Trench warfare 1917 [Quenched]

[Flapcake]

Bonus structure:

No man´s land: All troops (N1 > N18) resets to 1 neutral when new round start.
Shell holes 1-3-4-6 can one way bombard nearest FOX-hole.
Artillery and Aircraft can bombard No man´s land and entire opposite side.
FOX-hole bonus +1 for every 3. +2 for 6. ECT.

Click image to enlarge.

[tokle]

I don't know why qwert doesn't post his ideas here directly, rather than in pms...

But I actually think having bombardment of No-man's land is still a good idea. I think it adds another element that the players have to be observant and know what's going on. Because it might lead to a non-observant or non-experienced player to waste ammo on taking out enemies in no-man's land because they don't realise that they turn neutral. Or they forget.
Another, better point is that it allows you to see no-man's land in fog games. In that way the planes could be considered reconnaissance planes.

You got a very good point, (who hasent in a sleepy moment bombarded a neutral troop, I dident say that )
I can see when you put that way, that it could make some sence.

I think what qwert ment was that it sounded conflicting, perhaps it should be formulated another way, and it could provide a spoil by taking out your opponents sentenced to death troop, you dont get any thing for hitting a 1 neutral troop.

You do get spoils from bombarding neutrals too.

I just thought that when the neutral was down to "1" it could not come down to "0" on bombarding, since one do not take over the area, and you should probably eliminate troops to get spoils? (do it make sense?)

You make sense. But you're wrong. You get a card from bombarding a neutral 1.

[Flapcake]

I don't know why qwert doesn't post his ideas here directly, rather than in pms...

But I actually think having bombardment of No-man's land is still a good idea. I think it adds another element that the players have to be observant and know what's going on. Because it might lead to a non-observant or non-experienced player to waste ammo on taking out enemies in no-man's land because they don't realise that they turn neutral. Or they forget.
Another, better point is that it allows you to see no-man's land in fog games. In that way the planes could be considered reconnaissance planes.

You got a very good point, (who hasent in a sleepy moment bombarded a neutral troop, I dident say that )
I can see when you put that way, that it could make some sence.

I think what qwert ment was that it sounded conflicting, perhaps it should be formulated another way, and it could provide a spoil by taking out your opponents sentenced to death troop, you dont get any thing for hitting a 1 neutral troop.

You do get spoils from bombarding neutrals too.

I just thought that when the neutral was down to "1" it could not come down to "0" on bombarding, since one do not take over the area, and you should probably eliminate troops to get spoils? (do it make sense?)

You make sense. But you're wrong. You get a card from bombarding a neutral 1.

Can the current XML technology sort it out that it wont be possible to get spoils from bomberding neutrals ?

[tokle]

You got a very good point, (who hasent in a sleepy moment bombarded a neutral troop, I dident say that )
I can see when you put that way, that it could make some sence.

I think what qwert ment was that it sounded conflicting, perhaps it should be formulated another way, and it could provide a spoil by taking out your opponents sentenced to death troop, you dont get any thing for hitting a 1 neutral troop.

You do get spoils from bombarding neutrals too.

I just thought that when the neutral was down to "1" it could not come down to "0" on bombarding, since one do not take over the area, and you should probably eliminate troops to get spoils? (do it make sense?)

You make sense. But you're wrong. You get a card from bombarding a neutral 1.

Can the current XML technology sort it out that it wont be possible to get spoils from bomberding neutrals ?

I doubt it.

[koontz1973]

I doubt it.

Bombing a neutral gives you a card. No way to programme it another way. The xml will always give the card.

[Flapcake]

Just to let you all know that Im still alive and havent given up on this.

Gameplay: If the XML can handle this, then this gameplay I find very interesting, it can be possible to bombard your enemy out from opositive site and win (if you stand on each side) but good luck I say, and that was also what the soliders lived with every day in the trenches.

Click image to enlarge.

[isaiah40]

I still say that you should at the very least make the Field Hospitals safe from the bombardment of the airplanes. In FOW, you will be able to see practically the whole map, which negates playing FOW. Also change Felt to Field.

