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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V8 - pg.1&6 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby zimmah on Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:35 am

isaiah40 wrote:Okay, I can understand DiM's viewpoint on why he has Oxford the way it is. At the same time I can understand OliverFA's concerns about it being WAY too powerful. I see it as if you have a good number of men on the steam and engines and you take Oxford, you probably won't need to bombard any of your opponents (sunny setting). Now could we have a compromise? Have Oxford only bombard the balloons and ports, or have them bombard the engines, balloons, and ports? In this way Oxford is still strong but not overpowering. Just my couple of pennies for my thoughts.


what if you make oxford bombard engines and balloons, while balloons can attack oxford, docks and other balloons, and docks can just attack oxford and each other?

after all, balloons can fly. (or maybe make balloons only able to bombard docks and not assault them)

if oxford can bombard balloons will somewhat balance the fact that balloons can bombard docks then.

however i'm not sure how it will make sense that oxford can bombard them, but maybe Dr. Dim has some kind of weird anti-flyingmachine prototypes at his lab, who knows.
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby zimmah on Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:54 am

DiM wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:The steam icon should be more in line with the other icons, perhaps stylized like Image


actually i like it like it is now because it fits nicely with the steam in the right side of the map. however if others feel the same way i guess i could change it.




i agree with andy on this one, look at the balloon, look at the dock, look at the engine. now look at the steam. it looks completely different. i think it would look better if it's a black icon like the other 3 symbols.

no offense to your judgement or anything, i just think it looks a bit out of place.

something like this: (in black)
Click image to enlarge.
image

or this
Click image to enlarge.
image
would seem appropiate.

just try to play around with it a little, and see if you can come up with something that matches more with the other symbols.
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby MrBenn on Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:19 am

As an Englander, I have no idea why the "age of steam" or "steamworks" correlates to a divided map of England?
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V5 - pg.1&4 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby DiM on Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:19 am

zimmah wrote:to be honest tho, i think the names are fine like they are now. (i mean on the latest verion not on the one i quoted).


on the version you quoted the names were on top of continents that's why i didn't like them but on the latest version i think they fit perfectly.

zimmah wrote:also, could you clarify how the bonus system works at this point? it understand the continents and the 1 for every steam+engine but i'm not sure if i understand the too much steam damages you engine part.

Let's say i have 2 steam and 1 engine, since i have the bonus for +1 steam and +1 engine, i'd expect +1 bonnus, but since i have more steam then engines i'd get a negative bonus, is this bonus going to make me get +0 or -1?


here are all the combinations:

6S + 6E = +6
5S + 6E = +5
4S + 6E = +4
3S + 6E = +3
2S + 6E = +2
1S + 6E = +1

6S + 5E = -1
5S + 5E = +5
4S + 5E = +4
3S + 5E = +3
2S + 5E = +2
1S + 5E = +1

6S + 4E = -2
5S + 4E = -1
4S + 4E = +4
3S + 4E = +3
2S + 4E = +2
1S + 4E = +1

6S + 3E = -3
5S + 3E = -2
4S + 3E = -1
3S + 3E = +3
2S + 3E = +2
1S + 3E = +1

6S + 2E = -4
5S + 2E = -3
4S + 2E = -2
3S + 2E = -1
2S + 2E = +2
1S + 2E = +1

6S + 1E = -5
5S + 1E = -4
4S + 1E = -3
3S + 1E = -2
2S + 1E = -1
1S + 1E = +1

zimmah wrote:P.S. try doing the poem in darkblue (or maybe dark violet), you know like the dark blue inks. i'm not sure if it's an improvement or not, but it's probably worth a shot.


will give it a shot to see how it looks

zimmah wrote:P.P.S. i'd make the name Oxford slighty bigger then the text 'Isle of Dr. Dim'


will do

zimmah wrote:(yes. i'm nitpicking but since you're also a perfectionist i guess you don't mind.)


of course i don't mind.
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V8 - pg.1&6 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby DiM on Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:24 am

zimmah wrote:
isaiah40 wrote:Okay, I can understand DiM's viewpoint on why he has Oxford the way it is. At the same time I can understand OliverFA's concerns about it being WAY too powerful. I see it as if you have a good number of men on the steam and engines and you take Oxford, you probably won't need to bombard any of your opponents (sunny setting). Now could we have a compromise? Have Oxford only bombard the balloons and ports, or have them bombard the engines, balloons, and ports? In this way Oxford is still strong but not overpowering. Just my couple of pennies for my thoughts.


what if you make oxford bombard engines and balloons, while balloons can attack oxford, docks and other balloons, and docks can just attack oxford and each other?

after all, balloons can fly. (or maybe make balloons only able to bombard docks and not assault them)

if oxford can bombard balloons will somewhat balance the fact that balloons can bombard docks then.

however i'm not sure how it will make sense that oxford can bombard them, but maybe Dr. Dim has some kind of weird anti-flyingmachine prototypes at his lab, who knows.


