Cuban Missile Crisis [Quenched]

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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v13 page 1)

Postby isaiah40 on Thu May 19, 2011 9:45 pm

Okay another nit pick. The 37 Viggen seams to be a SAAB Viggen 37 with a manufacture start date of 1970, built for the Swedish Air Force. My suggestion is to use the USAF F-102 like this one. This will be more in the time frame of the Cuban Missile Crisis.
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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v13)

Postby Ace Rimmer on Fri May 20, 2011 10:06 am

Victor Sullivan wrote:Sully's Breakdown:
  • Dixie to +2, Haiti to +1
    • Normally, I would be against a change like this, but I feel like these bonuses shouldn't be very hefty, since they aren't the focus of the map.


I think that would make those bonuses too boring, and all the action would be over the ship/missile base bonuses. You don't want to de-value them too much.

Victor Sullivan wrote:
  • Military Bases - Try something like +1 for each missile base, -1 per US-Soviet pair. Adds some flair.


  • That would require making them neutral to start, as I strongly oppose bonuses that you're dropped on any map.

    Victor Sullivan wrote:
  • Hotline and HQs - I say drop the hotline and make the HQs killer neutrals. That way, no one can stack on the HQs while reaping the benefits of all techs in the chain. And, technically, I believe the hotline was installed after this debacle.


  • Technically true, but the invasion craft are not historically accurate either. We'll call it artistic liberty ;)

    Victor Sullivan wrote:
  • Naval Control - Try +1 for 1, makes the tech more worth it. Also, add "US" and "USSR" at the beginning of their respective tech names.


  • I think that would unbalance the naval control too much, it would be the only bonus to shoot for. Naming change agreed with.

    Victor Sullivan wrote:
  • Nuclear Base Control - Maybe something like +2 per base, or +6 for all.


  • I think that would be too overpowering again. What about +1 per missile site? Adding a fourth US missile site, so that would be +4 bonus if you held all the U.S. or Cuban bases. It may need to be more of a bonus for the US ones though as they're sperad out geographically.

    Victor Sullivan wrote:
  • Nuclear Launch - I see two options here: make it an auto-decay 99999... and a -9999... deploy bonus or just make the killer neutrals high.


  • Still thinking about this.

    posting this for now, to be updated later, working on another map revamp.
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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v13 page 1)

    Postby thenobodies80 on Sun May 22, 2011 8:05 am

    Jake!!! :D
    Wow, let me say this looks really good.
    Like VS said, having the two nuclear launch buttons coded as killer neutrals don't allow you to receive a negative bonus for using it. But I don't know if add a decay is a solution: afterall your idea is to punish someone only if he uses the nuclear launch to bombard, not for holding it. With a decay or a negative bonus, you won't lose the region so you'll receive the punishment in any case, you've used the launch or not (Having said that another player doesn't take it or that it isn't nuked cashing spoils).

    About the dotted lines, part of me agree with Natty, I don't know if have different dotted lines is necessary. I spent about 10 mins to understand why there are 2 different connections on the map. And honestly I understood it just because I've read your post:
    jakewilliams wrote:There are only three different dotted lines: one style to show ship to ship connections, one to show ship to land connections, and one to show the connections between the Military Quarantine (to help that bonus stand out). The ship to ship connections have been made nicer.

    I don't have problem if you want to use different connections to prevent confusion where you have few space but in this case, not having them explained somewhere on the map, they may be cause of confusion.

    A question, what's the purpose of the small number on the air base roof?

    The main concern is the launch button :-k
    For now, let me just change this thread to sticky and wait for your next update.
    Looking forward to it.

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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v16 page 2)

    Postby Ace Rimmer on Fri May 27, 2011 1:40 pm

    Hi Joe ;)

    V16:
    Click image to enlarge.
    image


    Changed the graphical border of Huntsville/Tuscaloosa/Mobile/Montgomery
    to include a nuclear base in Hunstville. Now there are four Soviet bases
    and four U.S. bases.

    Changed the bonus structure for the Nuclear Base control operations. It's
    now +1 for each U.S. or Soviet missile base + the operation.

    Added "Soviet" and "U.S." at the front of the Naval Control ops for clarity.

    Replaced the 37 Viggen with the USAF F-102 - both region name and graphics.

