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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us[03.Sep.11] - V8 p1&8

Postby MarshalNey on Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:47 pm

DiM wrote:
MarshalNey wrote: The Tech Victory Objective seems odd to me, however. Why all of level 3? Why not a pair from each level, for instance?


you don't need ALL of level 3. just all of the Human lvl 3 or all of the Alien level 3.

and this is done because there are 4 winning objectives and they all need to be balanced.


I realize that one doesn't need all of level 3, sorry for the miscommunication. I stated two Victory Objectives but what I really should have said was 2 VO's per "side".

And I agree that the VO's seem decently balanced, I just wonder if there might not be a selection of regions that better suits the theme...

DiM wrote:
MarshalNey wrote: I bring it up because tech level 1 seems a bit light in terms of attractiveness. It can be completely ignored in favor of other bonuses and/or the Victory Objectives without detriment.


in order to get to level 2 you first need either a dna lab or a nuke silo. but for the lvl 1 pairs you simply attack from the base. also the lvl 1 techs offer you a bombarding option that no other tech offers. they may not be the best bonuses or the greatest bombardments but the tech lvl 1 represents an alternative and those are the easiest to get bonuses in the first round. if one chooses to ignore them and go for dna/nuke and then lvl 2 then it's their choice. i think it's great to give people choices and create more than one strategy.


Whoops, missed the bombardment instructions tucked away in the corners. Hmmm... that puts a different spin on the importance of Tech Level 1... although I'm not sure that it's a good thing. Between Tech Levels 1 and 2, the whole main map except the bases can be plastered, if I'm understanding correctly.

DiM wrote:
MarshalNey wrote: P.S. The 1st post needs map stats! In particular, list the neutral starts vs. open deployment, the number of regions and the breakdown of the drop (# of regions per players in various sized games such as 2p, 3p, 4p, etc.).


none of the maps have breakdowns for 2p 3p 4p. in fact there are very few maps that have a 1st post that's as organized as mine.
i could even go as far as saying my first post is the most complete 1st post that's present in the foundry right now. none of the other maps contain an update history as complex as mine and very few of them bothered to follow the template or present images with neutrals and starting locations.

MarshalNey wrote: P.P.S. Also need to specifiy starting positions. I'm assuming that the bases are each a starting position, but I'd rather know for certain.


starting positions are clearly shown on the map along with all the neutrals and the gameplay is extensively explained in the first post.
[/quote][/quote]

Sorry to disagree, but the 1st post is bare-bones right now. One can't assume that the map speaks for itself when clarity is still a work in progress (which it is at this stage). Newcomers as well as CAs like myself will be able to make better and faster comments on the map if the essentials are typed up in the 1st post.

I know that it's a pain, but I don't ask any less of any other map thread that I comment upon. (see Rome, for instance). I ask for a player breakdown when it's feasible to do so (i.e., when all of the neutrals are pretty much worked out).

As for the starting positions, they are not clear on the map as starting positions. All they are is colored numbers, which could mean open deployment or starting positions (I assume the former unless stated otherwise).

If there is no desire to clarify, that's up to the mapmaker of course. And you wouldn't be alone. But it will unfortunately hinder my ability to comment intelligibly. You seem keen to get the map progressing forward as quickly as possible, so I'm suggesting an expedient way to do so, as it will save visitors time and effort in analyzing the gameplay.

-- Marshal Ney
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us[03.Sep.11] - V8 p1&8

Postby Victor Sullivan on Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:21 am

Hey DiM, copy-and-paste this into the first post:

Starting Positions:
  • Each player starts with either a Human Base (Home symbol) or an Alien Base (Alien symbol). The Nuke Silos, DNA Labs, and techs start neutral. The rest is dealt out.
Neutrals:
  • Nuke Silos and DNA Labs start neutral 3.
  • The first row of each tech level starts neutral 2.
  • The second row of each tech level starts neutral 3.
  • The bases are underlying neutral 5's.
Attack Routes:
  • Human Bases can attack one way any terit it borders on the map plus both ways the first row of Human Tech 1.
  • Alien Bases can attack one way any terit it borders on the map plus both ways the first row of Alien Tech 1.
  • Nuclear Silos can attack any terit it borders on the map plus the first row of Human Tech 2.
  • DNA labs can attack any terit it borders on the map plus the first row of Alien Tech 2.
  • Tech 1 2nd row can bombard any non-important terit (any region on the world map that does not have a symbol/is not a Nuke Silo, DNA Lab, Human or Alien Base) on the map.
  • Human Tech 2 2nd row can bombard any DNA Lab and one-way attack Human Tech 3 1st row.
  • Alien Tech 2 2nd row can bombard any Nuke Silo and one-way attack Alien Tech 3 1st row.
  • Human Tech 3 1st row can bombard any Alien Base.
  • Alien Tech 3 1st row can bombard any Human Base.
Winning Conditions:
  1. Hold the entire last row of Tech Level 3 on either the Human or Alien side.
  2. Hold all DNA Labs and one Alien Base.
  3. Hold all Nuclear Silos and one Human Base.
Losing Conditions:
  • If one does not hold at least one base (Human or Alien), he is eliminated.
Bonuses:
  • Alien/Human Bases autodeploy +2
  • Nuke Silos autodeploy +1
  • DNA Labs autodeploy +1
  • Tech "pairs" yield +2:
    • H1.1 + H1.4 = +2
    • H1.2 + H1.5 = +2
    • H1.3 + H1.6 = +2
    • A1.1 + A1.4 = +2
    • A1.2 + A1.5 = +2
    • A1.3 + A1.6 = +2
    • H2.1 + H2.4 = +2
    • H2.2 + H2.5 = +2
    • H2.3 + H2.6 = +2
    • A2.1 + A2.4 = +2
    • A2.2 + A2.5 = +2
    • A2.3 + A2.6 = +2
-Sully
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us[03.Sep.11] - V8 p1&8

Postby Victor Sullivan on Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:25 am

Also, I'm fine with sticking to the tech pair bonus, Marshal made some good points, and as I said, I wasn't fully convinced myself.