to be honest it would overcomplicate the map if balloons could attack other balloons and also docks but docks could not attack back.
i honestly like the current version with balloons attacking other balloons and oxford and with ports attacking other ports and oxford. it's very clear for anybody to comprehend, while still giving plenty of movement options around the map.
and oxford bombarding just the engines is also logical as well as fitting the gameplay since it can cripple an enemy's bonus but not destroy him completely an leave him with no chance to come back.
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby DiM on Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:25 am

zimmah wrote:
DiM wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:The steam icon should be more in line with the other icons, perhaps stylized like Image


actually i like it like it is now because it fits nicely with the steam in the right side of the map. however if others feel the same way i guess i could change it.




i agree with andy on this one, look at the balloon, look at the dock, look at the engine. now look at the steam. it looks completely different. i think it would look better if it's a black icon like the other 3 symbols.

no offense to your judgement or anything, i just think it looks a bit out of place.

something like this: (in black)
Click image to enlarge.
image

or this
Click image to enlarge.
image
would seem appropiate.

just try to play around with it a little, and see if you can come up with something that matches more with the other symbols.


will try and make an icon. not sure if i'll use something that stylized though. i mean all the other icons appear to be drawn on the map but still preserve a lot of detail. i'll try doing the same with the steam.
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby DiM on Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:28 am

MrBenn wrote:As an Englander, I have no idea why the "age of steam" or "steamworks" correlates to a divided map of England?


steampunk is often associated with a 19th century victorian england with industrialization overusing steam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steampunk
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby MrBenn on Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:16 pm

DiM wrote:
MrBenn wrote:As an Englander, I have no idea why the "age of steam" or "steamworks" correlates to a divided map of England?


steampunk is often associated with a 19th century victorian england with industrialization overusing steam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steampunk

Yeah yeah... but how does that connect to chopping England into little bits (using modern 21st century boundaries)? Where are the crazy steam inventions?

To be honest I'd much rather you revived the old Age of Dungeons / Quest map you started a couple of years ago...
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby zimmah on Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:06 pm

MrBenn wrote:
DiM wrote:
MrBenn wrote:As an Englander, I have no idea why the "age of steam" or "steamworks" correlates to a divided map of England?


steampunk is often associated with a 19th century victorian england with industrialization overusing steam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steampunk

Yeah yeah... but how does that connect to chopping England into little bits (using modern 21st century boundaries)? Where are the crazy steam inventions?

To be honest I'd much rather you revived the old Age of Dungeons / Quest map you started a couple of years ago...


You're probablt the only one who doesn't lke the idea of this map, it's ok tho, not everyone has the same taste. i like it, like most of dim's maps, and most of the maps that were created 2~4 years ago.
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby natty dread on Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:23 pm

MrBenn wrote:Where are the crazy steam inventions?


Well arguably, a device that chops up england into pieces using steam engines is a crazy steam invention, by definition...
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby zimmah on Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:27 pm

natty_dread wrote:
MrBenn wrote:Where are the crazy steam inventions?


Well arguably, a device that chops up england into pieces using steam engines is a crazy steam invention, by definition...


i thought that was called justice?
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby natty dread on Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:30 pm

Meh, semantics.
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V5 - pg.1&4 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby MrBenn on Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:48 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:And why did you choose areas of England for the territory names? It seems awkward.

I'm not the only one... nobody else has really said anything overtly positive about having chosen England as the basis for the map. I personally think it';s a bit random, and that the map would benefit from being set in some fictional steam-utopia.
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby DiM on Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:12 pm

i believe that steampunk is in close relationship with england hence the choice of map. as for the borders being modern ones, to be honest i have no idea when exactly these borders were created as i'm not a big english history/geography buff. but i wanted them to be like this because:
1. those that actually live in england could easily make a mental connection when watching the map and they can better immerse in a fantasy world
2. it's fantasy so i can basically take 21st century england tear it in pieces and make it a steampunk setting where i play the role of an Evil Doctor that plans to destroy the whole country. if it would have fitted the theme i could have created armies of pink unicorns fighting mechanized sharks. afterall it's FANTASY.

as for age of dungeons, that map is dead for 2 reasons:
1. the xml is more or less in the same stage as it was 3 years ago so some ideas i had for that map are still impossible
2. i no longer have the psd file (but this could be started from scratch in case the xml is improved)
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V5 - pg.1&4 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:23 pm

MrBenn wrote:
Industrial Helix wrote:And why did you choose areas of England for the territory names? It seems awkward.

I'm not the only one... nobody else has really said anything overtly positive about having chosen England as the basis for the map. I personally think it';s a bit random, and that the map would benefit from being set in some fictional steam-utopia.


I don't think I'm in favor of a fictional land, but for a few visits to this topic, I really had no idea England was part of the map's theme. The names wrung a bell, but I really didn't put it together because it was broken up and there was nothing England about it at all.


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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby natty dread on Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:50 pm

I personally like the England connection. It gives the map a nice sort of "what if" undertone, and the way I see it... "what if" scenarios are what Steampunk is all about! Sans the fantasy element, Steampunk as a genre speculates on a type of world where certain aspects of our technology developed faster than others... what if things like cars, robots or computers were invented but electricity or combustion engines weren't, etc.

