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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V8 - pg.1&6 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby DiM on Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:30 pm

V9 is here:

*changed fonts all over the map
*moved around some legend stuff to make room for the little poem that explains the theme and setting.
*made the continents in the legend much more visible.

what i want now is more feedback on the issue raised by OliverFA. he thinks Oxford bombarding anything makes it too powerful. i like it like that to "force people" to go for it and not just sit around doing nothing. thoughts?


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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V8 - pg.1&6 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:43 pm

Okay, I can understand DiM's viewpoint on why he has Oxford the way it is. At the same time I can understand OliverFA's concerns about it being WAY too powerful. I see it as if you have a good number of men on the steam and engines and you take Oxford, you probably won't need to bombard any of your opponents (sunny setting). Now could we have a compromise? Have Oxford only bombard the balloons and ports, or have them bombard the engines, balloons, and ports? In this way Oxford is still strong but not overpowering. Just my couple of pennies for my thoughts.
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V8 - pg.1&6 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby Victor Sullivan on Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:18 pm

I can understand Oliver's concerns, and isaiah's solution seems good. My thinking is that the one with Oxford (assuming it's guarded enough) would have had to have forfeited bonuses elsewhere, since he has so many troops devoted to bombardment. Plus, the bombarding helps balance out the mere two borders each island has.

At any rate, I think isaiah's solution is a decent one. Just lower Southeast to 4 to adjust for the change.

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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V8 - pg.1&6 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby DiM on Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:26 pm

isaiah40 wrote:Okay, I can understand DiM's viewpoint on why he has Oxford the way it is. At the same time I can understand OliverFA's concerns about it being WAY too powerful. I see it as if you have a good number of men on the steam and engines and you take Oxford, you probably won't need to bombard any of your opponents (sunny setting). Now could we have a compromise? Have Oxford only bombard the balloons and ports, or have them bombard the engines, balloons, and ports? In this way Oxford is still strong but not overpowering. Just my couple of pennies for my thoughts.



let's think about this step by step. what exactly makes Oxford so powerful?

1. it can bombard engines thus breaking bonuses and even more creating negative bonuses.
2. it can bombard steam terits thus breaking powered engine bonuses
3. it can bombard ports and balloons thus disrupting movement across the map
4. and all of the above also break the continent bonuses.

to be honest i'd go either for Oxford bombarding only the engines.this way you can still wreak havoc and destroy the bonuses for the opposition but still leave him with a fighting chance if he has troops in other terits. and it's also plausible. i mean the engines are somehow connected to the lab in Oxford in order to power up the machine for Dr.DiM. but this connection works both ways and using said machine you can also destroy the engines.

thoughts?
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:35 pm

Just the engines would work as well. In this way as you said it would remove the Steam+Engine bonus plus the continent bonus as well. Just enough to disable an opponent, and yet not enough to almost take him/her out and have him/her decide to do a suicide run.
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby DiM on Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:41 pm

isaiah40 wrote:Just the engines would work as well. In this way as you said it would remove the Steam+Engine bonus plus the continent bonus as well. Just enough to disable an opponent, and yet not enough to almost take him/her out and have him/her decide to do a suicide run.


precisely my thoughts. let's say i have an entire continent. if you bombard my engine the next turn i'll have no bonus (no continent, no powered engine) but i'll still have troops in the other terits (3-5 terits) and i'd still be able to take back my engine and try to recover.
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby Victor Sullivan on Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:43 pm

Sounds decent enough to me.

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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby DiM on Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:55 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:Sounds decent enough to me.

-Sully



music to my ears :mrgreen:
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby OliverFA on Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:17 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:Sounds decent enough to me.

-Sully


I also like it :)

And DiM. I made the suggestion with the intention to improve the map, not to spoil your fun as a mapmaker. ;)
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby DiM on Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:24 pm

OliverFA wrote:
Victor Sullivan wrote:Sounds decent enough to me.

-Sully


I also like it :)

And DiM. I made the suggestion with the intention to improve the map, not to spoil your fun as a mapmaker. ;)



then that settles it. unless anybody has an objection in the next update i'll change the legend to include the new info about bombardments.
Oliver, any feedback is good as long as it leads to positive changes. you pointed out a potential flaw, others joined in, we discussed it and we all came up with a potential solution. that's what map making is all about and that's were the fun is. talking, debating, bouncing ideas around and creating a better map.


now that the bombardment is settled, i feel i should lower the continent bonuses. as usual thoughts and ideas are much appreciated.
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby ender516 on Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:36 pm

