Knights

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Knights

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:25 am

Image :D Image :D Image :D
Image :D Image :D

Map Name:KNIGHTS
Mapmaker(s):Koontz1973
Number of Territories:64
Special Features:Strategy over luck.
What Makes This Map Worthy of Being Made:Completely original and completely balanced for 1v1 games.

Map Image:
Image
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xml
http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/1/27/3255536/KNIGHTS.xml
show: christmas skin maps

show: Halloween skins



show: images with 88s



Gameplay notes.
Only 2 positions will be programmed into the xml. In 2 player games both will receive 16 territs at the opposite ends of the board. All 32 territs in the middle will be programmed with 1 neutral, no degrading or killer. As stated in the game board, no continents, no normal reinforcements, only 5 troops per round (no matter how many territs you hold) and spoils (if in play).
All other games will have random drops at both ends. The middle will always be neutral. If it becomes available in later updates the xml, this will be done.
3 player games - 10 territs - drop of 5 (2 extra neutrals)
4 player games - 8 territs - drop of 5 (0 extra neutrals)
5 player games - 6 territs - drop of 5 (2 extra neutrals)
6 player games - 5 territs - drop of 5 (2 extra neutrals)
7 player games - 4 territs - drop of 5 (4 extra neutrals)
8 player games - 4 territs - drop of 5 (no extra neutrals)
The extra neutrals will be programmed as 3.

Why this.
A chess map has been tried many times before but without a major update to the xml, this will never come about as all pieces move in different ways. So instead of trying for a normal map set on a chess board, the best solution I feel is to have one type of piece and make all pieces the same. This makes for the most balanced drop in 1v1 games ever. Will be great for all game types. Also thehippo8article in the Dispatch a couple of issues ago got me thinking.
Here is the original articles that got me thinking.
thehippo8 wrote:
show


show

show: early work
Attachments
Knight dancing.xml
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Last edited by koontz1973 on Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:47 am, edited 101 times in total.
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Re: KNIGHTS [2/10] Version 1.

Postby thehippo8 on Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:26 pm

Nice idea koontz. The knight is probably the only piece that would work in this format, and removing kings and other pieces is fine by me. For avid chess players this is like a practice task in visualisation (a cornerstone to good chess play) but practically speaking it will make for an interesting CC game. I like it. On a practical note, the orientation of the board is appropriate as it makes for easier reading of co-ordinates (essential to work out where you are going - although the clickable board will also assist players). This is a bit like a Circus Maximus but far more complex. It should be (relatively) easy to program too. Thanks for coming up with a workable chess idea. It contains the "essence of the game" but doesn't go overboard (excuse the pun).
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Re: KNIGHTS [2/10] Version 1.

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:45 pm

thehippo8 wrote:Nice idea koontz. The knight is probably the only piece that would work in this format, and removing kings and other pieces is fine by me. For avid chess players this is like a practice task in visualisation (a cornerstone to good chess play) but practically speaking it will make for an interesting CC game. I like it. On a practical note, the orientation of the board is appropriate as it makes for easier reading of co-ordinates (essential to work out where you are going - although the clickable board will also assist players). This is a bit like a Circus Maximus but far more complex. It should be (relatively) easy to program too. Thanks for coming up with a workable chess idea. It contains the "essence of the game" but doesn't go overboard (excuse the pun).


This is the thing of it. It is such a simple idea that I am surprised it has not been thought of before. No matter who goes first, there is no advantage in any type of game. With the 2 positions to be programmed in you know exactly where you are and the other player, but like chess, there are so many ways to go forward. In a 1v1 game, there are 40 first moves followed by 40 counter moves. That is a staggering 1600 different first rounds. I can imagine this being used a lot with the new round limits. The only thing now to do gameplay wise is to set the reinforcements to a level that works and the central neutrals. I put 5 in but that might be a little too high or too low. The one neutral is fine IMO as it allows players to come out and attack whilst not losing troops. Graphically speaking, it looks like shit but I can work on that this week.

