Conquer Club

SFR Yugoslavia [Quenched]

Care to peruse completed maps? Take a stroll through the Atlas.

Moderator: Cartographers

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:19 pm

Well the neutral situation is something that pretty much can't be helped. It's a choice between having lots of neutrals or starting with 12 territories...

Personally I think 1v1 plays reasonably well most of the time... 2v2 is the best game type for the map that I've tried. I haven't tried other team games, multiplayer seems to be ok.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby Condestável on Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:18 am

Is this supposed to happen? :mrgreen:
Image

My opponent hasn't played yet, but just started with Vojvodina almost complete and his 4 army territory overthere :mrgreen:

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?gam ... 4#map-cell
Lieutenant Condestável
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:11 am
Location: Portugal

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:16 am

Yeah, things happen sometimes.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:39 am

natty_dread wrote:Well the neutral situation is something that pretty much can't be helped. It's a choice between having lots of neutrals or starting with 12 territories...

Personally I think 1v1 plays reasonably well most of the time... 2v2 is the best game type for the map that I've tried. I haven't tried other team games, multiplayer seems to be ok.

Plays just beautifully with 5 and 7 players.
Image
User avatar
Lieutenant Dukasaur
Community Coordinator
Community Coordinator
 
Posts: 26963
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:49 pm
Location: Beautiful Niagara
32

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:27 am

The above image is the perfect example of what I was trying to say. Not so much for the fact that the player has 3/4 of Vojvodina, but more for the neutral wall in the middle, from Slavonia to titograd (or south kosovo).

And like Andy said, that river doesn't help at all...

Probably in this case I would like to start with a worst number of region than be fucked from the start like the green player in this game.
The neutral on this map are shields for the lucky player, right now in more than 60% of games I checked...:-k

No way to move your coded neutrals in other places?
Maybe this map is beautiful for 5 and 7 players games but certainly they are not the most used game type on this site.

Nobodies
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class thenobodies80
 
Posts: 5400
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:30 am
Location: Milan

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:48 am

thenobodies80 wrote:No way to move your coded neutrals in other places?


Which neutrals would you want moved? The capitals have to be neutral, and the only other coded neutrals are the 3 territories with 2:s.

I don't know if 2-player games can be made any better on this map without radically changing the gameplay. The map works for multiplayer and 2v2 games, and not every map needs to be perfect for 1v1, so I don't really see what I can do, short of allowing 2-player games to start with 12 territories again.

thenobodies80 wrote:Maybe this map is beautiful for 5 and 7 players games but certainly they are not the most used game type on this site.


But 6 and 8 players are, and the map works for those as well.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:18 am

the river? I think that with some work on it you can have a better map without destroying the current layout for 6 and 8 players.

It seems to me you're not so open to changes with your maps lately....
As said the "neutral wall" is not a big issue but it happens very often....this is what I don't like. It seems my cyprus map, but in that map there's a reason to have a wall....i can't find on efor this map. Just that.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class thenobodies80
 
Posts: 5400
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:30 am
Location: Milan

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:52 am

thenobodies80 wrote:the river? I think that with some work on it you can have a better map without destroying the current layout for 6 and 8 players.


What about the river?

It seems to me you're not so open to changes with your maps lately....


If "open to changes" means I can't have any opinions of my own regarding the gameplay design of my maps...

As said the "neutral wall" is not a big issue but it happens very often....this is what I don't like. It seems my cyprus map, but in that map there's a reason to have a wall....i can't find on efor this map. Just that.


Ok, but I still don't see why every map has to be perfect for 1v1 games?

This map wasn't really designed with 1v1 as a priority in the first place, I don't see why I should now jump through hoops to accommodate it for 1v1 games... the map works pretty fine for the game types it was designed for.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:25 pm

So, what exactly is it that you want me to do with this map? I haven't really heard any actual suggestions...
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:12 pm

natty_dread wrote:So, what exactly is it that you want me to do with this map? I haven't really heard any actual suggestions...


AndyDufresne wrote:...though moving around in the center of the map was sometimes troublesome because Doboj-Titovo-Trebinje can effectively be a wall, probably because of the river near Sarajevo.


Remove it. O:)

Nobodies
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class thenobodies80
 
Posts: 5400
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:30 am
Location: Milan

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:02 am

Remove what? The whole river?

Please be more specific.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:42 am

Image

Although, if it was my map I would remove the whole river part to reach syrmia in the north.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class thenobodies80
 
Posts: 5400
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:30 am
Location: Milan

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:43 am

Ok, Doboj already connects with Titovo. So basically, you want Doboj to connect with Trebinje as well?

