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Re: 1982 [14/11] Latest image Page 1/8

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:28 am

lostatlimbo wrote:???
Image


What do you mean by ???

1982 was the year of the conflict.
Guerra de las Malvinas is the name the Argentinians give to the conflict.
Falklands war is the name that the British give it.
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Re: 1982 [14/11] Latest image Page 1/8

Postby lostatlimbo on Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:40 am

Why is it all pixelated? I think it looked better solid a few versions ago.

I also agree with gillipig about the woods. Didn't you try the same look on Rorke's at some point?

I also don't think the sea mines look much like sea mines, but those are just nitpicks and just my opinion.
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Re: 1982 [14/11] Latest image Page 1/8

Postby thehippo8 on Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:45 am

lostatlimbo wrote:???
Image


!!!
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Re: 1982 [14/11] Latest image Page 1/8

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:07 pm

lostatlimbo wrote:Why is it all pixelated? I think it looked better solid a few versions ago.

I also agree with gillipig about the woods. Didn't you try the same look on Rorke's at some point?

I also don't think the sea mines look much like sea mines, but those are just nitpicks and just my opinion.


Sorted out the pixelation. Made the woods darker and they do look less fake. Do not want to go down the route of tree icons. And no, I never did this on Rorke's Drift. How can you draw a mine. It is a half circle with lines coming out of the top. They are small and supposed to be hard to see. I think I did a pretty good job on these.
With that and the anticipation of a stamp, here is the latest large image and the first full image of the small map. Less room than I hoped for on he right so two of the ships are slightly smaller than the others. Added a glow to the small sea territ names as with the smaller font it was a little hard to read. The flags have to be moved also to make room for the army numbers incase of 3 digit games.
Map Image : Large
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Map Image : Small
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All suggestions welcome now. ;)
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Re: 1982 [14/11] Latest images Page 1/9

Postby isaiah40 on Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:08 pm

I am happy with the gameplay, so I do hereby declare 1982 stamped!! The stamp does not constitute the final gameplay, as the mapmaker is still required to address any issue relating to game play after the stamp has been given.
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Re: 1982 [14/11] Latest images Page 1/9

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:17 am

As always isaiah40, thanks.
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Re: 1982 [14/11] Latest images Page 1/9

Postby natty dread on Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:17 am

Ok, so this is in graphics, time for me to step in... ;)

Firstly, the border around the land area looks blocky and pixelated, it's going to need a redraw. There's two ways you can go about this (that I would recommend)...

If you're by now more comfortable with your ability to draw freehand (it can be done with a mouse, it's just kinda tedious) you can do that. Try the ink tool: set the settings so that you set both speed and size variation to 0, and use a round brush (I don't think calligraphy would really fit here) and you can get a much smoother & more consistent line than with the paintbrush tool.

Or if you don't want to do it freehand, you can select your land area and convert the selection to a path. Use the advanced settings, by shift-clicking the selection-to-path icon, and in the advanced settings set both Error treshold and Align treshold to minimum, leave the others to defaults. This gives the best result in most cases in my experience. Now when you have the path of the land shape, you can use it to stroke-path the land border. However, the shape may be slightly different from the existing land shape... so you may want to select the path, use path to selection and use the selection as your new land shape.


Ok, the next thing on the list is... the territory borders. These look nice otherwise but the glows are a bit inconsistent - they look stronger on some areas than others. You should look into that - try playing with the layer modes and the colour & opacity of the glow. Also, the colour of the borders themselves could be made a bit stronger.

Next... the forests look crappy, redo them. Sorry. They just don't fit with the map style, and are too pixelated and noisy - try a smoother style.

The mountains... I get what you're going for with them, but they are going to need more work, as well. Redo them as well.

Then... the bevel on the land area... after you've redone the land borders (and possibly adjusted the land shape if you go via that method) you'll want to look into this. I don't know which method you've used for the bevel but it doesn't quite work - at some places there's some emboss artifacting which doesn't look good. If you used my bevel script it would have settings designed to get rid of this... (shameless self advertising here). Anyway, look for a way to get rid of it. If you have the bevel on a separate layer from the land area (you should) then you could try applying some gaussian blur on it, it may work or may not...

Anyway, I would have more things to say about the icons, title & legend, but I think this is enough for now. If you have any questions regarding the methods I've described feel free to pm me.
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Re: 1982 [14/11] Latest images Page 1/9

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:23 pm

natty_dread wrote:Ok, so this is in graphics, time for me to step in... ;)

Firstly, the border around the land area looks blocky and pixelated, it's going to need a redraw. There's two ways you can go about this (that I would recommend)...

If you're by now more comfortable with your ability to draw freehand (it can be done with a mouse, it's just kinda tedious) you can do that. Try the ink tool: set the settings so that you set both speed and size variation to 0, and use a round brush (I don't think calligraphy would really fit here) and you can get a much smoother & more consistent line than with the paintbrush tool.