[Flapcake]

I still say that you should at the very least make the Field Hospitals safe from the bombardment of the airplanes. In FOW, you will be able to see practically the whole map, which negates playing FOW. Also change Felt to Field.

Your right about the FOW, but then I think it should include the supply line aswell, course the feild hospital only have 4 areas, but hmm is it possible to make the XML so that you can shoot in blindness ?

felt (danish, sorry)being changed to feild

[isaiah40]

Your right about the FOW, but then I think it should include the supply line aswell, course the feild hospital only have 4 areas, but hmm is it possible to make the XML so that you can shoot in blindness ?

felt (danish, sorry)being changed to feild

Unfortunately the XML can not do that.

Have the airplanes bombard the supply lines, as that is what you want to do in a time of war, disrupt the enemies supply lines, thereby you can defeat him. Yea I knew felt was probably Danish.

I'm thinking how instead of having both airplanes bombard No Mans Land and the majority of the trenches. How about if we have one airplane bombard one half of the trenches, and the other bombard the other half? There is no sense in having an airplane bombard No Mans Land if they reset to 1 neutral anyways.

Concerning the Artillery, I think it would be a good idea to have them only bombard the front lines - again the same as with the airplanes - each one only bombards half of the front lines. For example, C3 can only bombard Fox1-3, D1 & D2, while C4 can bombard Fox4-6, D2 & D4. Doing these two things with the artillery and planes will force players to spread out a little more and take those needed territories. Rename the artillery to something like AA (Allied Artillery), GA (German Artillery). Or just A for artillery. I would prefer AA or GA so players know what side of the map they are on.

Just a thought, maybe you can increase the supply lines to +3, and add in another way to get your supplies to the front lines. Can the planes also attack the territories that are connected to them? If not then do my suggestion above. IMO, I think that the planes should only be able to bombard the opposing side.

You will need to add the abbreviations to the legend, and make sure the trench names match the names in the legend. For example, John J Pershing could be labeled either JP1 through JP6, or J1 through J6. what ever way you do it, you need to place that abbreviation in the legend so people know where that bonus area is.

This is all I have for now. Looking forward to your next update!

[QoH]

felt (danish, sorry)being changed to feild

should be fIEld, not fEIld...

[Flapcake]

felt (danish, sorry)being changed to feild

should be fIEld, not fEIld...

Thanks QoH, my english is poor


Issue 1
Now the reason for bombardment of No mans land was that the resets first take place when a new round starts, then you still can bombard players before ther next turn and ther troop gets gassed, in a 8 player game that can be an advantage in FOW games.

Issue 2
My new legen lokks like this now (Not included bombardment of No mans land, resets is much more terrifying)

No man´s land: All troops (N1 u N18) resets to 1 neutral when new round starts.
Shell holes 1-3-4-6 can one way bombard nearest FOX-hole.
FOX-hole bonus +1 for every 3. +2 for 6. +3 for 9.
Artillery = AC1+AC2 and GC1+GC2. Aircraft = A1+A2 and L1+L2
AC1 + A1 can bombard Fox 7,8,9, E1, E2, GSL1, GSL2, GSL3, GSL4, GC1 and L1.
AC2 + A2 can bombard Fox 10,11,12, E2, E3, GSL1, GSL2, GSL3, GSL4, GC2 and L2.
GC1 + L1 can bombard Fox 1,2,3, D1, D2, ASL1, ASL2, ASL3, ASL4, AC1 and A1.
GC2 + L2 can bombard Fox 4,5,6, D2, D3, ASL1, ASL2, ASL3, ASL4, AC2 and A2.

Issure 3
I have applyed for a superzise stamp, Its not possible for me to scrink this very detailed and each inch exploited map, every thing simply gets to small and vill look squeezed and confusing, its now 850x860

Click image to enlarge.

[isaiah40]

You won't need to go to 860x840, but you can go to 840x840. All you have to do is consolidate the legend somewhat. Since you have the abbreviations in the legend now, I believe you can do something like this, mind you this is on an 840x840 image.

Click image to enlarge.