This will take 1 minute to learn but a life time to master.
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Re: KNIGHTS [2/10] Version 1.

Postby tokle on Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:11 pm

I love it.
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Re: KNIGHTS [2/10] Version 1.

Postby thehippo8 on Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:30 pm

koontz1973 wrote:It is such a simple idea that I am surprised it has not been thought of before.


This is like the novice looking at an art piece and saying ... that's so simple I could have done that. "But you didn't Blanche, you didn't."

It is not simple, it is inspired. Please continue with this idea, I reckon its a ripper!
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Re: KNIGHTS [2/10] Version 1.

Postby Sniper08 on Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:31 am

nice map , obviously the graphics are gonna need to be greatly improved since the gameplay is already sorted.
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Re: KNIGHTS [7/10] Version 2.

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:33 pm

Version 2.
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Graphical improvements.
Sorted text in lower right corner.
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Re: KNIGHTS [7/10] Version 2

Postby thehippo8 on Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:24 pm

Yep, getting there ... maybe the crosslines are a little too deep and the background just a little too heavy ... but nice!
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Re: KNIGHTS [7/10] Version 2

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:07 pm

thehippo8 wrote:Yep, getting there ... maybe the crosslines are a little too deep and the background just a little too heavy ... but nice!

As this is going to be a simple map, if it gets all the way, I was going to do lots of backgrounds. One of Christmas, Easter, Halloween, really what ever takes peoples fancy.

As for simple, it is going to be a bitch of a map to get past graphics as everyone will want they version of a background,
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Re: KNIGHTS [7/10] Version 2

Postby thehippo8 on Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:56 pm

koontz1973 wrote:
thehippo8 wrote:Yep, getting there ... maybe the crosslines are a little too deep and the background just a little too heavy ... but nice!

As this is going to be a simple map, if it gets all the way, I was going to do lots of backgrounds. One of Christmas, Easter, Halloween, really what ever takes peoples fancy.

As for simple, it is going to be a bitch of a map to get past graphics as everyone will want they version of a background,


lol ... gotcha ... okay so now I guess you wait for however long for the powers that be to start the stamping!! Are you working on the xml yourself?
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Re: KNIGHTS [7/10] Version 2

Postby IcePack on Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:10 pm

You have a 2 player game shown, and using red / blue. This should be red / green to match CC colours ;)
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Re: KNIGHTS [7/10] Version 2

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:37 pm

IcePack wrote:You have a 2 player game shown, and using red / blue. This should be red / green to match CC colours ;)

OK, I just like red/bLue but red/green it shall be. :P
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Re: KNIGHTS [7/10] Version 2

Postby thehippo8 on Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:55 pm

Nothing to stop you bunging in red/blue in the name!
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Re: KNIGHTS [7/10] Version 2

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:25 am

Version 3.
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New board.
Resized for better scaling.

Some ideas on the background would be nice.
Fonts.
Colour of the squares.
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Re: KNIGHTS [8/10] Version 3

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:08 am

show: some different backgrounds
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Re: KNIGHTS [8/10] Version 3

Postby isaiah40 on Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:56 am

In all honesty, I prefer the back on the one you have now. You see it but you don't see it, if ya know what I mean.
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Re: KNIGHTS [8/10] Version 3

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:12 am

isaiah40 wrote:In all honesty, I prefer the back on the one you have now. You see it but you don't see it, if ya know what I mean.

I know what you mean, it might be an idea to use the sites grey for the backing so it all just floats on the screen. Anyone know what the colour code is in GIMP?
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Re: KNIGHTS [8/10] Version 3

Postby thehippo8 on Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:40 pm

That's sexy ... problem with the text though ... "knights" is hard to read ... maybe change that to "Knights" because otherwise the font is cool.