    Added another bombard point to Camaguey (Cuban missile base) for the F-4
    Phantom II... gives more use to the jets.

    Replaced 'Ochakov' (Soviet ship above Haiti) with the B-59 submarine which
    essentially mirrors the U.S. jets, however won't start neutral and can
    attack other ships, the Military Quarantine, and bombard the two U.S.
    nuclear bases.

    Changed the way the HQs (Kremlim/White House) can be attacked. Sully raised
    the point that someone could just block all operations through the HQs. Now
    the HQs lose 5 men per turn, and all missile sites can attack the Hotline.
    This gives all operations/HQs much more accessibility.

    Added a top line to the bottom legend to include more explanations.

    Made the green dotted lines a darker shade of blue.

    Changed the U.S. landing craft arrows to match the Soviet ones (consistency).

    Removed "Global social and political views on..." section.
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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v16 page 2)

    Postby koontz1973 on Sat May 28, 2011 9:23 am

    I really like this map and you seem to of put in and continue to put in a lot of work.

    Quick question though as for the life of me I cannot see the answer on the map, what is the reason for the marking (like a tank tread) between the red 88's MQ1 to MQ8?
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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v16 page 2)

    Postby Tisha on Sat May 28, 2011 12:05 pm

    koontz1973 wrote:I really like this map and you seem to of put in and continue to put in a lot of work.

    Quick question though as for the life of me I cannot see the answer on the map, what is the reason for the marking (like a tank tread) between the red 88's MQ1 to MQ8?



    the center bottom, of the lower legend.
    Military Quarantine
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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v16 page 2)

    Postby thenobodies80 on Sat May 28, 2011 7:24 pm

    Time to move on!

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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v16 page 2)

    Postby koontz1973 on Sun May 29, 2011 12:06 am

    Tisha wrote:
    koontz1973 wrote:I really like this map and you seem to of put in and continue to put in a lot of work.

    Quick question though as for the life of me I cannot see the answer on the map, what is the reason for the marking (like a tank tread) between the red 88's MQ1 to MQ8?



    the center bottom, of the lower legend.
    Military Quarantine

    That is why I could not find it. Very hard to see.


    Congrats on the draft stamp. =D> Lets hope this goes all the way.
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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v16 page 2)

    Postby Ace Rimmer on Tue May 31, 2011 7:40 am

    Tisha wrote:
    koontz1973 wrote:I really like this map and you seem to of put in and continue to put in a lot of work.

    Quick question though as for the life of me I cannot see the answer on the map, what is the reason for the marking (like a tank tread) between the red 88's MQ1 to MQ8?



    the center bottom, of the lower legend.
    Military Quarantine


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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v16 page 2)

    Postby Ace Rimmer on Tue May 31, 2011 1:54 pm

    Gameplay discussion:

    According to Widowmakers' spreadsheet, bonus values should be 3.67 for Dixie, 3.92 for Georgia, 7.5 for Florida, 1.5 for Jamaica, 3.25 for Haiti.

    According to MrBenn's calculator, at least one player will drop the missiles, US ships, and the USSR ships in a 2p/3p game. fairly likely someone will drop the MQ bonus as well.

    We may have to add some neutrals and starting positions to negate these.
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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v16 page 2)

    Postby isaiah40 on Tue May 31, 2011 10:12 pm

    jakewilliams wrote:Gameplay discussion:

    According to Widowmakers' spreadsheet, bonus values should be 3.67 for Dixie, 3.92 for Georgia, 7.5 for Florida, 1.5 for Jamaica, 3.25 for Haiti.

    According to MrBenn's calculator, at least one player will drop the missiles, US ships, and the USSR ships in a 2p/3p game. fairly likely someone will drop the MQ bonus as well.

    We may have to add some neutrals and starting positions to negate these.


    Okay here are a couple of suggestions.
    1. To eliminate any player starting with missiles, start them as neutrals.
    2. Change that one Soviet ship from starting as neutral to starting normal.
    3. Divide Atlanta and put in Dalton, and only connect it to Atalanta and Athens. This shouldn't change the bonus value any.
    4. Put 4 Soviet and 4 US ships as starting neutral to help eliminate the possibility of any player starting with a bonus here as well.

    If my addition is correct this will give you 44 starting territories and 31 territories starting neutral for a total of 75 territories.

