United States of Apocalypse [Quenched]

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Postby Hoff on Sun May 21, 2006 5:32 pm

Yes its a very interesting idea
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Postby Jota on Sun May 21, 2006 9:09 pm

qeee1 wrote:Yeah, I am still slightly worried about the whole only being able to deploy 1 man thing... not a lot you can do with 1 man.


Mmm. Optimally, it'd be nice if every player could get an extra +2 deployment for free every turn when playing this map, regardless of their holdings. But that's beyond what I can do in XML. I could try a -1 penalty for each one and a +1 bonus per pair. That would give -1/-1/0/+2/+5/+9. It would mean you'd always get at least two armies to deploy, but +5 seems like a low bonus for holding five totally disconnected countries.

Marvaddin wrote:Another thing: if a player have 3 contamined countries, he in fact will have 3 doubles of countries, so it will give him a great bonus.


I'm not sure if you might be doing the math differently from me. If you have three contaminated countries, you will have three doubles, but you'll still have the three contaminated countries, so they'll cancel out to 0. Also, if I count doubles, I won't be counting triples (and vice versa).

So is the font change in Corn Country and Aquaria any significant improvement? Also, is it obvious that Brigham/WYMG-0110, Colorado/Nebraska, and Dustbowl/Missouri are borders, or do I need to make those clearer?
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Postby Willgfass on Mon May 22, 2006 3:12 pm

if this is the U.S. in the future, where's the rest of the world?
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Postby vtmarik on Mon May 22, 2006 3:15 pm

Willgfass wrote:if this is the U.S. in the future, where's the rest of the world?


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Postby onbekende on Mon May 22, 2006 3:17 pm

The rest is under rule of Belgium

Looks good, might change still the bonusses, but that will be hard work
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Postby Bozo on Mon May 22, 2006 5:36 pm

How are you going to decide who starts with what bonus, Because if you start with 1 nuke 'site' then you are prety much screwed from the begining and if someone starts with 2 then they have a huge advantage.
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Postby Jota on Mon May 22, 2006 9:52 pm

The Conquer Club engine always distributes countries randomly at the start of the game. And with the bonuses/penalties we're looking at right now, starting with two irradiated countries should give the exact same effective penalty as starting with one. Statistically, I think most players are likely to start with either one or two. Some folks will occasionally have zero or three, but if I go with the -1/+1 numbers (instead of the -2/+2), that won't be any more of an advantage than starting with Downtown in Montreal.
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Postby Jota on Wed May 24, 2006 4:44 am

[url=http://grunk.org/risk/usa8-large.jpg]Image
(Link to large version.)[/url]

There are now five options for fonts. Compare Corn Country, Ye Olde Newland, Aquaria, UST, and Voodoo Bayou. Please let me know which one you think works the best.

At this stage, I'm also really interested to hear what people have to say about the layout of the countries/borders/continents/bonuses. There are 45 countries in six continents:

    Continent - countries - borders - neighbors
  • Silicon Overmind - 7 - 4 - 3
  • Corn Country - 12 - 6 - 4
  • Ye Olde Newland - 6 - 2 - 2
  • Aquaria - 5 - 2 - 2
  • United States of Texas - 8 - 4 - 4
  • Voodoo Bayou - 7 - 3 - 2

I'd like to have the borders more or less fixed before I start working on the XML.
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Postby Marvaddin on Wed May 24, 2006 7:59 am

I like the Texas font the most...
Im still confused... What continent is Overmind, and what is Voodoo? The legend isnt good to them... Because by the way Voodoo is near Cuba, but its name is black as Overmind.

Bonuses? Should we add one more army because of infected places? If not, the bonuses would be to me:

Overmind: 4
Aquaria: 2 (although it would be 1, only its very small, so maybe 3)
Texas: 5
Corn Country: 8
Voodoo: 4
Newland: 2
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Postby AndyDufresne on Wed May 24, 2006 5:42 pm

Well lets see...I've only got a little time so I'll first comment on visual appeal...


---First off I like the shape of the Corn Font, but it is rather hard to read. Second choice would be the Texas font. The bold bayou seems too striking.

---I like so far what you are doing with the background textures. For the most part they are interesting, though I feel Corn Country and Ye Old Newland's colors are a little too bright. Perhaps toning it down a little would help the eyes.

---I like the legend idea, obviously the names and sizes, and colors would have to be reworked, but I think the road signs are a nice visual addition.

