Three Kingdoms of Korea [Quenched]

[natty dread]

Hwang-sanbeol would make sense from gameplay perspective. Not sure about the historical perspective though. I'll let IH elaborate on that.

[Industrial Helix]

My reasoning behind the green junk is that Gaya had trade relations with Japan and were the primary exporter of technology to Kyushu. They also had political ties of some sort to Yamato Japan. So it makes sense for them to have some sort of sea ability and relation with Japan.

Though, if you guys want the junk to be place at Hwangsanbeol, that would work too as Wa was defeated by Goguryeo in the mouth of the Geum River (which is right about there).

My most favored solution would be another green junk to form a triangle between these three places.

[theBastard]

My reasoning behind the green junk is that Gaya had trade relations with Japan and were the primary exporter of technology to Kyushu. They also had political ties of some sort to Yamato Japan. So it makes sense for them to have some sort of sea ability and relation with Japan.

Though, if you guys want the junk to be place at Hwangsanbeol, that would work too as Wa was defeated by Goguryeo in the mouth of the Geum River (which is right about there).

My most favored solution would be another green junk to form a triangle between these three places.

if there are records that gaya had relations with Japan, why there is -4 if you hold wa and any capital? what about -4 for wa and any capital except bon-gaya?

[natty dread]

if there are records that gaya had relations with Japan, why there is -4 if you hold wa and any capital? what about -4 for wa and any capital except bon-gaya?

I think that would be too complicated. It would also make Gaya too strong, since you could hold Wa + Gaya. Gaya never conquered Japan, nor vice versa.

Gaya is meant more as a small, easy bonus that is easy to annex to either Baekje or Silla.

[natty dread]

For the green junk, we have 3 options:

- add a 4th green junk to hwangsanbeol
- move the bon-gaya junk to hwangsanbeol
- move the bon-gaya junk to aragaya

[theBastard]

the second is the best, I think.

[natty dread]

I don't know, IH has a good point about Gaya & Japan having had past relations, so having the connection in Aragaya would make sense.

Then again, Hwangsanbeol would make sense too, in the sense that the owner of Silla could easily use it to take Tamna which gives additional bonus to Silla - so it would sort of reward Silla for assaulting Baekje, which fits historical facts well.

So there are historical arguments for both options.

Then again, we could also have a green junk in both Aragaya and Hwangsanbeol (or Bon-Gaya & Hwangsanbeol), but it seems a little redundant to me since they are already adjacent to each other.

[theBastard]

there are 3 green junks while others are only 2. what about to do also other colour junks 3?

green junk move from bon-gaya move to aragaya.

add red junk to hwang-sanbeol. - historical connection as IH said. and hwang-sanbeol will be not connect by aragay over sea.

maybe add brown to lelang. - there will be more connections for tang bonus. and I think when these striped areas were part of tang there were any connections.

[Industrial Helix]

Aragaya and Hwangsanbeol.... this seems like the best option.

It just occurred to me... what happens if a player holds Namgyeong and Bongaya... a player shouldn't get both bonuses, the Baekje/Silla bonus system should override. Can we fit this in somewhere?

[natty dread]

Yes. How about "If both capitals are held, larger bonus applies to striped territories"

[natty dread]

Click image to enlarge.

[theBastard]

it would be better with red junk in hwangsanbeol. for what have hwangsanbeol and aragaya connection over sea when they have land border?

[natty dread]

The connection is not just between them. Both can also connect to Kyushu or Tamna.

[theBastard]

The connection is not just between them. Both can also connect to Kyushu or Tamna.

and why not to add red junk to hwangsanbeol? it will has connection with kyushu and honshu. four green junks give too mush assault possibilities. do not forgot that hwangsanbeol and aragaya have land border, so there will be short acess to green junk.

[natty dread]

The green junk in hwangsanbeol is because Tamna gives bonus to Silla, so it gives Silla a reason to invade Baekje.

Also there are other historical reasons for the connections. If you want to know more ask IH, he's the one designing the gameplay.

[theBastard]

The green junk in hwangsanbeol is because Tamna gives bonus to Silla, so it gives Silla a reason to invade Baekje.

Also there are other historical reasons for the connections. If you want to know more ask IH, he's the one designing the gameplay.

then add red junk to aragaya...
and you will have historical connections between gaya and japan as IH mentioned.

[natty dread]

Well, that might make sense, we'll have to see what IH thinks of it.

[Industrial Helix]

Well technically, the historical connections were between Kyushu and Gaya, not Honshu and Gaya... but that can be overlooked I could be ok for a Red Junk there in Aragaya.

But here's a though... what about getting rid of the Red Junks and just making them green? I mean, all they do is serve a connection between the Japanese Islands. One could have just as sailed to Honshu rather than Kyushu. Plus, I'm starting to like this open sea that is developing in the region and connecting all the islands.

Thoughts?

[natty dread]

But here's a though... what about getting rid of the Red Junks and just making them green?

This could be a good solution. We could have one less Junk in Wa and make the whole southeast area easier to "read".

---

Anyway... me & IH have been discussing the starting territories by pm, and we have them mostly figured out...

The plan is to make capitals into neutral 2:s, and code all the territories that are adjacent to capitals as starting positions, so everyone has an equal chance to grab the capitals at the beginning. The only problem with this is that coding 9 starting positions would cause bad drops for 2-player games (they would start with 12 territories).

The solution for this would be making the territory bonus into 1 for every 4 territories, with a minimum of 3. This way the 12 territory drops wouldn't matter, and it would further highlight the importance of the capitals and castles as sources of troops.

[Riskismy]

The legend has 6 bonus areas, but I can find only 5 capitals (bon-gaya, gyaongju, narig, pyon and qing). Wa is not supposed to have a capital, I gather? In that case, how would you gain the bonus for holding wa territories?

I don't like the idea of having the starts being adjacent to capitals. Narig and qing would have a ball, starting very far from any other player. Maybe it would be an idea to re-arrange the junks and have them work as starting territories. At least that way no players would be safe to take their associated capital right away.

[natty dread]

You misunderstand the concept. All territories except for Wa, capitals or castles start with non-neutral troops. Territories adjacent to capitals are coded as starting positions to ensure everyone has a fair chance to grab a capital in the start.

Having junks as starting territories would be a terrible idea, seeing as they all assault each other.

[Riskismy]

You're right, I don't get it at all. How are 'starting positions' and 'non-neutral' different concepts?

Having junks as starting territories would be a terrible idea, seeing as they all assault each other.

Now you're the one misunderstanding, and intentionally so I suspect. I did say 're-arrange the junks', did I not? I'm not saying it's a good idea 'as is' - just trying to give you an alternative perspective on the problem you're having. And you're welcome.

[natty dread]

How are 'starting positions' and 'non-neutral' different concepts?

You can see a combination of starting positions and regular starting territories on eg. Third Crusade map, where capitals start with 6 each, each player getting an equal amount of capitals, and other territories starting normally with 3:s.

[theBastard]

when you do red junks green and the south sea become so open, it would be huge change to the concept of junks. but it could works. but, will be then others junks as they are - so the rest of sea will be more "closed"?

about starting points. if bordering regions with capitals will be starting points there could be any disadvantages. there are few capitals with only one/two bordering regions what gives to some players hue advantage from the start.

[natty dread]

Again, the starting points wouldn't be the only starting territories. Without these starting positions someone could still drop in those territories. With them, at least everyone gets a chance at some capital.

Yeah, only red junks will be changed. Other junks stay as they are.

What I'm really looking feedback on though, is the 1 troop for every 4 idea. I think this is the only thing that needs to be questioned at this point.