This is just my suggestion. Others may have other ideas on how to get it done. There won't be a problem of going to 840x840 to get everything into the legend properly. As you can see I also suggest on increasing the Foxhole values. I think these new values will make it worthwhile to take all the foxholes.

[Flapcake]

You won't need to go to 860x840, but you can go to 840x840. All you have to do is consolidate the legend somewhat. Since you have the abbreviations in the legend now, I believe you can do something like this, mind you this is on an 840x840 image.


This is just my suggestion. Others may have other ideas on how to get it done. There won't be a problem of going to 840x840 to get everything into the legend properly. As you can see I also suggest on increasing the Foxhole values. I think these new values will make it worthwhile to take all the foxholes.

Thx isaiah, I realy like your way of breaking up the legend for special bonus, it may well work fine with 840x840 but I have anyway applied for super size as 840x800 is max, Im not sure that this could be the final gameplay, but it is certainly in the right direction.

Il give your suggestion a shot and lets see how the community thinks about it

[Flapcake]

Changes: Gameplay

No man´s land: All troops (N1 --> N18) resets to 1 neutral at starts of next turn.
Shell Holes (S1 --> S4) Bombard closet Fox Hole.

Artillery
Bombardments (AC + GC)
AC1 --> Fox 7-9, EL1 + EL2
AC2 --> Fox 10-12, EL2 + EL3
GC1 --> Fox 1-3, DH1 + DH2
GC2 --> Fox 4-6, DH2 + DH3

Airplane
Bombardments (A1+A2 - L1+L2)
A1 --> GC1, PVH EL + L1
A2 --> GC2, GSL, W + L2
L1 --> AC1, JJP, DH + A1
L2 --> AC2, ASL, FF + A2

Foxhole Bonus
+ 2 for 3
+ 3 for 4
+ 5 for 6

Click image to enlarge.

[Flapcake]

any comments/isue about gamaplay any one ?

[phantomzero]

Question regarding the allied flags. Why choose only those 3?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_casualties

Australia
Canada
Indian Empire
New Zealand
South Africa
Belgium
Greece
Italy
Empire of Japan
Montenegro
Portugal
Romania
Russian Empire
Serbia

Also fought in the war and sustained casualties.

[Flapcake]

Question regarding the allied flags. Why choose only those 3?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_casualties

Australia
Canada
Indian Empire
New Zealand
South Africa
Belgium
Greece
Italy
Empire of Japan
Montenegro
Portugal
Romania
Russian Empire
Serbia

Also fought in the war and sustained casualties.

Yes ther was many ohter countries joined ww1, but there is no room for more trenches and the 3 flags represent the 3 generals / warlords as bonus areas. there are also on the German side Austria-Hungary, Ottoman Empire, Bulgaria, but this is takin out of history and formed like an close up battle, its not the big picture, thats an totaly nohter map, there it is posible to include all the participanted countries.

I could call it "1918 Western Front offensive" it was purely england and france, with support from American soldiers that fought against the German defense line. but this map is not about who participanted, its a trench map, thats what the game play is about. if it can satisfy anyone that it is some other flags then fine with me.

[isaiah40]

Since there hasn't been any other gameplay concerns, I'll send this to the trenches!! Congrats!!

[AndyDufresne]

Yes ther was many ohter countries joined ww1, but there is no room for more trenches and the 3 flags represent the 3 generals / warlords as bonus areas. there are also on the German side Austria-Hungary, Ottoman Empire, Bulgaria, but this is takin out of history and formed like an close up battle, its not the big picture, thats an totaly nohter map, there it is posible to include all the participanted countries.

I could call it "1918 Western Front offensive" it was purely england and france, with support from American soldiers that fought against the German defense line. but this map is not about who participanted, its a trench map, thats what the game play is about. if it can satisfy anyone that it is some other flags then fine with me.

Sounds like a reasonable rebuttal.


--Andy

[koontz1973]

Congrats on the GP stamp. Looks like they are giving them out today.

Some cosmetic changes.