Or if you don't want to do it freehand, you can select your land area and convert the selection to a path. Use the advanced settings, by shift-clicking the selection-to-path icon, and in the advanced settings set both Error treshold and Align treshold to minimum, leave the others to defaults. This gives the best result in most cases in my experience. Now when you have the path of the land shape, you can use it to stroke-path the land border. However, the shape may be slightly different from the existing land shape... so you may want to select the path, use path to selection and use the selection as your new land shape.


Ok, the next thing on the list is... the territory borders. These look nice otherwise but the glows are a bit inconsistent - they look stronger on some areas than others. You should look into that - try playing with the layer modes and the colour & opacity of the glow. Also, the colour of the borders themselves could be made a bit stronger.

Next... the forests look crappy, redo them. Sorry. They just don't fit with the map style, and are too pixelated and noisy - try a smoother style.

The mountains... I get what you're going for with them, but they are going to need more work, as well. Redo them as well.

Then... the bevel on the land area... after you've redone the land borders (and possibly adjusted the land shape if you go via that method) you'll want to look into this. I don't know which method you've used for the bevel but it doesn't quite work - at some places there's some emboss artifacting which doesn't look good. If you used my bevel script it would have settings designed to get rid of this... (shameless self advertising here). Anyway, look for a way to get rid of it. If you have the bevel on a separate layer from the land area (you should) then you could try applying some gaussian blur on it, it may work or may not...

Anyway, I would have more things to say about the icons, title & legend, but I think this is enough for now. If you have any questions regarding the methods I've described feel free to pm me.


natty, lots of good things as always.
Border around the land and sea is now done. Same colour as the other territ lines as well.
The glow looked different as the colours under where different so the shades showed through. Turned of for now while I redo them to look the same.
Redid the forests. This should be the last version for them as I refuse to go down the RD route of changing them every draft just because some one does not like them.
The same goes for the mountains. I like them as is and I believe they fit the map. If you have a problem with them, can you be more specific on what it is you dislike so I can fix that part.
Bevel around the land was a bump map. I liked it but have redone it and it does look nicer. See, I do try things out when people point them out to me. ;)
Title, I have redone the backing and see no reason to change now.
Legend I like, it is clear and readable. See no reason to change just because someone does not like the look. But willing as always to have a go if a suggestion is given. ;)
As for the ships, changed them to match the planes more. Might need to go further with this route.
The only icon at the moment that I do not like is the town one which is there for the LZ's. I am one my 20+ version of them and have still not found one I like. Any help here would be great.
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Re: 1982 [19/11] Latest images Page 1/9

Postby pamoa on Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:56 pm

you are doing great some minor suggestions

about southern mountain range
it gave the strange feeling that it's not a border
I think it is because of his colours which are quite the sane as the land around
maybe you should try to put more green inside

landing zone
you should try with a border with the colour of other borders

ships and plane
the graphics are great but to my opinion they blend to much in the background
as your graphic stile is very contrasted
maybe you should try to give them some drop shadow

legend
you have a nice white border to separate each field
why don't you try to put it all around each frame including aircraft's

keep going =D>

edit
a last point
to my opinion you should put a line under the mine fields
it seems empty now
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Re: 1982 [19/11] Latest images Page 1/9

Postby Flapcake on Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:50 pm

the mines you have in the legen look much better than the mines at the map, just a quick comment 8-) ohterwise your goin in the rigth direction
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Re: 1982 [19/11] Latest images Page 1/9

Postby natty dread on Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:16 pm

Well, the land border is better... as far as line work is concerned. I think, however, the border colour is a bit too light. Also, not too sure on that whole bluish-tint to it... I realize you're trying to do something different than the standard black borders, but the current colour just seems kinda faint. Also, at some places the borders are really hard to see now (the westernmost area) and some places they just clash with the land (the brown areas).

I suggest at least making the borders darker, and going from there.

Also, the land colour goes "over the lines" a bit on territories 3MI 3 and 4th 4. On 2Bn 4 the border is cut off from the edge of the map.

As for forests... I'm sorry, but you can't just flat out refuse to work on them further. I've had to do dozens of designs on different impassables on some maps. Current forests are better than the previous ones, but they have this kind of plastic feel to them, which doesn't really seem too forest-y to me.

The mountains... well, the problem is, they don't pop up enough. They look too flat to be impassables, and the two-tone colouring is too jarring, you should go for a more smooth gradient to get the look you're probably going for.

