Cuban Missile Crisis [Quenched]

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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v18 page 2)

Postby isaiah40 on Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:38 pm

Looking at it, I'm thinking you are going to have a problem with the legends on the small. Is there anyway you can readjust the legends so that the text is readable on both maps? You have some room for the top right game play instructions to be made bigger. You have some extra room down in the bottom left corner.
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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v18 page 2)

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:03 am

I wish I could help more for gameplay, but this map isn't in my comfort zone of maps that I usually play and understand. But I'll give it a look over.


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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v18 page 2)

Postby Ace Rimmer on Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:49 pm

isaiah40, I'm not too worried about the legends until we get to GFX - gameplay is more important at this stage, and we may end up supersizing this if it makes sense.

Andy, thanks. You can play as many 1v1 games against me on this map as you want once it goes beta until you learn how to play these ;)

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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v18 page 2)

Postby Bruceswar on Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:01 am

If you ask me I think you can improve on the water background. I know this is not game play related, but might help some of the small visible problems people will have with those lines.

Also have you looked into other fonts? The font does not seem to match the rest of the map.
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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v18 page 2)

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:02 pm

The gameplay looks good to me, so I'll go ahead and sticky this.
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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v18 page 2)

Postby iancanton on Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:22 pm

i like the gameplay too. there's plenty of strategy, with some elements of arms race in a more open environment. i'm not sure how many regions start neutral, since the first post contradicts itself (31 or 16), but both numbers sound good (assuming there are 75 regions total).

the +1 for every 3 ships bonus is the only aspect of which i'm not too fond: the bonus is too small to make taking ships worthwhile, so virtually the only purpose it serves is to give a fairly common starting bonus on a lucky drop. this can perhaps be modified to no bonus for ships alone, but +1 per ship (or even +2 per ship) for the naval control operation. this single change ought to be enough to move the map to the graphics workshop.

neutral values will almost certainly have to be amended when in beta so, being new to the map, i shall not attempt to make a judgement on their suitability here.

rather than the little-known cornwall county and middlesex county, i suggest using the names of the two best-known jamaican cities, montego bay and kingston.

ian. :)
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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v18 page 2)

Postby isaiah40 on Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:36 pm

This might be the way to go. :-k
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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v18 page 2)

Postby Ace Rimmer on Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:25 pm

iancanton wrote:i like the gameplay too. there's plenty of strategy, with some elements of arms race in a more open environment. i'm not sure how many regions start neutral, since the first post contradicts itself (31 or 16), but both numbers sound good (assuming there are 75 regions total).

the +1 for every 3 ships bonus is the only aspect of which i'm not too fond: the bonus is too small to make taking ships worthwhile, so virtually the only purpose it serves is to give a fairly common starting bonus on a lucky drop. this can perhaps be modified to no bonus for ships alone, but +1 per ship (or even +2 per ship) for the naval control operation. this single change ought to be enough to move the map to the graphics workshop.

neutral values will almost certainly have to be amended when in beta so, being new to the map, i shall not attempt to make a judgement on their suitability here.

rather than the little-known cornwall county and middlesex county, i suggest using the names of the two best-known jamaican cities, montego bay and kingston.

ian. :)


Thx for the input Ian.

You're right, 44 starting, fixed the initial post.

Let me think about the ships. I don't want something just for holding the control, but a way to get the bonus from the ships themselves too. Changing it to require 4 puts the odds of ANY player getting it 26% in 2p, 39% in 3p (according to MrBenn's nifty bonus probability calculator). How low of a number on the probability do we want?

Yeah, I can agree with the name changes on Jamaica.
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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v18 page 2)

Postby Industrial Helix on Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:59 pm

Isaiah asked me to post over here and see what I thought.

The biggest qualm I have is that the invasion crafts start completely open... I think they shouldn't be attackable by he ships nearby and one should have to go through the government orders to do it. I think it would make that section of government options much more of an attractive place to attack
and thus bring it in the game more.
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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v18 page 2)

Postby Ace Rimmer on Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:31 pm

Version 20:

Click image to enlarge.
image


Bruceswar wrote:If you ask me I think you can improve on the water background. I know this is not game play related, but might help some of the small visible problems people will have with those lines.
Also have you looked into other fonts? The font does not seem to match the rest of the map.