You have made the point yourself about how the Brits and French fought on the western front with help from the US, so can we get the Europe flags in front of the American flag.
German guns, why are they pink. Can we have another look at there colouring. Maybe a green if you want them different to the Allied guns.
Your shell holes are great, but the men look a little plastic and the XXXX tank barriers XXXX look like plastic.
The photo you have is copied from the left to the right side of the map. Can a different photo be found for the right side. Maybe have one with Germans going over the top.
Shell hole next to AC1. Is this a shell hole or an impassable. If neither, can you move it down a tad to stop confusion. Same with the German one at W5 (to the left).
German flag looks blurred.

That should keep you busy for a while.

And again, congrats.

[Flapcake]

Since there hasn't been any other gameplay concerns, I'll send this to the trenches!! Congrats!!

Thanks isaiah40

Yes ther was many ohter countries joined ww1, but there is no room for more trenches and the 3 flags represent the 3 generals / warlords as bonus areas. there are also on the German side Austria-Hungary, Ottoman Empire, Bulgaria, but this is takin out of history and formed like an close up battle, its not the big picture, thats an totaly nohter map, there it is posible to include all the participanted countries.

I could call it "1918 Western Front offensive" it was purely england and france, with support from American soldiers that fought against the German defense line. but this map is not about who participanted, its a trench map, thats what the game play is about. if it can satisfy anyone that it is some other flags then fine with me.

Sounds like a reasonable rebuttal.


--Andy

Thanks Andy

Congrats on the GP stamp. Looks like they are giving them out today.

Some cosmetic changes.

You have made the point yourself about how the Brits and French fought on the western front with help from the US, so can we get the Europe flags in front of the American flag.
German guns, why are they pink. Can we have another look at there colouring. Maybe a green if you want them different to the Allied guns.
Your shell holes are great, but the men look a little plastic and the XXXX tank barriers XXXX look like plastic.
The photo you have is copied from the left to the right side of the map. Can a different photo be found for the right side. Maybe have one with Germans going over the top.
Shell hole next to AC1. Is this a shell hole or an impassable. If neither, can you move it down a tad to stop confusion. Same with the German one at W5 (to the left).
German flag looks blurred.

That should keep you busy for a while.

And again, congrats.

Well thx Koontz,
1.Ofc the europe flags can get up front.
2.Colours of guns, yes it could use a makeover, Il come up with a new look.
3.The dead soldiers and the barriers are the bedst atm I can come up with, Im not that good and photoshop artist that I can draw them in free hand, so i used some pictures of toysoldiers and remodel/shaped them to unrecognizable.
4.Yes the shell holes can be moved, its only for theme visual.
5.Il take a look at german flag.

That should keep me busy for a while.

[DiM]

so now that this got the gameplay badge (congrats, btw) it's time for graphics
in no specific order here are some thoughts:
1. the red arrows are too flashy. they should blend more. also how come a shell hole can bombard a fox hole? logic tells me it should be the other way around. perhaps from a gameplay point of view it's better like it is now but logically it's a bit weird.
2. the shell holes are actually 1 image rotated and copy/pasted all over. the problem with that is that the original image had a light source and a shadow. by rotating it you now have a discrepancy. in one hole the light is in the north on another the light is in the south and so on. i think you should forget the image with the blow hole and look at the d-day map and try to replicate what mibi did there. it's actually a rather simple process that involves clip-masking and bevel.
3. this is not a very big issue but i'm actually quite distracted by the various size of map elements. for example the dead horse is the size of an airplane and the dead soldiers would never fit in the trenches. perhaps making then smaller.
4. the texture in the foxholes is a bit too sharp and repetitive. i'd use the same texture that you have on the trenches that connect the fox holes.
5. the fox holes and trenches need some depth. a really small bevel and some proper shading will work wonders.
6. blow holes? i don't know, maybe i'm the only perv here but the name makes me think of glory holes.
7. the flags in the legend somehow manage to be both pixelated as well as blurry at the same time not good. smooth and crisp is how they should be
8. the black/white image with the soldiers doesn't quite fit with the colourful map that's around it.
9. text in the legend. some of it has shadowing, some doesn't.
10. i'd like to see the legend created like a military report/file with orders or something like that.

that's it for now. i hope nothing i wrote has been mentioned before i honestly did not read the whole thread.

