not a losing condition on the tribes.

Maybe it can be a random capital and a random tribe?

Ika Pakao wrote:Maybe it can be a random capital and a random tribe?

That is what kabanellas tried above. Unfortunately you can only have one <positions> tag.

Gilligan wrote:

Ika Pakao wrote:Maybe it can be a random capital and a random tribe?

That is what kabanellas tried above. Unfortunately you can only have one <positions> tag.

I'm sorry. I'm illiterate when it comes to coding.

All this obsession with "balancing" ruins so many good maps. Don't worry about it. Sometimes you get a great drop, sometimes you get a shitty drop. The "balance" comes in playing enough games over time that your greats and shits even out.

Give it fixed starting positions and you could dumb this thing down to the level of Feudal War, and that would be a truly horrible end for a wonderful map.

that's why I need 2 starting positions tags - tribes and capitals could never be related.

Basically everything would stay the same. We'll be just taking out the possibility of players getting more capitals than others. All regions will continue to be randomly distributed, including capitals.

We'd be just creating a subdivision between normal distributable regions and capitals. But all randomly distributed the same.

I understand the concern Kaba, I just don't agree that it needs to be done. So, your opponent starts with 3 capitals and you only start with 1. Like Duka said, it's all part of the game. No map is going to be perfectly fair, and this is already one of the most balanced maps out there. Obviously, it's your map and if you want to make the change, then so be it. I'm just going on the record that I don't think it needs to be changed.

koontz1973 wrote:

Oneyed wrote:I must again call for make capitals of dioceses as starting points like in the third crusade map. they do not need to start with 6 units, just distribute them so that each player will has the same number of them. or make them as 2 neutrals from start.

look on this map.
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=11955507

Oneyed

Cannot as the game is fog.

Now that the fog has lifted, it looks to me like yellow started with 6 capitals and blue with 2, which does seem unbalanced.