Three Kingdoms of Korea [Quenched]

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [10.10.11] Updates pg1

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:01 am

Okay you two, you need to stop this immediately. This bickering and arguing is not doing anyone any good. The only thing it is doing is making BOTH of you look bad so much so that others will not want to deal with either of you period. This also means people won't want to comment in your maps because they will think that you will just argue about everything. So please get this stopped now.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [10.10.11] Updates pg1

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:02 am

1. I don't use cheap monitors or the like, if there's something where I "waste" tons of money are computer components.
2. I don't see the reason for all this mess, so guys, please chill down BOTH. I never said you're stupid or something like that, so don't put in my mouth words I've not used. I think you're a bit stressed natty...
3. Now, could you please respond to my question, that was really precise. Did you worked on the junks colors?
If the answer is yes, then I'll send the file to lackattck....if not, please do it.(red/teal)

Now please stay on topic.

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [10.10.11] Updates pg1

Postby natty dread on Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:19 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:3. Now, could you please respond to my question, that was really precise. Did you worked on the junks colors?
If the answer is yes, then I'll send the file to lackattck....if not, please do it.(red/teal)


Well, how about you look at the images and figure out if the junk colours are good enough for you? I mean, I don't want to redo this a couple of weeks from now.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [10.10.11] Updates pg1

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:07 pm

These files were sent to lackattack:

Large Version: http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/4477/korea28.png
Small Version: http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/790/korea28s.png
XML: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/download/file.php?id=290

In any case, even if they are good for me, it doesn't mean they are good for the community....you must wait for their feedback, not mine.

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [10.10.11] Updates pg1

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:19 pm

The new files are online. :)

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [10.10.11] Updates pg1

Postby natty dread on Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:32 pm

And this is how they look as jpegs:

Click image to enlarge.
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vs. original:

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [10.10.11] Updates pg1

Postby natty dread on Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:54 am

Is everyone ok with the map now? Can it be quenched?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [10.10.11] Updates pg1

Postby nippersean on Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:07 pm

I hope not Natty.

I respect the effort, time and skill all the mapmakers put in, and have never made a negative comment before....

This map is awful in many respects...gameplay, too many cut-offs + neutrals - I said this about austerlitz but like that foggy dubs now, so i'll be easy on that.

It's ugly - really ugly.
It is very unclear - the bonus regions, the key - you cannot play this without Bob, the ships....

It is very difficult to work out anything on this map, even with experience - I cannot work out what you get bonuses for, what is the bonus region, well I'm getting better at 1/2 hr per turn.

My teammate (a strong player) just mis-deployed 'cos he thought all ships connected - did you not think of colourblind people?

Just a fuckin mess.

This map needs A LOT of work in clarity, gameplay, presentation - right now it's a mess that shudda never gotten into beta.

Sorry if I upset anyone, I do appreciate the skill , hardwork - just looks like this one slipped through the net. For me (and my teammates) btw I win this turn - it's not sour grapes - just a very poor map from a foundry that is better than this.

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [10.10.11] Updates pg1

Postby natty dread on Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:40 am

Well, no one's forcing you to play it.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [10.10.11] Updates pg1

Postby thenobodies80 on Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:03 pm

nippersean wrote:My teammate (a strong player) just mis-deployed 'cos he thought all ships connected - did you not think of colourblind people?


Can I ask which junks (ships) are a problem to distinguish for your teammate?
I want to be sure to not have other colorblind issues on this one before going further with the process. O:)
Said that, I must point out that it is written on the map that only junks with the same color are connected each other.


natty_dread wrote:Well, no one's forcing you to play it.


Natty, you should know that this is not a great answer nor a solution of the current issues.

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [10.10.11] Updates pg1

Postby natty dread on Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:37 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:Natty, you should know that this is not a great answer nor a solution of the current issues.


Sure it is. You can't please everyone, people like different things. Some people love the map, some hate it, just like any other map. That's fine.

I don't see any specific issues being brought up here. Junks connect to junks of same colour, as is stated in the legend. All the bonuses of the map are explained in the legend. If players don't want to take the time to read the rules of the map I can hardly be blamed for that.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [10.10.11] Updates pg1

Postby danryan on Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:44 pm

I haven't played this since early in Beta, since I didn't like the color scheme and found the bonus scheme unbalanced. I can't speak to gameplay, but looking at the map I still see similar visual issues as the original. My 2 cents.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [10.10.11] Updates pg1

Postby natty dread on Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:53 am

danryan wrote:I haven't played this since early in Beta


Yeah thanks. Maybe we can also get input from someone who has.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [10.10.11] Updates pg1

Postby danryan on Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:37 am

natty_dread wrote:
danryan wrote:I haven't played this since early in Beta


Yeah thanks. Maybe we can also get input from someone who has.


