Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby nolefan5311 on Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:08 am

Honestly, I think the map is pretty perfect as it is.
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby Kabanellas on Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:39 am

nolefan5311 wrote:Honestly, I think the map is pretty perfect as it is.


Actually, things will be pretty much the same. I just want to avoid stuff like in a 1v1 game, one player starting with the most capitals while the other not....

The idea would be to distribute Capitals equally between players.

(This was a concern posted by several people...)
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby Gilligan on Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:42 am

Kabanellas wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:Honestly, I think the map is pretty perfect as it is.


Actually, things will be pretty much the same. I just want to avoid stuff like in a 1v1 game, one player starting with the most capitals while the other not....

The idea would be to distribute Capitals equally between players.

(This was a concern posted by several people...)


What you could do - is create a position with, say, Hunni and Sirmium. The downside to this is the minimum of two tribes is lowered to one, and you'll get one and only one capital at the start no matter how many number of players.

Another downside, in fog, you can determine which tribe someone has by which capital was started with. That isn't too bad, though, since its not a losing condition on the tribes.
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby Ika Pakao on Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:01 am

Maybe it can be a random capital and a random tribe?
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby Gilligan on Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:04 am

Ika Pakao wrote:Maybe it can be a random capital and a random tribe?


That is what kabanellas tried above. Unfortunately you can only have one <positions> tag.
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby Ika Pakao on Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:13 am

Gilligan wrote:
Ika Pakao wrote:Maybe it can be a random capital and a random tribe?


That is what kabanellas tried above. Unfortunately you can only have one <positions> tag.


I'm sorry. I'm illiterate when it comes to coding.
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby Dukasaur on Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:24 am

All this obsession with "balancing" ruins so many good maps. Don't worry about it. Sometimes you get a great drop, sometimes you get a shitty drop. The "balance" comes in playing enough games over time that your greats and shits even out.

Give it fixed starting positions and you could dumb this thing down to the level of Feudal War, and that would be a truly horrible end for a wonderful map.
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby Kabanellas on Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:58 am

that's why I need 2 starting positions tags - tribes and capitals could never be related.

Basically everything would stay the same. We'll be just taking out the possibility of players getting more capitals than others. All regions will continue to be randomly distributed, including capitals.

We'd be just creating a subdivision between normal distributable regions and capitals. But all randomly distributed the same.
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby nolefan5311 on Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:35 pm

I understand the concern Kaba, I just don't agree that it needs to be done. So, your opponent starts with 3 capitals and you only start with 1. Like Duka said, it's all part of the game. No map is going to be perfectly fair, and this is already one of the most balanced maps out there. Obviously, it's your map and if you want to make the change, then so be it. I'm just going on the record that I don't think it needs to be changed.
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby ender516 on Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:48 pm

koontz1973 wrote:
Oneyed wrote:I must again call for make capitals of dioceses as starting points like in the third crusade map. they do not need to start with 6 units, just distribute them so that each player will has the same number of them. or make them as 2 neutrals from start.

look on this map.
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=11955507

Oneyed

Cannot as the game is fog.

Now that the fog has lifted, it looks to me like yellow started with 6 capitals and blue with 2, which does seem unbalanced.
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:24 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:I'm just going on the record that I don't think it needs to be changed.


+1

Leave it as it is now Kab. I understand what you want to do, but actually it's not possible...

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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby ender516 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:49 pm

Yes, but what is possible and has been suggested a few times, most recently by Ika Pakao in an admirably detailed post, is simply making the capitals starting positions. We wouldn't even need a maximum for 2-player games, as the capitals do not provide a bonus with which to overwhelm an opponent on the first turn.
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby Oneyed on Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:22 pm

ender516 wrote:Yes, but what is possible and has been suggested a few times, most recently by Ika Pakao in an admirably detailed post, is simply making the capitals starting positions. We wouldn't even need a maximum for 2-player games, as the capitals do not provide a bonus with which to overwhelm an opponent on the first turn.


100% agreed.

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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby nolefan5311 on Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:23 am

Oneyed wrote:
ender516 wrote:Yes, but what is possible and has been suggested a few times, most recently by Ika Pakao in an admirably detailed post, is simply making the capitals starting positions. We wouldn't even need a maximum for 2-player games, as the capitals do not provide a bonus with which to overwhelm an opponent on the first turn.


100% agreed.

Oneyed


If the capitals are made starting positions, they will either have to be tied to certain barbarian tribes, or the barbarians tribes will have to be removed as starting positions, both of which are significantly larger changes to the gameplay than making sure an even amount of capitals are distributed.
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby ender516 on Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:46 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:
Oneyed wrote:
ender516 wrote:Yes, but what is possible and has been suggested a few times, most recently by Ika Pakao in an admirably detailed post, is simply making the capitals starting positions. We wouldn't even need a maximum for 2-player games, as the capitals do not provide a bonus with which to overwhelm an opponent on the first turn.


100% agreed.

Oneyed


If the capitals are made starting positions, they will either have to be tied to certain barbarian tribes, or the barbarians tribes will have to be removed as starting positions, both of which are significantly larger changes to the gameplay than making sure an even amount of capitals are distributed.

Whoops, I had forgotten that the barbarians were starting positions. Your statement then is completely correct, and I apologize for keeping this going. Sorry, Oneyed, but until we get a change to the XML which allows independent sets of starting positions (and I would wholeheartedly support such a suggestion), I think we are stuck with the way things are.
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