I preferred the font that you had on the Southeast continent on the sampler map, because it seemed to match the continent labels better. However, the one you've chosen is fine, considering that you changed the continent labels as well. ( I would have commented sooner, but my internet connection is awful lately, and you only had the sampler up about 36 hours before you made your decision.)
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby DiM on Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:17 pm

ender516 wrote:I preferred the font that you had on the Southeast continent on the sampler map, because it seemed to match the continent labels better. However, the one you've chosen is fine, considering that you changed the continent labels as well. ( I would have commented sooner, but my internet connection is awful lately, and you only had the sampler up about 36 hours before you made your decision.)



there's plenty of time for changing the font again when the map goes to graphics sub-forum if anybody has objections towards the current font and if that happens i'll keep in mind your preference.

in the meantime, bellow is the latest map with the updated legend that stipulates Oxford bombards just the engines.

any more gameplay feedback? is the map balanced? are the bonuses ok? is the objective a realistic target?

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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:20 pm

The gameplay looks pretty clear. The only thing that kind of tripped me up for a bit was 'Too much steam damages your engines. For each steam beyond your engine capacity you lose 1 army.' I wasn't immediately sure what engine capacity was, since I didn't see it referenced anywhere else on the map. Does it reference 'engine + steam = power engined' ? Perhaps '1 Engine + 1 Steam = Full Engine Capacity' or something like that to make it more clear. (though I like the phrase 'powered engine').

====

Other minor things:

Army could be changed to 'troop' since that is what we use on CC for official lingo, and army doesn't specifically seemed to be tied to the theme of the map.

The steam icon should be more in line with the other icons, perhaps stylized like Image

'eachother'---as a single world---I'm not sure that exists as a real word.

====

But I like the route this map is going.


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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V9 - pg.1&7 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby DiM on Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:39 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:The gameplay looks pretty clear. The only thing that kind of tripped me up for a bit was 'Too much steam damages your engines. For each steam beyond your engine capacity you lose 1 army.' I wasn't immediately sure what engine capacity was, since I didn't see it referenced anywhere else on the map. Does it reference 'engine + steam = power engined' ? Perhaps '1 Engine + 1 Steam = Full Engine Capacity' or something like that to make it more clear. (though I like the phrase 'powered engine').


each powered engine produces one troop
unpowered engines produce no troops
but too much power blows the engine and you lose 1 troops.

basically like this:
1 engine + 1 steam = 1 troop
2 engines + 2 steam = 2 troops
6 engines + 2 steam = 2 troops
3 engines + 3 steam = 3 troops
2 engines + 3 steam = -1 troop
1 engine + 5 steam = -4 troops

i have phrased this as best as i could but my english skills are limited. so, if you (or others) have a better phrase feel free to share. keep in mind though that it has to be 1-2 lines long to fit the legend.

AndyDufresne wrote:Other minor things:

Army could be changed to 'troop' since that is what we use on CC for official lingo, and army doesn't specifically seemed to be tied to the theme of the map.


Done.

AndyDufresne wrote:The steam icon should be more in line with the other icons, perhaps stylized like Image


actually i like it like it is now because it fits nicely with the steam in the right side of the map. however if others feel the same way i guess i could change it.

AndyDufresne wrote:'eachother'---as a single world---I'm not sure that exists as a real word.


Changed

AndyDufresne wrote:But I like the route this map is going.

--Andy


i'm glad you do.
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Re: [IDEA] SteamWorks - V5 - pg.1&4 - The Island of Dr.DiM

Postby zimmah on Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:14 am

DiM wrote:just added continent names. nothing else. but to be honest i don't really like having the continent names cluttering the map.
people can clearly see the continent bonuses from the minimap and in the log it can appear like this:
"X receives 2troops for holding the Nortwest (Blue continent)"

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image


what if you make a compass in the legend where the continent bonusses are now (since you named them after their compass direction anyway) and put either the color or the shape of the continent in each compass direction, with off course also NW, SE, etc. on it. That would not clutter the map with ugly names as much and still name the territories.

is that even a viable option? might try it.

to be honest tho, i think the names are fine like they are now. (i mean on the latest verion not on the one i quoted).

also, could you clarify how the bonus system works at this point? it understand the continents and the 1 for every steam+engine but i'm not sure if i understand the too much steam damages you engine part.

Let's say i have 2 steam and 1 engine, since i have the bonus for +1 steam and +1 engine, i'd expect +1 bonnus, but since i have more steam then engines i'd get a negative bonus, is this bonus going to make me get +0 or -1?

P.S. try doing the poem in darkblue (or maybe dark violet), you know like the dark blue inks. i'm not sure if it's an improvement or not, but it's probably worth a shot.
P.P.S. i'd make the name Oxford slighty bigger then the text 'Isle of Dr. Dim'

(yes. i'm nitpicking but since you're also a perfectionist i guess you don't mind.)
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