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Re: New Zealand [22.2.12] V11-P8 - CB Check 2 adjusted

Postby ender516 on Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:11 pm

The way the bonuses are described right now seems perfectly clear. I see no need for a minimap.
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Re: New Zealand [22.2.12] V11-P8 - CB Check 2 adjusted

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:40 pm

ender516 wrote:The way the bonuses are described right now seems perfectly clear. I see no need for a minimap.

I think I agree.


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Re: New Zealand [22.2.12] V11-P8 - CB Check 2 adjusted

Postby cairnswk on Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:36 pm

ender516 wrote:The way the bonuses are described right now seems perfectly clear. I see no need for a minimap.

AndyDufresne wrote:
ender516 wrote:The way the bonuses are described right now seems perfectly clear. I see no need for a minimap.

I think I agree.
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Gents, thanks for coming in so quickly to comment...
The reason i asked this question is that i am feeling the current text style while adequate because of colouration etc, couldn't be improved upon with a visual representation as well as text. Now i say as well as text because one of the reasons i do these maps apart from enjoyment for players etc and myself, has a sub-motive of education. That is one of the reasons i started with the CCC map. IN this case, if players can see where the Bay of Plenty is then they are more likely to remember it by playing the map over a couple of times if it is good enough for them to do so.
So below is an example of what the North Island might look like. What do you think?

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Re: New Zealand [22.2.12] V12-P9 - Legend? minimap, text or

Postby isaiah40 on Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:51 pm

I think the mini-map here works out very well!! Just move the abbreviation down between the mini-map and airport instructions and it will be perfect!
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Re: New Zealand [22.2.12] V12-P9 - Legend? minimap, text or

Postby cairnswk on Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:47 pm

Poll details
Length: 14 days
From the above image Version 12 map...much of the clutter has been removed so people can see more clearly what they are voting for.
You have two options to vote for and votes are changeable should you wish.
Please only place one vote in Mountains and one vote for Legends.
The category with the largest vote will go onto the map with consideration given to any welcome constructive comments posted :)


Mountains:
There are 4 styles of mountains to decide upon:
* Blue box - these are filled and outllined mountains drawn in PS and imported to Illustrator as bitmaps
* Rex box - these are filled mountains only with outlines removed in PS, but black vector outlines added in Illustrator
* Old style no box - these are the original mountains
* Combinations - indicate in the poll if you think a combination of the three styles might be appropriate

Legend:
There are 3 styles of legend to decide upon:
* Text only - this is the same text style that is currently on the map for the South Island
* Mini-map - this is the mini-map without the text indicating the region names
* Mini-map and text - combination of mini-map and text - allowing players to recognise the regions by name
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Re: [POLL] New Zealand [22.2.12] V12-P9 - mountains and lege

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:06 am

cairnswk, always looking for ways to improve, I like it. The mountains you had (without box) where fine. They looked OK to me. But the mini map with the text looks like a winner. Not only does it fill the space up better than the large text, it just looks nicer. It may not be needed, like Andy and enders said, but it is a winner IMO.
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Re: [POLL] New Zealand [22.2.12] V12-P9 - mountains and lege

Postby cairnswk on Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:45 am

koontz1973 wrote:cairnswk, always looking for ways to improve, I like it. The mountains you had (without box) where fine. They looked OK to me. But the mini map with the text looks like a winner. Not only does it fill the space up better than the large text, it just looks nicer. It may not be needed, like Andy and enders said, but it is a winner IMO.

koontz193, thanks for that comment, but you know inevitably the mountains will be regarded as not good enough, so that is why i am doing this now. I agree about the mim-map and text. :) It looks much clearer and less cluttered.
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Re: [POLL] New Zealand [22.2.12] V12-P9 - mountains and lege

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:54 am

Well, about the mountains, I still say the ones you have are great, just because one or two may not like the look or style to them, it can be said that a majority do and they can stay. But honestly, the new ones are not even close to the ones you have now. They just do not fit the style of map.
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Re: [POLL] New Zealand [22.2.12] V12-P9 - mountains and lege

Postby natty dread on Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:57 am

koontz1973 wrote:just because one or two may not like the look or style to them, it can be said that a majority do and they can stay.