    Just what I see.
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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v16 page 2)

    Postby Ace Rimmer on Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:22 am

    V17
    Click image to enlarge.
    image


    Image

    Change log:

    Added "MILITARY QUARANTINE" under the actual Military Quarantine for added clarity. Done in the same style that the U.S. states are done in to keep consistency. Also brightened the glow around the mini-MQ in the bottom legend.
    Added "Calhoun" territory by splitting Atlanta.
    Replaced 88s with actual neutral value numbers since we all know that the 88s can fit, and it's easier to analyse the gameplay now.
    Redrew some of the dotted lines. Some of them may be redrawn further down the line to make them smoother and possibly slightly change the color to improve contrast.
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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v17 page 2)

    Postby isaiah40 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:51 am

    Calhoun will work as well :D

    Looking good!
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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v17 page 2)

    Postby Ace Rimmer on Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:57 am

    Both Calhoun and Dalton are shitholes :lol: I ate at Pizza Hut in Calhoun once, and a very good friend lived there.
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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v17 page 2)

    Postby Ace Rimmer on Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:21 pm

    No comments/feedback in the past week?

    V18: slight changes to the lines
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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v18 page 2)

    Postby isaiah40 on Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:38 pm

    Looking at it, I'm thinking you are going to have a problem with the legends on the small. Is there anyway you can readjust the legends so that the text is readable on both maps? You have some room for the top right game play instructions to be made bigger. You have some extra room down in the bottom left corner.
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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v18 page 2)

    Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:03 am

    I wish I could help more for gameplay, but this map isn't in my comfort zone of maps that I usually play and understand. But I'll give it a look over.


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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v18 page 2)

    Postby Ace Rimmer on Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:49 pm

    isaiah40, I'm not too worried about the legends until we get to GFX - gameplay is more important at this stage, and we may end up supersizing this if it makes sense.

    Andy, thanks. You can play as many 1v1 games against me on this map as you want once it goes beta until you learn how to play these ;)

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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v18 page 2)

    Postby Bruceswar on Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:01 am

    If you ask me I think you can improve on the water background. I know this is not game play related, but might help some of the small visible problems people will have with those lines.

    Also have you looked into other fonts? The font does not seem to match the rest of the map.
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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v18 page 2)

    Postby isaiah40 on Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:02 pm

    The gameplay looks good to me, so I'll go ahead and sticky this.
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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v18 page 2)

    Postby iancanton on Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:22 pm

    i like the gameplay too. there's plenty of strategy, with some elements of arms race in a more open environment. i'm not sure how many regions start neutral, since the first post contradicts itself (31 or 16), but both numbers sound good (assuming there are 75 regions total).

    the +1 for every 3 ships bonus is the only aspect of which i'm not too fond: the bonus is too small to make taking ships worthwhile, so virtually the only purpose it serves is to give a fairly common starting bonus on a lucky drop. this can perhaps be modified to no bonus for ships alone, but +1 per ship (or even +2 per ship) for the naval control operation. this single change ought to be enough to move the map to the graphics workshop.

    neutral values will almost certainly have to be amended when in beta so, being new to the map, i shall not attempt to make a judgement on their suitability here.

    rather than the little-known cornwall county and middlesex county, i suggest using the names of the two best-known jamaican cities, montego bay and kingston.

    ian. :)
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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v18 page 2)

    Postby isaiah40 on Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:36 pm

    This might be the way to go. :-k
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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v18 page 2)

    Postby Ace Rimmer on Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:25 pm

    iancanton wrote:i like the gameplay too. there's plenty of strategy, with some elements of arms race in a more open environment. i'm not sure how many regions start neutral, since the first post contradicts itself (31 or 16), but both numbers sound good (assuming there are 75 regions total).

    the +1 for every 3 ships bonus is the only aspect of which i'm not too fond: the bonus is too small to make taking ships worthwhile, so virtually the only purpose it serves is to give a fairly common starting bonus on a lucky drop. this can perhaps be modified to no bonus for ships alone, but +1 per ship (or even +2 per ship) for the naval control operation. this single change ought to be enough to move the map to the graphics workshop.

    neutral values will almost certainly have to be amended when in beta so, being new to the map, i shall not attempt to make a judgement on their suitability here.

    rather than the little-known cornwall county and middlesex county, i suggest using the names of the two best-known jamaican cities, montego bay and kingston.

    ian. :)


    Thx for the input Ian.

