United States of Apocalypse [Quenched]

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Postby Banana Stomper on Wed May 24, 2006 10:17 pm

haha, you would hoff...you would.
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Postby Mr. K on Wed May 24, 2006 11:46 pm

Hahahaha, I see the circuit board now. But man does that look like Zelda.
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Postby AndyDufresne on Thu May 25, 2006 12:05 am

Knowing Jota's map making process, I assumed a texture for Texas was coming later. One thing I commend about his methods, is that he leaves many options opens. He also saves himself a lot of time implimenting only things minorly until they are decided on fully. That said...


---Looking at it quickly, I think the country dispersion is fine. And with just a few seconds my take on bonuses...

    ~~~Aquaria = 2 seems more reasonable
    ~~~Silicon Overmind = 5 at least, due to exspansion and lack of limiting borders.
    ~~~Corn Country = definitely looking toward 7-8, large amount of borders and countries and lack of limiting borders.
    ~~~UST = Similar Silicon Overmind, but can limit its borders so no more than 5 I think.
    ~~~Voodo Bayou = most likely a standard 4
    ~~~Ye Old Newland = similar to Aquaria (2), keep them in balance with each other.


---One thing I notice right away is the lack of being able to limit your borders to less than what gives you the continent bonus, with the minor exception of Texas. Now I don't know if it would be even feasible to look into adding this feature, perhaps it wouldn't mesh well with the 'grim' outlook. Perhaps it is something you had in mind, I am not sure. But I thought I would point it out nonetheless.

---Edit: Also, I'm not sure the bull's skull in the 4 corner's region gets the job done as a barrier limiting the attacking of diagonal countries. Perhaps if you looked into making a fissure or extending the Grand Canyon, it could get the job done, and still keep with the 'grim' feel.

---Edit 2: Bonuses straight, not taking into account the nuclear areas.

(Ah, feels good to be getting back to posting more...though finals are still around the corner!)

--Andy
Last edited by AndyDufresne on Thu May 25, 2006 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby rocksolid on Thu May 25, 2006 12:14 am

I'm not sure the Missississippippi was recognized as a joke. I think the fact that it can't fit on the map properly is part of what makes it funny, even though it doesn't quite fit in with the futuristic theme.
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Postby reverend_kyle on Thu May 25, 2006 1:29 am

rocksolid wrote:I'm not sure the Missississippippi was recognized as a joke. I think the fact that it can't fit on the map properly is part of what makes it funny, even though it doesn't quite fit in with the futuristic theme.
i really like it.
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Postby Jota on Thu May 25, 2006 3:33 am

Banana Stomper wrote:Perhaps put a nuclear thing in nevada.


I currently have Aquaria's nuke in LA, since it's a population center, but I don't mind moving it if others agree with you. My only concern is that it'll make the continent a bit easier to take, since you'll be able to save Nevada for last (which means it should probably be worth less than Ye Olde Newland).

AndyDufresne wrote:---One thing I notice right away is the lack of being able to limit your borders to less than what gives you the continent bonus, with the minor exception of Texas.


As in, countries you can hold outside of your continent that reduce the number of effective borders you need to defend? Or defensible stopping places en route to taking a continent?

Either way, it's true that I didn't really take those into consideration as much as I should have. That would probably explain why both you and Marv suggested generally higher bonuses than I had.

Oh, are your bonus suggestions with or without the radiation penalties taken into account?

---Lastly, what do you have in mind for the ocean?


I hadn't thought about it too much yet: I'm generally a fan of subdued oceans, myself, so I was probably going to just try different random stuff until I had one no one complained about :) Although Banana's toxic sludge suggestion is interesting.
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Postby Jota on Thu May 25, 2006 11:21 am

New map ahoy! Or at least a new version of an old new map.

Image

Marvaddin's and AndyDufresne's suggestions for continent bonuses seemed pretty sound, so I'm mostly going along with them (+1 to compensate for the radiation penalty). I'm not entirely convinced on the Overmind and Ye Olde Newland, but I'm still open to arguments. If I do move Aquaria's nuke to GP.com, I'll probably raise YON's bonus back up to where I had it, since that would make Aquaria rather easier to capture than YON (because of the NYC nuke blocking half the continent). Any thoughts?

Unfortunately, I'm not seeing a lot I can easily do in terms of defense points short of adding artificial barriers. A consequence of maps based off of one big landmass, I guess.

I hope the fonts are mostly decent now, although I should probably do something to make the continent names blend better with the legend background. Speaking of which, note the two bullet hole styles: which one do you think looks better?

