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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby Condestável on Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:29 am

Take a look at Red's advantage in this threesome:

10208422

Red only needs to do one move to get + 2 next round and another move in the same place against a neutral 2 to get + 4 in two rounds only. I can only hope he doesn't come across this post.

Now what can I do besides praying he doesn't advance through Titogrado, Niksic and Adriatic Sea to get + 7 in three rounds?

Do you realise he has at hand: Kosovo, half of the capitals and also the ports in a couple of moves?

He will not win this game only if he has no clue or no luck at all.
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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:50 am

Condestável wrote:Take a look at Red's advantage in this threesome:

Game 10208422

Red only needs to do one move to get + 2 next round and another move in the same place against a neutral 2 to get + 4 in two rounds only. I can only hope he doesn't come across this post.

Now what can I do besides praying he doesn't advance through Titogrado, Niksic and Adriatic Sea to get + 7 in three rounds?

Do you realise he has at hand: Kosovo, half of the capitals and also the ports in a couple of moves?

He will not win this game only if he has no clue or no luck at all.


I don't really see him having that big of an advantage, it's not very likely he can take both of Kosovo territories in the same round. If he takes one of them you have a good chance of breaking it.
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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby Condestável on Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:10 am

You should do something about the capitals. Maybe reduce their power.

Or maybe you could make the game easier if rules would be completely changed, eg: 1 extra army every 4 territories after 12, That would reduce the neutral barrier headache. So, for example, everyone could start with 15 lands and still an initial 3 army deploy.
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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:00 am

Well, thanks for your opinion. Firstly, let me express how valuable your input is to me and to the whole foundry. I appreciate very much how you take the time to come to this map thread to give your feedback, and the foundry benefits from all of your comments.

Your opinion has been noted and will be taken in consideration when the next update for this map will be made. Again, thanks for your comment.
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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:17 am

Natty, I didn't get if you're going to remove that small part of river or not.
Not saying you have....

Just to know since this is the only thing that holds this one. If you don't like the idea and considering that the map plays well for all other type of games, I'll quench it if you don't want to change it.
As said everything else looks good to me.

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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:26 pm

I'm considering it... I don't want to make hasty decisions here.
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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:13 pm

Ok, I'll remove the impassable there. I'll try to get it done by the end of this week.
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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:49 am

Natty, just to be sure I don't want you make a change if you're not willing to do it. I asked for that change because I feel that 1vs1 games (the most popular on this site) could be better without that river in the middle (considering we can't work on neutrals).
But if you're absolutely sure that removing that river won't help and maybe it will ruin the other type of games, in particular team games - and I have to admit I don't play team games so often because people don't like to play with "low rank players" (stupid site where points count more than having fun :roll:) - please don't make that change. I've read your response and it seems reasonable to me, as said I didn't play team games on this map so I'm not able to say a word about them.

So my final word is, if the change do not destroy your current good gameplay for team games, please do it. On the opposite leave the map as it is now, just it won't be a so good map for 1vs1.

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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:35 am

It's ok. I can't imagine it will make that huge a difference in team games or multiplayer. And on the off chance it does, we can always revert back to the current version.

I just have to decide whether I should shorten the river or add another bridge between Doboj/Trebinje...
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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:21 am

I would shorten the river, removing also the bridge (and the river) between Doboj and Titovo, so the river will be only between Doboj and Podrinje.

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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby Condestável on Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:20 am

natty_dread wrote:
Condestável wrote:Take a look at Red's advantage in this threesome:

Game 10208422

Red only needs to do one move to get + 2 next round and another move in the same place against a neutral 2 to get + 4 in two rounds only. I can only hope he doesn't come across this post.

Now what can I do besides praying he doesn't advance through Titogrado, Niksic and Adriatic Sea to get + 7 in three rounds?

Do you realise he has at hand: Kosovo, half of the capitals and also the ports in a couple of moves?

He will not win this game only if he has no clue or no luck at all.


I don't really see him having that big of an advantage, it's not very likely he can take both of Kosovo territories in the same round. If he takes one of them you have a good chance of breaking it.


Tell me how...

Game 10208422

All happened as I predicted.

He had an initial advantage that no one could break, unless he was not smart to get that or I had sided with green (unlikely I would do such).

Anyway, it's your map.

It's graphically superb, though the territory which is exactly Hungary painted with the yugo flag does not look ok.
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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:21 am

Condestável wrote:Game 10208422

All happened as I predicted.

He had an initial advantage that no one could break, unless he was not smart to get that or I had sided with green (unlikely I would do such).

Yeah, he got a really nice drop, and the odds are stacked against you. It would be no different if you were playing Classic and he got 3/4 of South America, and a neutral on Mexico City to protect him. Nice drops can happen on any map, as can bad ones.
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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:36 am

Dear Customer,
Thanks for your input. Let me assure you that your feedback is valuable to us and the entire Foundry. In this particular case, it is not feasible to implement the changes you suggest, but please do not let it discourage you from leaving further feedback to the maps in the Foundry. Your opinions are valuable to us.

Following are the reasons why your feedback was turned down:

- The map of Yugoslavia is part of the title. It's not meant to represent any land area in that position, and Hungary is not a playable part of the map. No one else has complained about having the flag in that location, so we have no reason to believe this is a problem to most of the players on the site.
- The map is not balanced for 3 player games. In general, 3-player games are among the least balanced of game types on any map. I suggest you try the map on some other game configuration, such as 4-8 player Standard/Terminator or possibly Doubles/Triples team games.
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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby Condestável on Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:22 am

I'm satisfied with the gameplay part. It's your game.

As for the map, it's obvious it's Yugoslavia, and while this is not a Geography or Politics website, justifying that a detailed map of Yugoslavia doesn't mean it's Yugoslavia is quite a stunt.

As for Hungary, naturally people won't complain, because most of them don't know where's Hungary. It's like painting Poland with the German flag and call it irrelevant. Doesn't bother me at all because I'm not the author. Just helping you more than I should care.
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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:45 am

Dear Customer,
We have received your additional notification. We would like to express our gratitude for your continued interest towards our product. Sadly, our Research & Development has informed us that they are not interested in your contribution at this time, but you shouldn't let this discourage you from submitting further suggestions for this or other products.
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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby thenobodies80 on Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:18 am

Stop now.

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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:45 am

What? I'm doing the best I can to give a good experience to the foundry visitors, to ensure that they feel their feedback is being listened even when it's not being accepted. We wouldn't want to drive away commenters by casual comments, now would we?
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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:37 am

Overall, I think I wouldn't mind seeing the river adjusted and some of those internal connections, but I don't think it is a must. From the games I played, the gameplay worked pretty well (from a 1vs1 stand point at least).


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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:47 am

I'll do the river change, then we'll do some more playtesting, and if it sucks we can revert back to the current version.
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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [21.10.11]

Postby natty dread on Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:39 am

XML:
yugo3.xml
(18.8 KiB) Downloaded 27 times


Large:
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Small:
Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [11.12.11]

Postby natty dread on Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:40 am

Is this being uploaded?
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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [11.12.11]

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:11 am

Sent to the turtle, sorry for the little delay.
I fell asleep yesterday so I didn't send the files. :oops:

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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [11.12.11]

Postby natty dread on Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:41 am

Ok, nice.
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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [11.12.11]

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:01 am

The new version should be live now.

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Re: Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia [11.12.11]

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:45 pm

Started a final bunch of 1vs1 to see how it plays. I rarely play team games, so if anyone wants to give a feedback about the new version (with the river change) it would be great!

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