[Flapcake]

so now that this got the gameplay badge (congrats, btw) it's time for graphics
in no specific order here are some thoughts:
1. the red arrows are too flashy. they should blend more. also how come a shell hole can bombard a fox hole? logic tells me it should be the other way around. perhaps from a gameplay point of view it's better like it is now but logically it's a bit weird.
2. the shell holes are actually 1 image rotated and copy/pasted all over. the problem with that is that the original image had a light source and a shadow. by rotating it you now have a discrepancy. in one hole the light is in the north on another the light is in the south and so on. i think you should forget the image with the blow hole and look at the d-day map and try to replicate what mibi did there. it's actually a rather simple process that involves clip-masking and bevel.
3. this is not a very big issue but i'm actually quite distracted by the various size of map elements. for example the dead horse is the size of an airplane and the dead soldiers would never fit in the trenches. perhaps making then smaller.
4. the texture in the foxholes is a bit too sharp and repetitive. i'd use the same texture that you have on the trenches that connect the fox holes.
5. the fox holes and trenches need some depth. a really small bevel and some proper shading will work wonders.
6. blow holes? i don't know, maybe i'm the only perv here but the name makes me think of glory holes.
7. the flags in the legend somehow manage to be both pixelated as well as blurry at the same time not good. smooth and crisp is how they should be
8. the black/white image with the soldiers doesn't quite fit with the colourful map that's around it.
9. text in the legend. some of it has shadowing, some doesn't.
10. i'd like to see the legend created like a military report/file with orders or something like that.
that's it for now. i hope nothing i wrote has been mentioned before i honestly did not read the whole thread.

Thx Dim
Yes you got some good points, Koontz also mentioned some of them.
Iam rigth now working on the map and will post an update one of the following days, stay tuned , with some of your suggentions, who knows

[Industrial Helix]

Ignoring various historical inaccuracies...

This map is shaping up quite nice.

Do the field hospitals do nothing? I see the red cross and I conclude it should be an autodeploy where I can heal my injured troops and use them later in the battle.

The map needs to differentiate what you consider a fox hole versus a shell hole. Technically they're about the same thing in all but name. Though the foxhole didn't really come into common usage until WWII. but now... ahh... I see you are referring to the front line trenches as fox holes.

Though, how does one determine where the nearest fox hole is to a shell hole? You need to graphically depict which foxholes are reachable from which shell holes.

And the arrows, I presume indicate a one way attack, you need to put this in the legend somewhere.

Otherwise, keep up the good work!

[Flapcake]

Ignoring various historical inaccuracies...

This map is shaping up quite nice.

Do the field hospitals do nothing? I see the red cross and I conclude it should be an autodeploy where I can heal my injured troops and use them later in the battle.

The map needs to differentiate what you consider a fox hole versus a shell hole. Technically they're about the same thing in all but name. Though the foxhole didn't really come into common usage until WWII. but now... ahh... I see you are referring to the front line trenches as fox holes.

Though, how does one determine where the nearest fox hole is to a shell hole? You need to graphically depict which foxholes are reachable from which shell holes.

And the arrows, I presume indicate a one way attack, you need to put this in the legend somewhere.

Otherwise, keep up the good work!

field hospital is already in advance +2 bonus so I do not think it should be a autodeploy on top of that, then it should be instead of the +2 direct bonus.

what I could do is remove the ability to bombadere from shell hole to fox hole, then I can remove the red arrows, and shell holes can then just serve as a safe place when troops are reset to neutral, then I dont need to find space in the legen for dertermine where the closest fox hole is..

I atm working on the same texture that I have on the trenches that connect the fox holes, and have turned all shell holes in same direction regarding to shadow fall on, the flags are sharpen up, scale of dead horse contra dead soldiers match now.

Iam very happy about all the feedback given atm, and I welcome more of it but, pls dont expect all those suggestions taking place in the next update.

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