What does "majority" have to do with anything?

For the record, it's good that you're looking to improve the mountains. However, the ones in the blue rectangles look really blurry, while the ones in the red circle look kind of weird, the lines seem to go a bit oddly there...

I think the best choice would be to do something similar to your current mountains, with the crisp look and style, but add more variation to the mountain images, so that they're not all just repetition of the one same mountain image.
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Re: [POLL] New Zealand [22.2.12] V12-P9 - mountains and lege

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:07 am

natty dread wrote:What does "majority" have to do with anything?


Simple - if, in the end, the current mountains fit the style, are graphically good, get discussed in an open manner and most people want them, then it will come to a time when a late comer to the discussion can be rebuffed politely and say we have already gone over this. But this is for another thread.

It would be nice though to have a better choice of mountains though than the two you have given us. :|
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Re: [POLL] New Zealand [22.2.12] V12-P9 - mountains and lege

Postby natty dread on Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:33 am

koontz1973 wrote:Simple - if, in the end, the current mountains fit the style, are graphically good, get discussed in an open manner and most people want them, then it will come to a time when a late comer to the discussion can be rebuffed politely and say we have already gone over this.


Actually, as long as the map is not in beta, any part of it is open for discussion, even if it has been discussed before. If someone later comes along and notices something that no one else has noticed before, then it should be addressed.
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Re: [POLL] New Zealand [22.2.12] V12-P9 - mountains and lege

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:45 am

natty dread wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:Simple - if, in the end, the current mountains fit the style, are graphically good, get discussed in an open manner and most people want them, then it will come to a time when a late comer to the discussion can be rebuffed politely and say we have already gone over this.


Actually, as long as the map is not in beta, any part of it is open for discussion, even if it has been discussed before. If someone later comes along and notices something that no one else has noticed before, then it should be addressed.

But that is a new issue, not an old issue and needs to be addressed.
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Re: [POLL] New Zealand [22.2.12] V12-P9 - mountains and lege

Postby cairnswk on Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:08 am

natty dread wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:just because one or two may not like the look or style to them, it can be said that a majority do and they can stay.


What does "majority" have to do with anything?

For the record, it's good that you're looking to improve the mountains. However, the ones in the blue rectangles look really blurry, while the ones in the red circle look kind of weird, the lines seem to go a bit oddly there...

I think the best choice would be to do something similar to your current mountains, with the crisp look and style, but add more variation to the mountain images, so that they're not all just repetition of the one same mountain image.


Blue rectangle is a direct link file from PS into Illustrator. Actually i am disappointed in PS that it doesn't give me the same functionality that Illustrator does re line width, or if it does, i haven't dsicovered it yet.

That's fairly enough said natty, but did you record you're vote for the old ones?
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Re: [POLL] New Zealand [22.2.12] V12-P9 - mountains and lege

Postby natty dread on Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:17 am

cairnswk wrote:That's fairly enough said natty, but did you record you're vote for the old ones?


Like I said, if you make the old ones such that there's a bit more variation in them.
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Re: [POLL] New Zealand [22.2.12] V12-P9 - mountains and lege

Postby DiM on Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:27 am

natty dread wrote:
cairnswk wrote:That's fairly enough said natty, but did you record you're vote for the old ones?


Like I said, if you make the old ones such that there's a bit more variation in them.


