Tribal War - Florida v14.2 [31 Jan 2012] pg27

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Re: Tribal War - Florida v2.1 (Updated info below Map)

Postby DoomYoshi on Sat May 07, 2011 1:01 pm

I find the symbols difficult to make out.
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Re: Tribal War - Florida v2.1 (Updated info below Map)

Postby thenobodies80 on Sat May 07, 2011 4:52 pm

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Re: Tribal War - Florida v2.2 (Updated info below Map)

Postby Seamus76 on Tue May 10, 2011 1:50 pm

UPDATE INFO-2011-05-10:
Based on the feedback provided, we removed 1 warrior from each tribe, 9 total were taken away. This opened the War Zone up a bit, and once we get more into the graphics workshop we will certainly adjust the spacing of those territories to make it all fit right. We added the 3 canoes as actual territories which will start neutral, rather than just being pass throughs. Instead of making impassables we added 2 "Swaps", which start neutral, and lose one warrior per turn until there is only 1 left. They add two small adjustments to players strategies for getting through a region, or for getting from one end to another. They are also needed for a player to receive that regions bonus. The "Additional Bonuses" were adjusted from 5 warriors to 4 warriors needed for the +3 bonus. And the number of starting territories were adjusted to fit more with the new number of territories. In order to meet the golden number of starting positions, one territory within the Timucua War Zone will be coded neutral.

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Last edited by Seamus76 on Tue May 10, 2011 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tribal War - Florida v2.2 (Updated 2011-05-10)

Postby natty dread on Tue May 10, 2011 4:15 pm

Seamus76 wrote:Because we needed to get to a magic number of overall territories we added the 3 canoes as actual territories,


The magic number is not about overall territories, it's the number of starting territories that counts - ie. any territories that start neutral do not count.
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Re: Tribal War - Florida v2.2 (Updated 2011-05-10)

Postby Seamus76 on Tue May 10, 2011 6:16 pm

Thanks natty. All of the information has been adjusted to reflect the update. There are now 44 available starting territories. The 3 canoes will start neutral, and one territory, AP-3, will be coded neutral. Let me know if you have any other thoughts.
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Re: Tribal War - Florida v2.2 (Updated 2011-05-10)

Postby OliverFA on Wed May 11, 2011 7:04 pm

I think it looks better now with the changes ;)

One concern I just realized now. You should start thinking where you are going to place the army numbes. There is no place for army numbers in many territories, such as JE-4, CA-2, CA-1, TN-2 ... Why don't you try to place some fake numbers and see how it looks?
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Re: Tribal War - Florida v2.2 (Updated 2011-05-10)

Postby iancanton on Thu May 12, 2011 2:34 am

there are too many four-way borders: these are places where four regions meet at a point, for example AP2, AI4, CRC and CR4, so that it's unclear whether the regions on opposite side can assault each other. adjust these so that only three regions border at any intersection.

if the eight bonus zones are meant to represent the eight tribes, then why does each chief not live in his home area instead of elsewhere? the chiefs ought to start neutral (2 neutrals each) because of their importance to bonuses.

try making a bow-and-arrrow different from a tomahawk, for example the bow-and-arrow bonus might be +2 for each chief held.

in the legend, instead of tribe/region, call the bonus zones tribal domains or something similar that matches the theme.

ian. :)
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Re: Tribal War - Florida v3.0(Updated 2011-05-17

Postby Seamus76 on Mon May 16, 2011 11:10 pm

UPDATE INFO-2011-05-17:
We adjusted the entire map size, which opened it up a bit more. We also redid all of the territory boarders and removed all of the four-way boarders, as well as included preliminary army numbers to give a better visual. I will comment more on the the territory placement, etc. shortly, but wanted to get v3.0 up for commenting.

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Re: Tribal War - Florida v3.0(Updated 2011-05-17)

Postby The Bison King on Tue May 17, 2011 9:00 pm

This is an interesting map. I really like the war zone, I think having a free range area is a pretty cool idea. I don't think you need to mention that only the conquistador can attack the Spanish fort, I think that's pretty clear. I almost wish there was a 2nd Spanish fort some where. Just having the one seems kind of lonely. The +3 is a pretty nice perk but it's tucked away in a corner that's pretty useless.

Also do "warriors" refer to territories with a tribal symbol? that's a little unclear in the legend. If that's what that means maybe where it says "tribal symbol" in the legend should say "warrior symbol"
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Re: Tribal War - Florida v3.0(Updated 2011-05-17)

Postby The Bison King on Tue May 17, 2011 9:03 pm

No wait, it doesn't does it? ok I'm a little confused as to the purpose of territories marked with a tribal symbol.
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Re: Tribal War - Florida v3.0(Updated 2011-05-17)

Postby Seamus76 on Thu May 19, 2011 11:19 am

Thanks everyone. I can try to clarify the game play on the map.
Also do "warriors" refer to territories with a tribal symbol? that's a little unclear in the legend. If that's what that means maybe where it says "tribal symbol" in the legend should say "warrior symbol"

Yes each symbol represents a tribe, but it may help to think about this with the Prison Riot map in mind. That is going to be the closest thing out there I think. Basically the 9 tribes in Florida (the gangs), each has a Chief, much like the "gang leader". Instead of colors to represent the tribes (gangs), we have used symbols. Each symbol represents a different tribe. Will changing that wording make if more clear, I'm not sure it does, but I've been looking at this map for weeks so I know it's different from the outside in.
if the eight bonus zones are meant to represent the eight tribes, then why does each chief not live in his home area instead of elsewhere? the chiefs ought to start neutral (2 neutrals each) because of their importance to bonuses.