Incidentlally ... have you tried Inkscape?
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Re: KNIGHTS [8/10] Version 3

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:02 pm

Never, but saw this cool video on feathering rivers so have been meaning to have a look at it.
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Re: KNIGHTS [8/10] Version 3

Postby jefjef on Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:11 pm

Coool idea - cool map. You should be able to get this through the foundry quickly. =D>

Here's an idea. Instead of the silhouette of chess players behind the title how about a silhouette of couple of Knight chess pieces facing each other book ending the title. 8-)
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Re: KNIGHTS [8/10] Version 3

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:19 pm

jefjef wrote:Coool idea - cool map. You should be able to get this through the foundry quickly. =D>

Here's an idea. Instead of the silhouette of chess players behind the title how about a silhouette of couple of Knight chess pieces facing each other book ending the title. 8-)


Nice, me like it a lot. Will post it today.
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Re: KNIGHTS [8/10] Version 3

Postby DiM on Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:21 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Special Features:Strategy over luck.


i really don't think the above quote is true. in fact i fear this map is exactly the opposite.

perfect symmetry, identical starting positions (for 1v1) and no bonuses to get. i'm afraid this will be only about luck. whoever gets the better dice, whoever gets the best card sets (flat rate).

the strategical beauty of chess is that each unit acts different and you have to find the right mixture to win. right now you've eliminated the strategy from chess and created a luck based game.
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Re: KNIGHTS [8/10] Version 3

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:16 am

Over this we can disagree. But you are right, luck, with the dice, drop and cards are always going to be factors in any game on this site.

But by giving a 2 player game exactly the same positions and numbers of troops deployed you get a game that eliminates one of the three.
Cards, as stated on the board, is up to the players if they want them. There is nothing I can do about it.
Dice, the same, there is nothing I can do about it, but by putting only 1 neutrals in the middle, that should negate all but very bad dice.
As with the strategy part, that will have to be proven or disproved later. But I worked it out that if only one piece is moved by each player in the first round you get a staggering number of 1600 different first rounds. This number goes higher if more than one is moved. But if you have a suggestion DiM on making it more strategy based, then please post it. Can easily go higher with the numbers like City Mogul. But right now, in a 2 player game, every piece is covered by another piece. If you attack, I can attack back. So moving pieces in the first few rounds is going to be crucial. As the game goes on and territs fall to one side, deployment is going to come into it as long runs are going to be all but impossible. But this is all but speculation on our parts. It gets even more complicated with more players as the drop becomes random. Imagine an 8 player assassin game, in fog. All of your target could have territs next to you and you cannot see them. :P

But one of the biggest factors about the game is that no region connects to the neighbour. So it is really going to be down to how well you can visualize the board as a whole.

The strategy of chess as you say is that every piece moves differently, but the site does not have that function. I would doubt that it ever will.

As I said DiM, suggestions welcome, but I will resist some of them if it changes to much the stated gameplay.
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Sergeant 1st Class koontz1973
 
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Re: KNIGHTS [8/10] Version 3

Postby thehippo8 on Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:35 am

DiM wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:Special Features:Strategy over luck.


i really don't think the above quote is true. in fact i fear this map is exactly the opposite.

perfect symmetry, identical starting positions (for 1v1) and no bonuses to get. i'm afraid this will be only about luck. whoever gets the better dice, whoever gets the best card sets (flat rate).

the strategical beauty of chess is that each unit acts different and you have to find the right mixture to win. right now you've eliminated the strategy from chess and created a luck based game.


Frankly Dim, I'm surprised by your response - it's not like you to be this negative. You are also wrong, there is an additional element of skill in this game beyond that of many other "classic" style maps. I think once this gets quenched you'll be surprised by the posibilities. In fact, I'm rather jealous that Koontz thought of the idea before me and all kudos to him!
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Corporal 1st Class thehippo8
 
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Re: KNIGHTS [8/10] Version 3

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:41 am

Version 4.
Tried to copy the sites grey, but not close enough. Any one know the GIMP code for it?
Added the bookends and quote from thread.
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Any chance of some foundry love now? :P

Found this cartoon and thought it was funny after what DiM posted. no offence meant DiM , but I did find it funny. ;) But it does go to show how some stratagy will come into this.
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Sergeant 1st Class koontz1973
 
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