I would, however, like to reiterate my desire to restrict the territory bonus to the land area (i.e. excluding the tech regions).

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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us[03.Sep.11] - V8 p1&8

Postby DiM on Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:21 am

the 1st post already has all those instructions that sully posted. however i will add his list:

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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us[03.Sep.11] - V8 p1&8

Postby DiM on Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:28 am

MarshalNey wrote:Whoops, missed the bombardment instructions tucked away in the corners. Hmmm... that puts a different spin on the importance of Tech Level 1... although I'm not sure that it's a good thing. Between Tech Levels 1 and 2, the whole main map except the bases can be plastered, if I'm understanding correctly.


yes, except the bases which can be attacked from lvl 3 everything else on the world map can be bombarded either from lvl 1 or from lvl 2.
i doubt it would ever come to such a situation but even if it does i don't see a problem with it. in fact it perfectly fits the theme of aliens coming to earth and fighting us for supremacy.

MarshalNey wrote: Sorry to disagree, but the 1st post is bare-bones right now.


there are a lot of spoilers in the first post in order to keep its scrolling size decent. if you click all those spoilers you'll find all the info you want including what sully just posted. it's in the very first version spoiler.

using that info and the image with the numbers anybody can/should understand how the map works.
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us[03.Sep.11] - V8 p1&8

Postby Victor Sullivan on Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:45 pm

Thanks for editing that in, DiM. Remember, sugarplum, if they're happy, we're happy ;)

-Sully
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us[03.Sep.11] - V8 p1&8

Postby yeti_c on Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:32 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:I would, however, like to reiterate my desire to restrict the territory bonus to the land area (i.e. excluding the tech regions).

-Sully


Remember that doing this will complicate the XML a great deal...

It's not hard XML to write - just an extra lot of it... and there's always the (annoying) force 1 to minus off the bonuses and detract from legibility in the log (see Poker club for an example of annoyance)

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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us[03.Sep.11] - V8 p1&8

Postby Victor Sullivan on Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:02 pm

yeti_c wrote:
Victor Sullivan wrote:I would, however, like to reiterate my desire to restrict the territory bonus to the land area (i.e. excluding the tech regions).

-Sully


Remember that doing this will complicate the XML a great deal...

It's not hard XML to write - just an extra lot of it... and there's always the (annoying) force 1 to minus off the bonuses and detract from legibility in the log (see Poker club for an example of annoyance)

C.

True, though I feel like this would one, make more sense, and two, it makes the regular land territories worth something (over the techs), given there are no 'continents'.

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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us[03.Sep.11] - V8 p1&8

Postby DiM on Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:39 am

V9
*changed all text to 90% opacity as requested
*changed the base bonus to +2
Click image to enlarge.
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us[03.Sep.11] - V8 p1&8

Postby gimil on Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:41 am

The text of the tech levels does not seem to be in line with everything else. But everything else does look sweet!
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us[03.Sep.11] - V8 p1&8

Postby DiM on Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:45 am

things that need discussed:

1. sully's suggestion to restrict the territory bonus to the land area. how would i explain this on the map?
2. research names.
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us[03.Sep.11] - V8 p1&8

Postby DiM on Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:47 am

gimil wrote:The text of the tech levels does not seem to be in line with everything else. But everything else does look sweet!


it actually is set at precisely 90% but that text is bigger and that's why perhaps it looks different.
wait until i get new tech names and we'll see how those fit and what tweaks need to be done.
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us[03.Sep.11] - V8 p1&8

Postby gimil on Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:50 am

DiM wrote:
gimil wrote:The text of the tech levels does not seem to be in line with everything else. But everything else does look sweet!


it actually is set at precisely 90% but that text is bigger and that's why perhaps it looks different.
wait until i get new tech names and we'll see how those fit and what tweaks need to be done.


Must be an illusion making them look different. Visual illusions like these really piss me off :?
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us[03.Sep.11] - V8 p1&8

Postby lostatlimbo on Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:53 pm

DiM wrote:things that need discussed:
2. research names.


Damn. I had some good ideas last time I was perusing this thread, but when I came back, it had been moved to recycling, so I recycled my thoughts!

Human tech ideas:
Artillery or Ballistics
EMPs
Lasers
Nukes

Alien tech ideas:
Gene splicing (as you mentioned previously)
Cloning
Reproduction
Infectious diseases
Infertilization

That's all I got for now.
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Re: All Your Base Are Belong To Us[03.Sep.11] - V8 p1&8

Postby MarshalNey on Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:44 pm

DiM wrote:things that need discussed:

1. sully's suggestion to restrict the territory bonus to the land area. how would i explain this on the map?
2. research names.


(1) "There is no territory bonus for Tech regions." That's about as succinct as I can come up with at this time of night.

(2) I'm assuming that the names for the research will have to be limited to about 4 or 5 characters. Given that...

How about dividing up each 'column' of research into a certain type listed at the very top, then each subsequent region as you go down the line describes an improvement/development.

So for the Alien research, for example, you could have four columns (types) such as:
(TECH 1.1) VIRAL BOTS RAYS PROBES
(TECH 1.2) H1N1 DOOM STUN DEEP
(TECH 2.1) STD T-1000 DEATH MIND
(TECH 2.2) .... etc.

For Human research maybe use some inspiration from Men in Black or X-com (the old computer game series)....
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