---Also, is there perhaps another name for mississippi? It doesn't quite fit in the map, try playing with that. Maybe 'Sippi or perhaps another nickname or something it is famous for. And while I'm in the same general area, are you going to use the 'Army Shadows'? If so, it seems like the names currently are cramping where the shadows would be.

---Lastly, what do you have in mind for the ocean? Perhaps turbulent seas of some sort? Something to keep in sync with the current theme.


It's shaping up, hopefully I'll have time to comment more later!


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Postby Banana Stomper on Wed May 24, 2006 6:03 pm

Perhaps make the ocean look like some sort of green toxic waste looking thing. I'm not sure if that will look to harsh on the eyes, but i think thats something that would definitely fit the theme, and if it looks good, it would make the map rock!

I like the barbed wire a lot. if it could stand out just a tad more i think it would help make it more noticable. As it stands i don't think its unforseeable that a person who is not the most observant could miss it.

Perhaps texas could use some sort of texture. It doesn't seem to fit as is.

is it just me, is there a texture where louisianna should be?

Perhaps put a nuclear thing in nevada. Doesn't really matter, but it sorta makes sense, thats where yucca mountain is, where they plan to one day store all of the nuclear waste.

If there is somethin creative to do with canada, mexico, and cuba, that would be nice. As it stands, i feel like they are bland and kind of drag the map down.

Has it been figured out how to do the negatives yet?

Overall i like it. Thats all i have to say for now.
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Postby Mr. K on Wed May 24, 2006 6:12 pm

is it just me, is there a texture where louisianna should be?

I think the joke is that in this hypothetical future, the entire state of Louisiana has sunk.


Haha, and is it just me or Silicon Overmind's background a bunch of screenshots from the Super Nintendo Legend of Zelda game? haha, if so, thats hilarious for some reason.
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Postby PainBrain on Wed May 24, 2006 6:37 pm

For the name of mississississippippi to shorten and make it a joke name you could make it Mr. Ssippi or misterssippi.
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Postby Banana Stomper on Wed May 24, 2006 7:36 pm

Mr. K wrote:
is it just me, is there a texture where louisianna should be?

I think the joke is that in this hypothetical future, the entire state of Louisiana has sunk.


Haha, and is it just me or Silicon Overmind's background a bunch of screenshots from the Super Nintendo Legend of Zelda game? haha, if so, thats hilarious for some reason.


haha, now that you mention it, it does. I think the idea was circuit board, but it definitely looks zelday
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Postby Hoff on Wed May 24, 2006 9:26 pm

I got an ocean you can use!!!! haha
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Postby Banana Stomper on Wed May 24, 2006 10:17 pm

haha, you would hoff...you would.
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Postby Mr. K on Wed May 24, 2006 11:46 pm

Hahahaha, I see the circuit board now. But man does that look like Zelda.
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Postby AndyDufresne on Thu May 25, 2006 12:05 am

Knowing Jota's map making process, I assumed a texture for Texas was coming later. One thing I commend about his methods, is that he leaves many options opens. He also saves himself a lot of time implimenting only things minorly until they are decided on fully. That said...


---Looking at it quickly, I think the country dispersion is fine. And with just a few seconds my take on bonuses...

    ~~~Aquaria = 2 seems more reasonable
    ~~~Silicon Overmind = 5 at least, due to exspansion and lack of limiting borders.
    ~~~Corn Country = definitely looking toward 7-8, large amount of borders and countries and lack of limiting borders.
    ~~~UST = Similar Silicon Overmind, but can limit its borders so no more than 5 I think.
    ~~~Voodo Bayou = most likely a standard 4
    ~~~Ye Old Newland = similar to Aquaria (2), keep them in balance with each other.


---One thing I notice right away is the lack of being able to limit your borders to less than what gives you the continent bonus, with the minor exception of Texas. Now I don't know if it would be even feasible to look into adding this feature, perhaps it wouldn't mesh well with the 'grim' outlook. Perhaps it is something you had in mind, I am not sure. But I thought I would point it out nonetheless.

---Edit: Also, I'm not sure the bull's skull in the 4 corner's region gets the job done as a barrier limiting the attacking of diagonal countries. Perhaps if you looked into making a fissure or extending the Grand Canyon, it could get the job done, and still keep with the 'grim' feel.

---Edit 2: Bonuses straight, not taking into account the nuclear areas.

(Ah, feels good to be getting back to posting more...though finals are still around the corner!)