You're part of the reason. I mean, you're so reasonable and open to input. Did you fix the completely fucked up bonus structure?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [10.10.11] Updates pg1

Postby natty dread on Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:12 am

Oh no, I've pretty much just been sitting on my ass and masturbating the whole time the map's been in beta. Thank you, come again!
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [10.10.11] Updates pg1

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:31 am

danryan wrote:Did you fix the completely fucked up bonus structure?


Without considering Natty's way to say things (he is certainly not famous to use kind words with people), could you please explain better what are your thoughts?
If you think that bonuses are unbalanced, could you please explain us your proposal for a fix? What do you think is wrong or unbalanced? More details you give to us, better maps we can give to you. ;)

Thanks :)
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [10.10.11] Updates pg1

Postby natty dread on Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:24 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:(he is certainly not famous to use kind words with people),


It makes me sad that you feel that way. :cry:
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [10.10.11] Updates pg1

Postby drunkmonkey on Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:24 am

I have to say, I understand natty's frustration here, and have for a long time. From what I read, the main complaints here are from 1)people who can't be bothered to read the legend and 2)people who haven't played it since early beta? What is so difficult to understand about this map? I thought it was ready to be quenched long ago.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [10.10.11] Updates pg1

Postby danryan on Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:18 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:
danryan wrote:Did you fix the completely fucked up bonus structure?


Without considering Natty's way to say things (he is certainly not famous to use kind words with people), could you please explain better what are your thoughts?
If you think that bonuses are unbalanced, could you please explain us your proposal for a fix? What do you think is wrong or unbalanced? More details you give to us, better maps we can give to you. ;)

Thanks :)
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Fair enough and I took an unnecessary shot at him, since the bonus structure was at the start of beta. Bonuses look a lot more balanced now, I wonder about Goguryeo still being overpowered though. I think before Tang may have been the strongest but the junk locations have helped that a lot. I still think for 1 v 1, for a larger size map, it can get easily out of hand round 1 due to drop.

Graphically it's still hard to read for me (green for some reason really blends in with the grungy background). But not the end of the world, other maps are harder still to read for me.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [10.10.11] Updates pg1

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:23 pm

natty_dread wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:(he is certainly not famous to use kind words with people),


It makes me sad that you feel that way. :cry:


Com'on, you know what I mean ;)

Now, natty what're your thoughts about what danryan said here above?
My only concern on the map was the colorblind issue, but you fixed it.
Danryan has also said he has some problem with the green color but I must admit that it's impossible for a mapmaker try to produce a map that please everyone, so I would say that graphically speaking the map is fine as it is now.

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [10.10.11] Updates pg1

Postby natty dread on Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:56 am

Regarding the colours: the map looks fine through both colourblind filters, and I haven't heard of any specific problems about them. So I'm inclined to think the colours are ok now unless someone can show there are two specific colours which can't be distinguished from each other.

As for gameplay, I think it's fairly balanced now. I don't think Goguryeo is overpowered. Yes, you can get a high bonus on it, but it requires you to grab a large swath of land. It's harder to defend than either Silla or Tang. If one player holds Goguryeo and the other holds the equivalent amount of Silla + Tang territories, I think the one with Silla & Tang has a much stronger, easier to defend position.

As for drops, the drops are coded to be fairly balanced. No one can drop with any bonus, and everyone gets to drop next to capitals.

For that matter, I'd suggest Danryan to play a few games on it before speculating on the gameplay. As a mapmaker I know how hard it is to analyze the gameplay of a map without playing it, it's (partly) the reason we have beta maps. I'm willing to wait for further input, but at the moment I don't see any issues with the gameplay.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [10.10.11] Updates pg1

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:37 pm

              Quenching

---The Beta period has concluded for the Three Kingdoms of Korea Map. All objections have had their time. The Foundry and I hereby brand this map with the Foundry Brand. Let it be known that this map is now ready to be released into live play.

Congratulations natty_dread and Industrial Helix, your shiny new medals are well-earned =D>


Conquer Club, enjoy!
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [Quenched]

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:08 pm

=D> =D> =D> =D> Congratulations to the both of you!!! =D> =D> =D> =D>
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [Quenched]

Postby natty dread on Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:08 pm

Well thanks!
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea [Quenched]

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:24 pm

Welp, Nice work Natty seeing this one through! Sorry about complicating things up with my
danryan wrote:completely fucked up bonus structure
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