There are 9 tribes, but only 8 bonus zones. The chiefs are spread out, and were basically assigned locations randomly, but if there needs to be a back story, they are out in battle with their warriors much like the chiefs would do. With the Miccosukee region being only one territory I wouldn't want to have that be a chief, but if that makes the most sense for playability, or makes for more strategic play I can deal with it. One thought might be to have all of the chiefs in the war zone, not starting neutral though. Then it would be harder to hold those bonuses, and make for more fierce competition.
(For the fort) The +3 is a pretty nice perk but it's tucked away in a corner that's pretty useless.

I think you're right, instead of an auto deploy, it would be better as just a +3 for holding the fort. That will make for even more competition and fighting if someone takes it.
try making a bow-and-arrow different from a tomahawk, for example the bow-and-arrow bonus might be +2 for each chief held.

For this we're just trying to keep it simple. Less is more. And, there is already a lot already going on with the symbols that we want to keep the textual descriptions and explanations as concise as we can.
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Re: Tribal War - Florida v3.0(Updated 2011-05-17)

Postby ender516 on Thu May 19, 2011 10:40 pm

There's a typo in the legend: "tare" should be "tear".
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Re: Tribal War - Florida v3.0(Updated 2011-05-17)

Postby Seamus76 on Fri May 20, 2011 9:23 am

Got it. What else?
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Re: Tribal War - Florida v3.1(Map Updated 2011-05-21)

Postby Seamus76 on Sat May 21, 2011 12:05 am

UPDATE INFO-2011-05-21:
Fixed the grammatical error, and tried to give more clarity in the legend description. Changed the text to reflect the spanish fort being +3 instead of auto-deploy, and to start 3 neutral instead of 4 to make it more tempting. Also added the conquistador as resetting to +2 neutral. We think this is pretty cool.

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Re: Tribal War - Florida v3.1(Map Updated 2011-05-21)

Postby Seamus76 on Mon May 23, 2011 1:14 pm

If anyone has feedback please let us know. We're hungry to keep this moving along.
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Re: Tribal War - Florida v3.1(Map Updated 2011-05-21)

Postby The Bison King on Mon May 23, 2011 2:25 pm

Yeah I have a suggestion. I think in the additional bonus legend it's confusing how you use a specific tribes symbol, and beyond that the only tribe with out a bonus region. That really threw me off until just now. I didn't realize that the bow and moon was just an example, and I thought that every tribe might have some of those floating around.

I would just not include pictures in that section and change the words "Tribal symbol" in the main legend to "Warriors"
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Re: Tribal War - Florida v3.2(Map Updated 2011-05-24; pg4)

Postby Seamus76 on Mon May 23, 2011 11:45 pm

UPDATE INFO-2011-05-24:
Updated both the main legend, and the Additional Bonus legend to help clarify the symbols and their bonus structures.

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Re: Tribal War - Florida v3.2(Map Updated 2011-05-24; pg4)

Postby Seamus76 on Tue May 24, 2011 10:20 am

We made some nice updates early this morning. Thoughts?
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Re: Tribal War - Florida v3.2(Map Updated 2011-05-24; pg4)

Postby MarshalNey on Fri May 27, 2011 4:24 am

Taking a look at this with relatively fresh eyes, I think that:
(1) I'll need a little more time to think upon this map before giving decent guidance, and
(2) There are definitely some clarity issues

Sorry I'm not being more specific, trust me that once the Memorial Day weekend is over I'll have some more concrete suggestions to give. The actual graphics look pretty smooth, btw, and this is an interesting historical presentation of a state. But I've promised to give attention to some other maps that have been waiting quite a while. If you can be patient with my vague thoughts for the next several days, I should be able to deliver a real critique.

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Re: Tribal War - Florida v3.2(Map Updated 2011-05-24; pg4)

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri May 27, 2011 9:05 am

Is there a reason to make the boundaries of Florida have the same northern / western border as the State entity? It might be more with the theme if those border regions were a little less 'precise' and more amorphous.


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Re: Tribal War - Florida v3.2(Map Updated 2011-05-24; pg4)

Postby Seamus76 on Fri May 27, 2011 3:29 pm

Thanks so much guys.

Marshal, I certainly understand and will wait patiently for your feedback.