--Andy
Last edited by AndyDufresne on Thu May 25, 2006 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby rocksolid on Thu May 25, 2006 12:14 am

I'm not sure the Missississippippi was recognized as a joke. I think the fact that it can't fit on the map properly is part of what makes it funny, even though it doesn't quite fit in with the futuristic theme.
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Postby reverend_kyle on Thu May 25, 2006 1:29 am

rocksolid wrote:I'm not sure the Missississippippi was recognized as a joke. I think the fact that it can't fit on the map properly is part of what makes it funny, even though it doesn't quite fit in with the futuristic theme.
i really like it.
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Postby Jota on Thu May 25, 2006 3:33 am

Banana Stomper wrote:Perhaps put a nuclear thing in nevada.


I currently have Aquaria's nuke in LA, since it's a population center, but I don't mind moving it if others agree with you. My only concern is that it'll make the continent a bit easier to take, since you'll be able to save Nevada for last (which means it should probably be worth less than Ye Olde Newland).

AndyDufresne wrote:---One thing I notice right away is the lack of being able to limit your borders to less than what gives you the continent bonus, with the minor exception of Texas.


As in, countries you can hold outside of your continent that reduce the number of effective borders you need to defend? Or defensible stopping places en route to taking a continent?

Either way, it's true that I didn't really take those into consideration as much as I should have. That would probably explain why both you and Marv suggested generally higher bonuses than I had.

Oh, are your bonus suggestions with or without the radiation penalties taken into account?

---Lastly, what do you have in mind for the ocean?


I hadn't thought about it too much yet: I'm generally a fan of subdued oceans, myself, so I was probably going to just try different random stuff until I had one no one complained about :) Although Banana's toxic sludge suggestion is interesting.
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Postby Jota on Thu May 25, 2006 11:21 am

New map ahoy! Or at least a new version of an old new map.

Image

Marvaddin's and AndyDufresne's suggestions for continent bonuses seemed pretty sound, so I'm mostly going along with them (+1 to compensate for the radiation penalty). I'm not entirely convinced on the Overmind and Ye Olde Newland, but I'm still open to arguments. If I do move Aquaria's nuke to GP.com, I'll probably raise YON's bonus back up to where I had it, since that would make Aquaria rather easier to capture than YON (because of the NYC nuke blocking half the continent). Any thoughts?

Unfortunately, I'm not seeing a lot I can easily do in terms of defense points short of adding artificial barriers. A consequence of maps based off of one big landmass, I guess.

I hope the fonts are mostly decent now, although I should probably do something to make the continent names blend better with the legend background. Speaking of which, note the two bullet hole styles: which one do you think looks better?

Oceans. Bah. Personally, I think this ocean looks fine, but something tells me no one else will (since I thought the last two looked fine as well). The next map I do will have disconnected continents and no oceans...
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Postby Banana Stomper on Thu May 25, 2006 4:27 pm

I like the toxicity look you gave it a lot. It really gets the job done. One thing i think that might make it look a little better, if you put that green blend on the east coast as it is on the west. haha, it almost looks extra nice instead of toxic now that i think about it, it looks like the water around the bahamas or something at places. Maybe if the green was closer to the land and it turned blue? That may not work with all the colors, but i think it would add to the feel of it being a shitty US. Perhaps a little greener green may add to the toxic look

I like the graphics on texas a lot. i liked the skull better than the...hat? separating where the 4 corners meet

The suggestion of putting the rad sign in nevada was not as well thought out as your reasoning for putting it in SoCal. now that you mention why it is where it is, keep it there, i like your thoughts better than mine.

One thing i don't like is the texture on louisianna. I think it would be best for you to keep it just the same as the rest of the water in the map. It doesn't fit as is.

Have you thought about putting in any rivers, like the mississippi to break up the map at all? I'm not sure how you want it, i'm more of a fan of the less connected, complicated route kind of map.

The texture on canada and mexico is..ok. What if there was that barbed wire or something on the border of each of those countries with the US. I think that might be a tad humorous. kind of saying, "yo, keep your radioactive crap hole of a country out of here"
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Postby PainBrain on Thu May 25, 2006 4:35 pm

Is that a mini version of the space map rocket crashed in the four corners area?
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Postby Jota on Thu May 25, 2006 4:46 pm

Woo, someone recognizes it! It is surprisingly difficult to find something that's easily recognizable at that size. I think I may end up going back to the steer skull in the end just because anything else is too hard to see.

The Mississippi would be a good idea, except that (like the Grand Canyon) it's in the wrong darn place. It runs north-south, right through the middle of the continents (rather than between them).
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