I think the sea is okay for now and the font is there for legibility. These are issues which we can focus on in the graphics forum - we're on about gameplay for now but I agree that we should make the dotted lines more prominent. Is that change enough or do they need more tweaking?

Industrial Helix wrote:The biggest qualm I have is that the invasion crafts start completely open... I think they shouldn't be attackable by he ships nearby and one should have to go through the government orders to do it. I think it would make that section of government options much more of an attractive place to attack and thus bring it in the game more.


I can see your opinion with the Cuban Landing Craft - Cuba is very accessible via SIX points on the Military Quarantine. It doesn't necessarily need another access point via the ships connecting to the Landing Craft. HOWEVER, if we took this connection away, we'd have to take it away from the Soviet Landing Craft into the US, merely for consistency. If we did this, the US would only have 3 access points to 20 territories, and the two jets. I really don't think that's sufficient, especially given that simply getting to the "American Invasion Authorization" would take 3+5+4 neutrals, then another 3+ neutrals (or equivalent) on the actual Landing Craft. Hopefully making the two ships that connect to these neutral (see reasoning below) makes those a little more interesting, since they one-way attack the ground, they are good spots to drop (but not critical to own).

iancanton wrote:the +1 for every 3 ships bonus is the only aspect of which i'm not too fond: the bonus is too small to make taking ships worthwhile, so virtually the only purpose it serves is to give a fairly common starting bonus on a lucky drop. this can perhaps be modified to no bonus for ships alone, but +1 per ship (or even +2 per ship) for the naval control operation. this single change ought to be enough to move the map to the graphics workshop.


After looking at was was possible with the XML, I decided to add starting positions to eliminate dropping the ship bonus. There will be 6 starting positions, each with one US and one USSR ship. Each person will get a max of 2, with the unused ones being starting neutrals. In 2p/3p games, that means each player will start with 2 of each type of ship, and in 4p-6p games, each person will start with one of each ship. In 7p/8p, the starting positions are ignored, but there is only a 17% chance of someone dropping 3 ships. We can keep the +1 for 3 bonus without having anyone drop it. To do this, Provomyy and USS Randolph were changed to a neutral 3 each, in addition to changing B-59 from neutral 2 to neutral 3 (so all neutral ships match).

The Naval Control operation bonus was also changed.

Image

The "Bonus w/ Naval Control" column is what we previously had. The far right column is the adjusted new bonus with +2 per 2 ships with the Naval Control operation (including the initial +1 for 3 w/o naval control, so it's a cumulative figure). I think this would make it worth it. What do you think?

Changes:
Changed the wording of the Invasion Authorizations to make the bonus more clear.
Renamed the Jamaican regions.
Made the dotted lines darker.
Fixed a small grunge issue (see below)
Made the Naval Control +2 for every 2 ships of the same nationality rather than +1 for 2.
Changed Provomyy and USS Randolph to neutral 3. Planned for starting positions to eliminate bonus drop.

Minor grunge fix:
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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v20 page 3)

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:20 pm

Well jake, that is a good compromise I believe. So I'll give this a few more days to see if anyone has any other comments of suggestions.
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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v18 page 2)

Postby iancanton on Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:39 am

good logic on the landing craft regarding balance between the US and Soviet sides.

jakewilliams wrote:Changed Provomyy and USS Randolph to neutral 3. Planned for starting positions to eliminate bonus drop.

u've spotted an elegant solution provided by the new xml!

since any further potential gameplay issues are likely to be minor and not involving changes to attack routes, let's now move on to graphics.

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ian. :)
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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v18 page 2)

Postby Ace Rimmer on Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:38 am

List of graphics issues/comments that are (possibly) outstanding:

isaiah40 wrote:Looking at it, I'm thinking you are going to have a problem with the legends on the small. Is there anyway you can readjust the legends so that the text is readable on both maps? You have some room for the top right game play instructions to be made bigger. You have some extra room down in the bottom left corner.


Bruceswar wrote:If you ask me I think you can improve on the water background. I know this is not game play related, but might help some of the small visible problems people will have with those lines.