Just trying to make sure I understand what you're asking for.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:20 am

yes. :)

And as said I would like to have also Doboj that connects with Podrinje (remove the whole river to reach syrmia) but it's a bigger gameplay change, don't know if you like the idea. I'm not forcing you to change the map, just I think that those "random" neutrals doesn't help the player to move around in the central part of the map and that river is just add another obstacle. Don't know, just that i prefer to see players that fight "till the death" in the centre that see them run in the edges protected by central neutrals and impassables, wait and attack when ready using the sea/litoral territories or the northern part of the map. :P

Nobodies
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class thenobodies80
 
Posts: 5400
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:30 am
Location: Milan

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:33 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:yes. :)

And as said I would like to have also Doboj that connects with Podrinje (remove the whole river to reach syrmia) but it's a bigger gameplay change, don't know if you like the idea. I'm not forcing you to change the map, just I think that those "random" neutrals doesn't help the player to move around in the central part of the map and that river is just add another obstacle. Don't know, just that i prefer to see players that fight "till the death" in the centre that see them run in the edges protected by central neutrals and impassables, wait and attack when ready using the sea/litoral territories or the northern part of the map. :P


Yes, but that only applies to 2 player games.

One thing that still hasn't been addressed is, why does this map need to be a good 1v1 map? It plays really well for 2v2, and I'd wager it'd be fine for 3v3 as well... And 5-8p multiplayer works just fine as well.

How about I just remove all the neutral 2:s except for South Kosovo? Then 2-player games will start with 12, but it wouldn't affect the other game types.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby Condestável on Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:29 am

Take a look at Red's advantage in this threesome:

10208422

Red only needs to do one move to get + 2 next round and another move in the same place against a neutral 2 to get + 4 in two rounds only. I can only hope he doesn't come across this post.

Now what can I do besides praying he doesn't advance through Titogrado, Niksic and Adriatic Sea to get + 7 in three rounds?

Do you realise he has at hand: Kosovo, half of the capitals and also the ports in a couple of moves?

He will not win this game only if he has no clue or no luck at all.
Lieutenant Condestável
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:11 am
Location: Portugal

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:50 am

Condestável wrote:Take a look at Red's advantage in this threesome:

Game 10208422

Red only needs to do one move to get + 2 next round and another move in the same place against a neutral 2 to get + 4 in two rounds only. I can only hope he doesn't come across this post.

Now what can I do besides praying he doesn't advance through Titogrado, Niksic and Adriatic Sea to get + 7 in three rounds?

Do you realise he has at hand: Kosovo, half of the capitals and also the ports in a couple of moves?

He will not win this game only if he has no clue or no luck at all.


I don't really see him having that big of an advantage, it's not very likely he can take both of Kosovo territories in the same round. If he takes one of them you have a good chance of breaking it.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby Condestável on Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:10 am

You should do something about the capitals. Maybe reduce their power.

Or maybe you could make the game easier if rules would be completely changed, eg: 1 extra army every 4 territories after 12, That would reduce the neutral barrier headache. So, for example, everyone could start with 15 lands and still an initial 3 army deploy.
Lieutenant Condestável
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:11 am
Location: Portugal

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:00 am

Well, thanks for your opinion. Firstly, let me express how valuable your input is to me and to the whole foundry. I appreciate very much how you take the time to come to this map thread to give your feedback, and the foundry benefits from all of your comments.

Your opinion has been noted and will be taken in consideration when the next update for this map will be made. Again, thanks for your comment.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:17 am

Natty, I didn't get if you're going to remove that small part of river or not.
Not saying you have....

Just to know since this is the only thing that holds this one. If you don't like the idea and considering that the map plays well for all other type of games, I'll quench it if you don't want to change it.
As said everything else looks good to me.

Nobodies
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class thenobodies80
 
Posts: 5400
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:30 am
Location: Milan

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:26 pm

I'm considering it... I don't want to make hasty decisions here.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:13 pm

Ok, I'll remove the impassable there. I'll try to get it done by the end of this week.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:49 am

Natty, just to be sure I don't want you make a change if you're not willing to do it. I asked for that change because I feel that 1vs1 games (the most popular on this site) could be better without that river in the middle (considering we can't work on neutrals).
But if you're absolutely sure that removing that river won't help and maybe it will ruin the other type of games, in particular team games - and I have to admit I don't play team games so often because people don't like to play with "low rank players" (stupid site where points count more than having fun :roll:) - please don't make that change. I've read your response and it seems reasonable to me, as said I didn't play team games on this map so I'm not able to say a word about them.

So my final word is, if the change do not destroy your current good gameplay for team games, please do it. On the opposite leave the map as it is now, just it won't be a so good map for 1vs1.

Nobodies
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class thenobodies80
 
Posts: 5400
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:30 am
Location: Milan

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:35 am

It's ok. I can't imagine it will make that huge a difference in team games or multiplayer. And on the off chance it does, we can always revert back to the current version.

I just have to decide whether I should shorten the river or add another bridge between Doboj/Trebinje...
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:21 am

I would shorten the river, removing also the bridge (and the river) between Doboj and Titovo, so the river will be only between Doboj and Podrinje.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class thenobodies80
 
Posts: 5400
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:30 am
Location: Milan

PreviousNext

Return to The Atlas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users