ALZ and BLZ icons: these look too plain and pasted-on, they should also pop up from the map more. The BLZ icons are nearly impossible to read.
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Re: 1982 [19/11] Latest images Page 1/9

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:10 am

pamoa wrote:you are doing great some minor suggestions

about southern mountain range
it gave the strange feeling that it's not a border
I think it is because of his colours which are quite the sane as the land around
maybe you should try to put more green inside

landing zone
you should try with a border with the colour of other borders

ships and plane
the graphics are great but to my opinion they blend to much in the background
as your graphic stile is very contrasted
maybe you should try to give them some drop shadow

legend
you have a nice white border to separate each field
why don't you try to put it all around each frame including aircraft's

keep going =D>

edit
a last point
to my opinion you should put a line under the mine fields
it seems empty now

Can have a look at the southern mountain range, same with the north to keep them symmetrical. Will look at a drop shadow for the ships but as the planes are seen from the side and flying, a drop shadow would look wrong.
Will go with the border around each zone in the legend. That seems it would look nice. But will leave it of the planes strip for now.
Flapcake wrote:the mines you have in the legen look much better than the mines at the map, just a quick comment 8-) ohterwise your goin in the rigth direction

They are identical apart from the size. I shrank them down as on the map they were bigger than the ships. Will make them slightly bigger to be more recognisable.
natty_dread wrote:Well, the land border is better... as far as line work is concerned. I think, however, the border colour is a bit too light. Also, not too sure on that whole bluish-tint to it... I realize you're trying to do something different than the standard black borders, but the current colour just seems kinda faint. Also, at some places the borders are really hard to see now (the westernmost area) and some places they just clash with the land (the brown areas).

I suggest at least making the borders darker, and going from there.

Also, the land colour goes "over the lines" a bit on territories 3MI 3 and 4th 4. On 2Bn 4 the border is cut off from the edge of the map.

As for forests... I'm sorry, but you can't just flat out refuse to work on them further. I've had to do dozens of designs on different impassables on some maps. Current forests are better than the previous ones, but they have this kind of plastic feel to them, which doesn't really seem too forest-y to me.

The mountains... well, the problem is, they don't pop up enough. They look too flat to be impassables, and the two-tone colouring is too jarring, you should go for a more smooth gradient to get the look you're probably going for.

ALZ and BLZ icons: these look too plain and pasted-on, they should also pop up from the map more. The BLZ icons are nearly impossible to read.


The colour is light, that was the reason for the lighter glow, to make then stand out better. Let me get on with the glow and get that right. If it is still too light after that, I will scrap the glow and make the lines the standard black. :(
Will go around the borders to remove any spread of colour between zones.
Not refusing to work on the forests or the mountains natty (when have I ever ;) ), I just needed you to point out what it was that you found wrong about them. The plastic look phrase I can work with and try to sort out.
With te mountains though, they are jagged rocks but what I can do it make the lower third more of a slope than a mountain and then go with jagged rocks.
I know about the LZ icons. I bloody hate them too, just have no idea how to do them. I have tried everything from shiny tiles, matt tiles, round tiles, blah blah blah, even tried to copy Dims villages in his last map. Nothing seems to work. I just need inspiration for them.
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Re: 1982 [19/11] Latest images Page 1/9

Postby natty dread on Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:45 am

koontz1973 wrote:The colour is light, that was the reason for the lighter glow, to make then stand out better.


No no no no no. You don't make light objects stand out by giving them a light glow. A very basic rule to follow is this: dark objects stand out better with a light glow, while light objects stand out better with a dark shadow.

It's all about contrast.

But the biggest problem with the border colour is this: in some places it's lighter than the surrounding colours, in some places it's darker than the surrounding colours. This means there's no consistent contrast between the borders & their surroundings. Which also means a glow or shadow won't fix them, since you can't determine if the borders are "light" or "dark" - they're both, depending on location.

So make it so that they're consistently either clearly darker or lighter from their surroundings, then see if they still need glows or shadows.

koontz1973 wrote:With te mountains though, they are jagged rocks but what I can do it make the lower third more of a slope than a mountain and then go with jagged rocks.


Well I'm not sure if you can do it with a map like this, where the land colour isn't consistent. You would have to make the slope blend in with the land, but in such a way that it's still clear where the impassable starts and ends - meaning the slope probably shouldn't be part of the impassable - but since you have different land colours around the mountains, this gets tricky - the slope would have to follow the colour of the land.

Drawing mountains is one thing where there's really very few shortcuts to learn, in my experience... it's just something you practice and practice and eventually get somewhat good at. You get a sort of feel for it. I could outline the method I use to create mountains in the top-down realistic style, but I'm not sure if it would be useful to you...

koontz1973 wrote:I know about the LZ icons. I bloody hate them too, just have no idea how to do them. I have tried everything from shiny tiles, matt tiles, round tiles, blah blah blah, even tried to copy Dims villages in his last map. Nothing seems to work. I just need inspiration for them.


My suggestion... Make them square tiles with a lighter outline, and give them a very slight drop shadow. I can show you an example of what I mean if you like.
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Re: 1982 [19/11] Latest images Page 1/9

Postby Gillipig on Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:54 am

You can't name it 1982! I mean a ton of things happened in 1982 not just the Falkland war. Why not go with "The Falkland War"??
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Re: 1982 [19/11] Latest images Page 1/9

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:10 am

natty, when I said the colour was light, it was to mean that the colour was lighter than black. But will look into it some more. Will try to post something before I go away.
Tried you idea for the Lz's and did not like it one bit. But I can have another go.
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