Three Kingdoms of Korea [Quenched]

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v6

Postby natty dread on Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:48 am

Nope, the current solution is much better.

We have capital symbols there, which lets the players know what is going on, and we also have the capital names, refering to the exact territories, so players will know for sure which territory they need.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7

Postby natty dread on Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:28 pm

Ok, after discussing all the options, here's what me & IH decided:

- 2 new territories added: Tanma and ? (name to be decided)
- Gaya gets a capital, which is also required to get the Gaya bonus
- Cosmetic changes: lands moved a bit

As for neutrals, now there's 47 territories, of which 5 capitals, 7 castles and 2 Wa-territories start neutral, giving us 33 starting territories, and absolutely no chances to drop any bonuses. 2 player games start with 11 each, 8 player games start with 4 each, rest are something in between...

Here's v7:

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7

Postby Victor Sullivan on Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:08 pm

I thought we decided Wa to be +2...? Seems like a good idea to me, given the deficit, and considering Castles yield +1 for just a single territory. As for the other bonuses, they seem quite out-of-balance - +2 for each territory with a capital?? I mean, given Tang and the easily defensible Quingdao, (not to mention how may territories Tang has (9), that's a potential +17 for just six borders) it just seems over powered. Comments for the other bonus areas:

  • Wa - Some further comments - Why the -4? And won't Wa cause problems if somebody takes it over to start then wants to spread out? Who's gonna take that negative bonus once the Wa guy has a capital? I suppose it could work, but I feel you may have issues with stranded players.
  • Gaya - given all of its territories are striped, those territories are gonna have value to other players, so a +1 for 1 seems warranted, especially given none of those territories are easily guarded. And, since there are only 3 territories plus the capital, one can only get a maximum +1 out of it, as it stands.
  • Silla - Now thinking about it... I think a +2 per 1 with capital can work, given its position and the striped territories and whatnot. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out.
  • Goguryeo - This is good. It allows for more action in the northern and north-eastern portions of the map, that would otherwise be largely ignored.
  • Baekje - Given the castles, I think the bonus will work here.
  • Tang - I think I covered all my concerns with this area already. My suggestion is +1 for 1.

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7

Postby natty dread on Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:33 am

since there are only 3 territories plus the capital, one can only get a maximum +1 out of it, as it stands.


Why do you think the capital isn't included?

Both castles and capitals do count towards area bonuses. (I think.)

Anyway, all other points are good, I would support these changes:

Wa = +2
Tang = +3 for 2
Gaya = +1 for 1
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:52 pm

natty_dread wrote:
since there are only 3 territories plus the capital, one can only get a maximum +1 out of it, as it stands.


Why do you think the capital isn't included?

Both castles and capitals do count towards area bonuses. (I think.)

Anyway, all other points are good, I would support these changes:

Wa = +2
Tang = +3 for 2
Gaya = +1 for 1


Wa... yeah. i can get behind that so long as it still retains that -4 for holding any capital with the bonus.
Tang... I can get behind that as well. Tang needs to be a strong area, but perhaps I might have over done it.
Gaya... I'm not liking it. I don't like the idea of Gaya being a good place to hole up and use as a base of operations. I think it make Gaya too powerful. Their historical function was to be a weak confederacy that was absorbed by Baekje and Silla, the map ought to reflect this towards the middle part of the game.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7

Postby natty dread on Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:02 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:
Anyway, all other points are good, I would support these changes:

Wa = +2
Tang = +3 for 2
Gaya = +1 for 1


Wa... yeah. i can get behind that so long as it still retains that -4 for holding any capital with the bonus.
Tang... I can get behind that as well. Tang needs to be a strong area, but perhaps I might have over done it.
Gaya... I'm not liking it. I don't like the idea of Gaya being a good place to hole up and use as a base of operations. I think it make Gaya too powerful. Their historical function was to be a weak confederacy that was absorbed by Baekje and Silla, the map ought to reflect this towards the middle part of the game.


Well, I think Gaya would still be relatively weak, due to small size and each territory being a border. But I also understand your reasoning, so I'll go ahead and change Tang & Wa.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7

Postby natty dread on Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:16 pm

Wa&Tang changed.. also added some more wear to the edges of the map:

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7.1

Postby theBastard on Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:44 am

I think you coud do more opacity to goguryeo, gaya, tang, baekje. the wa is much more visible as these. and especialy gaya is hard to see. look at bon-gaya region for example.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7.1

Postby natty dread on Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:55 am

I can't make all colours equally dark. That would not work for the colourblind people. With colourblind filters on, some colours looked the same, so some differences in lightness needed to be added to the colours.

There shouldn't be any visibility problems. All colours are visible. Or do you mean something else?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7.1

Postby theBastard on Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:54 am

I did not say darker. I said more opacity.
when you think all colours are good visible go with current version. your map. just goguryeo seems realy too light. and in bon-gaya are stripes enclosed by green sail and capital icon...
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7.1

Postby natty dread on Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:05 am

The opacity is 100%. Goguryeo needs to be that light, otherwise it will look the same as Gaya with colourblind filters on.