Also have you looked into other fonts? The font does not seem to match the rest of the map.
Last edited by Ace Rimmer on Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis (v20 page 3)

Postby RedBaron0 on Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:41 am

I'll certainly give a proper look over with a bit more time, but you do have a solid image already, so keep it up! Just a quick glance and the thing that pops out right away is the flag icons. Not amazingly accurate, and kinda ugly because of it. I suggest just going with red and white stars which are easier to draw at any size and easily denote which side is which.
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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis [7 July 2011] (v22 page 3, NEW POLL

Postby Ace Rimmer on Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:30 pm

V22:

Click image to enlarge.
image


Fonts addressed first, see first post for poll. Also want feedback to gauge if others want to see a different look to the water.
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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis [7 July 2011] (v22 page 3, NEW POLL

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:35 pm

I like the original fonts you used. IMO they are cleaner and easier to read.
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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis [7 July 2011] (v22 page 3, NEW POLL

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:23 pm

Florida Fonts if I have to choose from these I think.


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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis [7 July 2011] (v22 page 3, NEW POLL

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:53 am

Original font was fine but the Florida is the best of what you have now.
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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis [7 July 2011] (v22 page 3, NEW POLL

Postby Victor Sullivan on Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:56 am

I really like Dixie, myself, though I'd say Georgia would be my second pick. Florida's lower-case a's just bother me for some reason.

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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis [7 July 2011] (v22 page 3, NEW POLL

Postby lostatlimbo on Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:08 pm

Wow! This map looks great. I usually stay away from maps with so many different attack routes & sequences, but this one seems worth it. Complex in a way that is put to good use and stylish graphics. Well done!

Personally, I like Cuba font the best, but I think Florida is a close second.
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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis [7 July 2011] (v22 page 3, NEW POLL

Postby MrBenn on Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:41 am

Waiting for an update ;-)
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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis [1 Aug 2011] (v25 page 4)

Postby Ace Rimmer on Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:15 am

Click image to enlarge.
image


Updates:
Coastal contours
Territory font change
Slight land colour alteration
Replacing the bald eagle image representing the US

BIG THANKS to MrBenn for looking at this and giving some suggestions.
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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis [1 Aug 2011] (v25 page 4)

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:00 am

Looking at the legends, the top legend I think is organized pretty nicely---you've got corresponding items across from one another.

The bottom legend is a little more scattered. For instance, 'Denotes region's ownership' seems to mostly refer to ships, since they are the only regions I see with flags. It seems like it might make more sense to have '+1 for every 3 ships of same nationality' somewhere close to the other ship reference. I'd also maybe consider rewording to make it more consistent across the board, to something like 'Denotes ship alignment' and '+1 for every 3 ships of the same alignment'.

The regular bonus zone board ('Dixie +3, Florida +4') also feels kind of lost in the midst of all the other information. I understand that on a map like this, with a plethora of bonuses, that standard is less important tactically, but I feel like there might be a better placement for it than in the middle of the bottom legend.

The graphics of this map are beyond amazing though. :D


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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis [1 Aug 2011] (v25 page 4)

Postby Ace Rimmer on Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:34 am

I agree Andy, the legend has been an issue all along, and was waiting until it got to this point to address it. To that point... I hereby petition that this be the smaller version of the map and we supersize the larger version. I'm waiting for Joe (aka thenobodies80) to chime in with his thoughts :)
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Re: Cuban Missile Crisis [1 Aug 2011] (v25 page 4)

Postby isaiah40 on Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:17 am

Here are some ideas to move things around a bit before we approve supersize.

The top right area.
1. Move the text "To the White House" over to the left a bit along with the arrow.
2. Move the text "To the Kremlin" and the CCCP logo down under Boyevoy ship.
3. (Not in this area) Move the USS Belle Grove over to the right a bit.
4. Take the story out of the gameplay box and place it at an angle where the USS Belle Grove was.
5. Expand the gameplay box to the left and down.
This will free up some room to where you can expand the box and increase the font size to make it clearer and readable.

Lower left Gameplay instructions
For this area I think you can increase the height of the map by 40px to make room for this area.

Try these suggestions, and post the image and then we'll go from there, deal?
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