The map was based on a layout of the tribes during that time period, which did keep pretty much to the current map. There could be some extension into Georgia or something, but not sure if that adds much to the game play, and would love more feedback and ideas.
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Re: Tribal War - Florida v3.2(Map Updated 2011-05-24; pg4)

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri May 27, 2011 4:12 pm

Seamus76 wrote:Thanks so much guys.

Marshal, I certainly understand and will wait patiently for your feedback.

The map was based on a layout of the tribes during that time period, which did keep pretty much to the current map. There could be some extension into Georgia or something, but not sure if that adds much to the game play, and would love more feedback and ideas.

Right, I'm not really suggesting adding more regions, just that 'hard borders' don't seem to really be a part of theme of this map.


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Re: Tribal War - Florida v3.2(Map Updated 2011-05-24; pg4)

Postby iancanton on Mon May 30, 2011 12:05 pm

the conquistador region must reset to the same number of neutrals as the starting number: using the current xml code, starting at 3 and resetting to 2 is not possible.

the three tiny bonus zones at the bottom pose some gameplay difficulties because someone is very likely to pick up one or more of these bonuses from the drop. one way to deal with this situation is for one warrior in each of these tiny bonus zones to start neutral.

the larger zones don't have a big enough bonus to make them attractive relative to the tiny zones, which means the winning strategy will almost always be the same. i suggest +8 or +9 for calusa, +5 for apalachee and +3 or +4 for creek. although throwing in a +15 for the timucua war zone might be irrelevant most of the time, it does seem to be at least as logical as no bonus, as well as making the legend neater.

i still think a bow-and-arrow ought to be different from a tomahawk, even if one is +1 and the other is +2, in which case the +2s can start with one more neutral troop, thereby giving more choices to a player in the war zone. this does not need any more text than u currently have: just replace one of the +1s by a +2.

ian. :)
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Re: Tribal War - Florida v3.2(Map Updated 2011-05-24; pg4)

Postby Seamus76 on Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:16 am

I have addressed most, if not all of these in the latest update, which follows, but here is more in depth response.
Post by iancanton on Mon May 30, 2011 1:05 pm
the conquistador region must reset to the same number of neutrals as the starting number: using the current xml code, starting at 3 and resetting to 2 is not possible.

This has been updated on the first page to reflect the conquistador starting at 2 neutral and resetting to 2 neutral. I also made the spanish fort +5 instead of +3 to make it a bonus people might actually go for.
the three tiny bonus zones at the bottom pose some gameplay difficulties because someone is very likely to pick up one or more of these bonuses from the drop. one way to deal with this situation is for one warrior in each of these tiny bonus zones to start neutral.

That makes sense. One warrior from each of these zones will be coded neutral. To keep the starting positions at a good number the 3 canoes will now be available as starting positions.
the larger zones don't have a big enough bonus to make them attractive relative to the tiny zones, which means the winning strategy will almost always be the same. i suggest +8 or +9 for calusa, +5 for apalachee and +3 or +4 for creek. although throwing in a +15 for the timucua war zone might be irrelevant most of the time, it does seem to be at least as logical as no bonus, as well as making the legend neater.

These have been raised, which makes sense. I had a bonus value on timucua very early on but based on discussion it made more sense that it would never be a bonus that some one could hold and should just not have a value.
i still think a bow-and-arrow ought to be different from a tomahawk, even if one is +1 and the other is +2, in which case the +2s can start with one more neutral troop, thereby giving more choices to a player in the war zone. this does not need any more text than u currently have: just replace one of the +1s by a +2.

I thought this was good, and going with the theme i gave the tomahawk an extra 1 because it must have been harder to kill your enemy up close like that rather than from far away with a bow and arrow. I thought making the bow start at 2 neutral was nice to spur some interest in them.
Postby MarshalNey on Fri May 27, 2011 5:24 am
Taking a look at this with relatively fresh eyes, I think that:
(2) There are definitely some clarity issues

Maybe it's just from looking at this map for so long, but I just don't see where the clarity issues are. I actually think it is one of the more simpler maps there is. I would certainly love more feedback and guidance on this, especially from more people with fresh eyes.
Last edited by Seamus76 on Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tribal War - Florida v3.2(Map Updated 2011-05-24; pg4)

Postby Seamus76 on Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:18 am

UPDATE INFO-2011-06-02:
Made updates to the bonus values, which might still need some work, and added AP-4, TM-4, MI-3 to the list of coded neutral territories to avoid bonuses in those on the drop. Removed the 3 canoes from the coded neutral list to keep the starting number at 44. Updated the info to reflect the conquistador starting at 2 neutral and resetting to 2, rather than starting at 3 and resetting to 2. With that i updated the spanish fort from a bonus of +3 to +5 to make it more likely that someone would go for it. Based on other solid feedback the tomahawk has been updated to a bonus of +2, since it is much harder to kill your enemy up close. I have it staying at a starting value of 3 neutral but changed the bow and arrow to start 2 neutral as a little more temptation for players to go after them.

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