You can still see the stripes in Bon-Gaya, so what exactly is the problem there?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7.1

Postby natty dread on Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:17 am

Ok, I tweaked the colour of Goguryeo more towards indigo. If it helps, it helps...

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7.1

Postby theBastard on Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:30 am

it looks much better.

about bon-gaya, I do not know... just when there will be army numbers I´m not sure if it will be clear. the right blue stripe is under green sail, the bottom left is under capital icon. when army number will be on the upper right stripe - this is what I mean.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7.1

Postby natty dread on Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:48 am

Army number doesn't have to go over the blue stripe.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7.1

Postby natty dread on Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:56 am

Looks fine to me:

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...shouldn't the name "Bon-Gaya" be enough of a hint anyway?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7

Postby Victor Sullivan on Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:51 am

natty_dread wrote:
Industrial Helix wrote:
Anyway, all other points are good, I would support these changes:

Wa = +2
Tang = +3 for 2
Gaya = +1 for 1


Wa... yeah. i can get behind that so long as it still retains that -4 for holding any capital with the bonus.
Tang... I can get behind that as well. Tang needs to be a strong area, but perhaps I might have over done it.
Gaya... I'm not liking it. I don't like the idea of Gaya being a good place to hole up and use as a base of operations. I think it make Gaya too powerful. Their historical function was to be a weak confederacy that was absorbed by Baekje and Silla, the map ought to reflect this towards the middle part of the game.


Well, I think Gaya would still be relatively weak, due to small size and each territory being a border. But I also understand your reasoning, so I'll go ahead and change Tang & Wa.

I agree with natty (and by the transitive property, myself :P) here. Gaya would still be pretty weak, given its position and borders. Could Gaya's absorption possibly imply that it was valuable to a certain extent? You could use that philosophy with the increase. Even so, like natty and I said, it'd still be weak and by no means a smart place for a base of operations.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7.2

Postby natty dread on Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:59 am

I wonder if making it +2 for 2 would work.

:-k
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7.2

Postby Victor Sullivan on Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:01 am

natty_dread wrote:I wonder if making it +2 for 2 would work.

:-k

That's a reasonable solution, I think.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7.2

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:34 am

Sorry, a bit lost... +2 for which two territories? Gaya? If its Gaya I think it might be too much. I mean, plus 4 for a region that is only four territories in size? Even if they are all borders... that's a little steep.

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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7.2

Postby natty dread on Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:09 am

Man, I wish there was something in between... 1 for 2 seems a bit low, and 2 for 2 seems too high.

I mean, if you don't also hold Silla, then holding all of Gaya is really hard because Geumgwan-gaya is separated from the rest and behind Silla's capital... So a bonus of 2 really doesn't seem worthwhile for holding all of it. But then a bonus of 4 is too much, because Gaya will be an easy addition to Silla, making Silla + Gaya too powerful...

I think, unless we can find a good compromise, I will side with IH here, we should keep it at 1/2.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7.3

Postby natty dread on Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:22 am

After some discussion, we ended up on Shabei for the name of the new territory.

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And also, after some thought, I think 1/2 for Gaya makes most sense historically. Gaya was not a player in the big league. If it was, the period would be called "Four Kingdoms of Korea"... ;)

So anyway, in a gameplay sense, it should be easy to take for a quick bonus. So how about we lower Bon-Gaya:s neutrals to 2 (as opposed to 3 for other capitals)?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7.3

Postby theBastard on Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:03 pm

looks good now.
just bon-gaya is only capital with junk - I mean only this one capital is possible to attack through sea.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7.3

Postby natty dread on Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:12 pm

theBastard wrote:looks good now.
just bon-gaya is only capital with junk - I mean only this one capital is possible to attack through sea.


Actually, this brings up a good point.

Tamna is one thing, but why would anyone want to assault Kyushu from Bon-Gaya, or vice versa? This seems like a pointless sea route, now.

I think the green junk in Bon-Gaya could be moved to either Muju or Hwang-Sanbeol.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7.3

Postby theBastard on Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:33 pm

natty_dread wrote:
theBastard wrote:looks good now.
just bon-gaya is only capital with junk - I mean only this one capital is possible to attack through sea.


Actually, this brings up a good point.

Tamna is one thing, but why would anyone want to assault Kyushu from Bon-Gaya, or vice versa? This seems like a pointless sea route, now.


also this... :D
natty_dread wrote:I think the green junk in Bon-Gaya could be moved to either Muju or Hwang-Sanbeol.


hwang-sanbeol will be good strategic region with green junk with acess to two capitals and one castle.
hm, maybe also junk from gyaongju could be removed... and from chonsong fortress...?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of Korea v7.3

Postby natty dread on Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:59 pm

theBastard wrote:hm, maybe also junk from gyaongju could be removed... and from chonsong fortress...?


I don't see any reason for doing that.
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