+1. old mountains style but with variation instead of copy paste.
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Re: [POLL] New Zealand [22.2.12] V12-P9 - mountains and lege

Postby ender516 on Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:56 pm

I have voted for the mini-map & text (as you have for North Island). Mini-maps are clearer and perhaps less of a challange for those with English as a second language, but I like to see the names of the zones on the map (it helps me relate to the bonuses via the BOB Continent Overview. I also selected the original mountains, but as DiM and natty said, with some variation. You likely do not need to draw each one by hand. Nine or twelve distinct mountains, shuffled around, would likely be indistinguishable from all unique mountains by most observers.
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Re: [POLL] New Zealand [22.2.12] V12-P9 - mountains and lege

Postby RjBeals on Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:26 pm

If you are creating this map as vector in illustrator, then I would say just draw the mountains using the pen tool in illustrator. You'll get a much more defined border and you can resize to whatever you want. But I like the red box mountains simply because they are so sharp - but I don't like the snow on them.
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Re: [POLL] New Zealand [22.2.12] V12-P9 - mountains and lege

Postby cairnswk on Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:48 pm

RjBeals wrote:If you are creating this map as vector in illustrator, then I would say just draw the mountains using the pen tool in illustrator. You'll get a much more defined border and you can resize to whatever you want. But I like the red box mountains simply because they are so sharp - but I don't like the snow on them.

Agreed, but gotta have snow on the Tasman Alps ;)
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Re: [POLL] New Zealand [22.2.12] V12-P9 - mountains and lege

Postby thehippo8 on Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:26 am

Kia Ora

THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED - Cairnswk PM'd a request to re-order this post as a list - a fair and reasonable request if you ask me!!

It seems strange sitting back and watching this map running through the mill. That's my home! Anyways, here's a list of things I suggest - please feel free to include or ignore any of my suggestions!!

  • Spelling - Whangarei not Whangerei - Karamea not Karamia - Hurunui not Hunurui (nui means big).

  • Significance of Tiki - Tiki are Taonga (sacred objects) personal to people - in modern life you give someone a Tiki carving and they wear it as their connection to the land and to you the giver. Setting up a Tiki hunt is an interesting concept in its own right and many people collect Tiki. To be clear ... there's is nothing wrong or culturally inappropriate with that!! Maybe some reference to this being a Tiki hunt may be worth mentioning?

  • Your intention was that the Tiki's can be found in areas of Maori significance - but that begs the question why the places you chose? Here is a map showing areas of cultural significance to Maori ...
    Click image to enlarge.
    image
    I include this to assist you with placement on your map. In truth New Zealand is a country of deep cultural history and pride in heritage, wherever that may be from. We call ourselves Kiwi and people (like me) who have a little bit of Maori blood in them have a true fondness of Maori culture but even those without have a great connection with that tradition. New Zealand is an evolving place end even the likes of us with Maori blood recognise and regard those with other cultural heritage (especially British of whom our forebears united - and in the likes of me physically in that I also have British blood!).

  • I see your map as being a really cool way of showing a joined cultural heritage and hence agree with the English place names rather than suggesting Maori ones!! [spoiler=a little history for those who may be interested]Keep in mind that New Zealand changed irrevocably in 1840 when the British enteres a treaty with the Maori people (again that itself is a matter for debate with some - the treaty was moved around the place so that the various chiefs could sign and although many signed at Waitangi (a town in Northland), many others refused to go there (multiple reasons) and so signed elsewhere and then not all Chiefs signed - some refusing altogether which have resulted in settlement cases between unresolved issues and the government at a Court known as the Waitangi Tribunal). I digress, the point is that the boundaries in the map have become the accepted ones. It is helpful to be aware that tradition has it that seven canoes (wakas) came from the mythical land of Hawaiiki (not Hawaii) and settled in different parts of the country. The main tribes divided into sub-tribes (iwi) and families (hapu), hence the land divisions. If you were wanting to find places of significance then that's a big undertaking of some historical significance and not just a little bit of controversy).[spoiler]

  • Having regard to the map of Maori regions and places, here's a list of recommendations from me that may be helpful:

    • Focus on Nga Puhi (Kaitaia rather than Whangarei)
    • Tainui (close enough to Pukekohe - shift from Rodney - which really isn't a Maori renown area at all)
    • Tuhoi (Rotorua rather than Whakatane)
    • Ngati Porou (where you have Te Araroa but I'd choose Ruatoria as that has more significance)
    • Ngati Kahungun (Hastings)
    • Ngati Maru (Mt Taranaki - rather than Hawera
    • Ngati Ruakawa (Taihape)
    • Ngati Toa (where you have Wellington - which is actually Pararaparaumu as Wellington is at the botton of the North Island where the circular harbour is - not that I'm complaining but Wellington is the Capital city!)
    • Ngati Tama (Nelson)
    • Rangitane (where you have Picton - shift from MV)
    • Ngati Apa (where you have Karamia - shift from Westport, which frankly wouldn't be classified as Maori in any way shape or form!)
    • The rest of the South Island is pretty much considered Ngai Tahu - but you could do Ngai Tahu (where you have Hunurui - actually spelled Hurunui - but I'd shift that to Kairkoura if I were you)
    • Te Wai Pounamu (pretty much covers it all but why not have that where you have Waimate
    • Waitahe (where you have Clutha - actually speklled Balclutha - but I'd move that to Kaitangata if I were you)
    • finally Ngati Mamoe (where you have Fjordland but I'd shift that to Manapouri if I were you).
    • For accurate locations check North Island and South Island.

This is all my personal opinion and may not be shared by everyone - and for anyone who disagrees with me, please don't be offended if I missed out your hapu, or you have any other issue, as I was really looking at map versus significant areas on a meta level.

There's lots else I could say about New Zealand if you are interested, but I was thinking this may be enough for your map for now.
Last edited by thehippo8 on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [POLL] New Zealand [22.2.12] V12-P9 - mountains and lege

Postby thehippo8 on Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:54 am

See above edited post!!
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Re: [POLL] New Zealand [22.2.12] V12-P9 - mountains and lege

Postby cairnswk on Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:46 pm

thehippo8 wrote:Kia Ora...

[list][*]Spelling - Whangarei not Whangerei - Karamea not Karamia - Hurunui not Hunurui (nui means big).[/*]

Done next version
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Re: [POLL] New Zealand [22.2.12] V12-P9 - mountains and lege

Postby iancanton on Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:36 pm

what an epic post by thehippo8! renaming some regions with tiki and moving other tiki will not affect the gameplay stamp, as long as each bonus zone has one tiki.

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ian. :)
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Re: [POLL] New Zealand [22.2.12] V12-P9 - mountains and lege

Postby cairnswk on Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:39 pm

iancanton wrote:what an epic post by thehippo8! renaming some regions with tiki and moving other tiki will not affect the gameplay stamp, as long as each bonus zone has one tiki.
...
ian. :)


ian, thank-you for the stamp. I wasn't expecting this so quickly.
Anyways, re your above, if the tiki is moved to a territory with a plane on it that can be assautled from either black or white, won't this affect the gameplay of the tiki going towards a region bonus. Away from a place territory there is less chance of it being assaulted, thus allowing the potentional holder of the territory to use it as a bonus army towards capturing the region.
If the tikl is on a plane territory, then it would destroy that tiki bonus element, and it would be even harder to gain the region.
Does this make sense?
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Re: [POLL] New Zealand [22.2.12] V12-P9 - mountains and lege

Postby iancanton on Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:34 am

cairnswk wrote:If the tikl is on a plane territory, then it would destroy that tiki bonus element, and it would be even harder to gain the region.
Does this make sense?

an adjustment to neutral or bonus values might be needed if this happens.

ian. :)
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Re: [POLL] New Zealand [22.2.12] V12-P9 - mountains and lege

Postby cairnswk on Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:02 am

iancanton wrote:
cairnswk wrote:If the tikl is on a plane territory, then it would destroy that tiki bonus element, and it would be even harder to gain the region.
Does this make sense?

an adjustment to neutral or bonus values might be needed if this happens.

ian. :)

Thanks ian, that's what i thought :idea:
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