    You're right, 44 starting, fixed the initial post.

    Let me think about the ships. I don't want something just for holding the control, but a way to get the bonus from the ships themselves too. Changing it to require 4 puts the odds of ANY player getting it 26% in 2p, 39% in 3p (according to MrBenn's nifty bonus probability calculator). How low of a number on the probability do we want?

    Yeah, I can agree with the name changes on Jamaica.
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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v18 page 2)

    Postby Industrial Helix on Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:59 pm

    Isaiah asked me to post over here and see what I thought.

    The biggest qualm I have is that the invasion crafts start completely open... I think they shouldn't be attackable by he ships nearby and one should have to go through the government orders to do it. I think it would make that section of government options much more of an attractive place to attack
    and thus bring it in the game more.
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    Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v18 page 2)

    Postby Ace Rimmer on Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:31 pm

    Version 20:

    Click image to enlarge.
    image


    Bruceswar wrote:If you ask me I think you can improve on the water background. I know this is not game play related, but might help some of the small visible problems people will have with those lines.
    Also have you looked into other fonts? The font does not seem to match the rest of the map.


    I think the sea is okay for now and the font is there for legibility. These are issues which we can focus on in the graphics forum - we're on about gameplay for now but I agree that we should make the dotted lines more prominent. Is that change enough or do they need more tweaking?

    Industrial Helix wrote:The biggest qualm I have is that the invasion crafts start completely open... I think they shouldn't be attackable by he ships nearby and one should have to go through the government orders to do it. I think it would make that section of government options much more of an attractive place to attack and thus bring it in the game more.


    I can see your opinion with the Cuban Landing Craft - Cuba is very accessible via SIX points on the Military Quarantine. It doesn't necessarily need another access point via the ships connecting to the Landing Craft. HOWEVER, if we took this connection away, we'd have to take it away from the Soviet Landing Craft into the US, merely for consistency. If we did this, the US would only have 3 access points to 20 territories, and the two jets. I really don't think that's sufficient, especially given that simply getting to the "American Invasion Authorization" would take 3+5+4 neutrals, then another 3+ neutrals (or equivalent) on the actual Landing Craft. Hopefully making the two ships that connect to these neutral (see reasoning below) makes those a little more interesting, since they one-way attack the ground, they are good spots to drop (but not critical to own).

    iancanton wrote:the +1 for every 3 ships bonus is the only aspect of which i'm not too fond: the bonus is too small to make taking ships worthwhile, so virtually the only purpose it serves is to give a fairly common starting bonus on a lucky drop. this can perhaps be modified to no bonus for ships alone, but +1 per ship (or even +2 per ship) for the naval control operation. this single change ought to be enough to move the map to the graphics workshop.


    After looking at was was possible with the XML, I decided to add starting positions to eliminate dropping the ship bonus. There will be 6 starting positions, each with one US and one USSR ship. Each person will get a max of 2, with the unused ones being starting neutrals. In 2p/3p games, that means each player will start with 2 of each type of ship, and in 4p-6p games, each person will start with one of each ship. In 7p/8p, the starting positions are ignored, but there is only a 17% chance of someone dropping 3 ships. We can keep the +1 for 3 bonus without having anyone drop it. To do this, Provomyy and USS Randolph were changed to a neutral 3 each, in addition to changing B-59 from neutral 2 to neutral 3 (so all neutral ships match).

    The Naval Control operation bonus was also changed.

    Image

    The "Bonus w/ Naval Control" column is what we previously had. The far right column is the adjusted new bonus with +2 per 2 ships with the Naval Control operation (including the initial +1 for 3 w/o naval control, so it's a cumulative figure). I think this would make it worth it. What do you think?

    Changes:
    Changed the wording of the Invasion Authorizations to make the bonus more clear.
    Renamed the Jamaican regions.
    Made the dotted lines darker.
    Fixed a small grunge issue (see below)
    Made the Naval Control +2 for every 2 ships of the same nationality rather than +1 for 2.
    Changed Provomyy and USS Randolph to neutral 3. Planned for starting positions to eliminate bonus drop.

    Minor grunge fix:
    Image
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