So I think using England as a basis for the map is well justified thematically, plus it gives it a certain connection to reality that makes the theme even more interesting.
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby DiM on Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:06 pm

natty_dread wrote:I personally like the England connection. It gives the map a nice sort of "what if" undertone, and the way I see it... "what if" scenarios are what Steampunk is all about! Sans the fantasy element, Steampunk as a genre speculates on a type of world where certain aspects of our technology developed faster than others... what if things like cars, robots or computers were invented but electricity or combustion engines weren't, etc.

So I think using England as a basis for the map is well justified thematically, plus it gives it a certain connection to reality that makes the theme even more interesting.


very well said. =D>
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby DiM on Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:13 pm

i feel like the gameplay is ok. the starting neutrals make impossible to get a bonus right from the start, the various bonuses are balanced, the movement across the map is very good with no dead ends or bottlenecks.
what i need is a bit of help rephrasing this: "Too much steam damages your engines. For each steam beyond your engine capacity you lose 1 troop." it needs to let people know that if the number of engines is bigger or equal to the number of steams everything is ok but if the number of steams is bigger than the number of engines you get a bonus of -1 for each surplus steam. the detailed bonuses are here:
show: all combinations of steam and engines


anyway here's a new update.
V10
*new steam icons. hopefully they fit better with all the other black icons
*poem written with dark violet colour
*Oxford bigger than Isle of Dr.DiM

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: SteamWorks - V10 - pg.1&9 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:33 pm

How about -
"Excess steam capacity damages your engines -1"
but what is the measure of the normal steam capacity...i don't see that story anywhere (or am i blind :roll: )

DiM, i can hadly read some of the text on this large map.
I had to zoom in to determine "all ports and balloons"...i though it was "fill"
the font and colour for the story simply doesn't work for me...remember, legibility above all ;)

PS. Try...."Steam and engine numbers must be equal. Excess steam damages your engines -1"
although i don't know if that's too short now, but it may jog your thoughts.
Last edited by cairnswk on Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby MrBenn on Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:36 pm

natty_dread wrote:I personally like the England connection. It gives the map a nice sort of "what if" undertone, and the way I see it... "what if" scenarios are what Steampunk is all about! Sans the fantasy element, Steampunk as a genre speculates on a type of world where certain aspects of our technology developed faster than others... what if things like cars, robots or computers were invented but electricity or combustion engines weren't, etc.

So I think using England as a basis for the map is well justified thematically, plus it gives it a certain connection to reality that makes the theme even more interesting.

Well, as the only Englander to have commented on it, I still think it sucks
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby Victor Sullivan on Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:39 pm

MrBenn wrote:
natty_dread wrote:I personally like the England connection. It gives the map a nice sort of "what if" undertone, and the way I see it... "what if" scenarios are what Steampunk is all about! Sans the fantasy element, Steampunk as a genre speculates on a type of world where certain aspects of our technology developed faster than others... what if things like cars, robots or computers were invented but electricity or combustion engines weren't, etc.

So I think using England as a basis for the map is well justified thematically, plus it gives it a certain connection to reality that makes the theme even more interesting.

Well, as the only Englander to have commented on it, I still think it sucks

Such harsh words! :-k

I think it works, though I do think I'd prefer the borders of the day, rather than today's.

-Sully
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby zimmah on Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:41 pm

very nice job!

as for the phrase, maybe something like:

"too much steam will blow the engine up, not only breaking the bonus, but also lose 1 troop."

maybe someone can rephrase it even better, but i think this is quite clear.

in fact, your original phrase is allready quite good, it's only not clear if it does or does not break the bonus from the engines (altho your explanation tells me it does, it's hard to know from just the map). since the rhyme tells about old england, it would in fact even make sense to use the old english regions instead.

but even so, i have seen much more complicated maps, that usually require you to actually play the map before you actually understand how it works, but that should be avoided as much as possible.


@sully posting above me, if you can tell the borders as they were back in the days (18th/19th century i guess?) to DiM, maybe he'll consider updating it. but like he sad a few pages ago, he doesn't know the layout of england back then.
Last edited by zimmah on Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SteamWorks - V10 - pg.1&9 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby zimmah on Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:43 pm

cairnswk wrote:How about -
"Excess steam capacity damages your engines -1"
but what is the measure of the normal steam capacity...i don't see that story anywhere (or am i blind :roll: )

DiM, i can hadly read some of the text on this large map.
I had to zoom in to determine "all ports and balloons"...i though it was "fill"
the font and colour for the story simply doesn't work for me...remember, legibility above all ;)


i basicly readed All from the first time but now you mention it, it does look like fill a little bit.

maybe the readability could be improved. (especially if a lot of persons have problems with readability)

nice work on the steam btw, it fits much better now with the rest.
Last edited by zimmah on Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:47 pm

zimmah wrote:...
@sully posting above me, if you can tell the borders as they were back in the days (18th/19th century i guess?) to DiM, maybe he'll consider updating it. but like he sad a few pages ago, he doesn't know the layout of england back then.

i found this very quickly from from 1824 (if it helps)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gray1 ... dwales.jpg
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Re: SteamWorks - V10 - pg.1&9 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby MrBenn on Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:51 pm

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