Oceans. Bah. Personally, I think this ocean looks fine, but something tells me no one else will (since I thought the last two looked fine as well). The next map I do will have disconnected continents and no oceans...
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Postby Banana Stomper on Thu May 25, 2006 4:27 pm

I like the toxicity look you gave it a lot. It really gets the job done. One thing i think that might make it look a little better, if you put that green blend on the east coast as it is on the west. haha, it almost looks extra nice instead of toxic now that i think about it, it looks like the water around the bahamas or something at places. Maybe if the green was closer to the land and it turned blue? That may not work with all the colors, but i think it would add to the feel of it being a shitty US. Perhaps a little greener green may add to the toxic look

I like the graphics on texas a lot. i liked the skull better than the...hat? separating where the 4 corners meet

The suggestion of putting the rad sign in nevada was not as well thought out as your reasoning for putting it in SoCal. now that you mention why it is where it is, keep it there, i like your thoughts better than mine.

One thing i don't like is the texture on louisianna. I think it would be best for you to keep it just the same as the rest of the water in the map. It doesn't fit as is.

Have you thought about putting in any rivers, like the mississippi to break up the map at all? I'm not sure how you want it, i'm more of a fan of the less connected, complicated route kind of map.

The texture on canada and mexico is..ok. What if there was that barbed wire or something on the border of each of those countries with the US. I think that might be a tad humorous. kind of saying, "yo, keep your radioactive crap hole of a country out of here"
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Postby PainBrain on Thu May 25, 2006 4:35 pm

Is that a mini version of the space map rocket crashed in the four corners area?
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Postby Jota on Thu May 25, 2006 4:46 pm

Woo, someone recognizes it! It is surprisingly difficult to find something that's easily recognizable at that size. I think I may end up going back to the steer skull in the end just because anything else is too hard to see.

The Mississippi would be a good idea, except that (like the Grand Canyon) it's in the wrong darn place. It runs north-south, right through the middle of the continents (rather than between them).
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Postby Banana Stomper on Thu May 25, 2006 4:50 pm

haha, wow, i couldn't see that at first. Recognizing it probably wouldn't be a problem on the bigger map, and now that i know what it is, i like it. I would like it either way, skull or crashed rocket. hehe, it still makes me giggle.
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Postby Limax on Thu May 25, 2006 5:40 pm

PainBrain wrote:Is that a mini version of the space map rocket crashed in the four corners area?


I thought maybe it was a blimp. I liked the skull better as well.
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Postby thegrimsleeper on Thu May 25, 2006 5:47 pm

I like the Rocket ship better. Maybe make the ship just a tiny bit larger and its crater a bit smaller. Also it fits in well with the whole Roswell area.

You do need some more barriers... What about a Bible Belt? You know, with a buckle and everything? It could even have WWJD stamped across it... lol

Oh yeah, and the bullet holes on the left legend look much better.
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Postby rocksolid on Thu May 25, 2006 11:01 pm

Ditto on the bullet holes.

I think the California-falling-into-the-sea-because-of-the-big-earthquake joke is funny, but you might want to retool the execution a bit. As it stands now, those parts of Aquaria not connected by land look like they're just separated in the style of the existing USA map (not a fan), not as though they've fallen into the sea or moved out to sea or whatever. If the borders were more jagged, I think that would communicate what you're going for more (assuming that is what you're going for).
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Postby Mr. K on Fri May 26, 2006 2:13 am

I enjoy the textured water where lousiana should be. I say keep it, it gives the feeling that the state just recently sank.
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Postby Jota on Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:57 pm

Finally, an update!

[url=http://grunk.org/risk/usa10-large.jpg]Image
(Click for larger version.)[/url]

The rivers, they tell me to do things. I try to talk back, but who am I to refuse a river? The rivers insisted that Sanders be a part of the Voodoo Bayou. And in the long run, I think they were right. This means that those of you who are good at looking at bonuses should probably look at them again -- although I think there's a chance they might not actually have to change, since the effects sorta even out a bit.

I think that, unless people hate this ocean, I'm going to keep that as it is. But on the subject of aesthetic flourishes, is the rocket any clearer? How about in the large version? I'm considering reverting to the skull in the small map while keeping the rocket in the large one. Oh, and how about them quick-and-dirty bridges? I have this suspicion that they will be universally loathed. But if you don't loathe them, please, let me know!

(And of course, any other constructive comments are welcome.)
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Postby Mr. K on Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:15 am

I don't loathe them, though they do look like band-aids. They do the trick just fine.
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Postby max is gr8 on Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:43 am

qeee1 wrote:I'm not sure, what if you start with two of them... you're basically crippled the first few turns.

Just to check my stats the bonuses would be:

Number owned / Bonus
1 / -1
2 / -2
3 / -2
4 / 0
5 / 5
6 / 14


I know I'm going back a bit here but
if you owned 2 you'ld get the penalty for 1 aswell as the penalty for 2 so I say this:

1/-1
2/-1
3/0
4/+2 which evens up as 0
5/+5 which evens up to 5 as 4 makes it 0
6/+9 which makes 14 as 5 makes 5 and 4 makes 0
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Postby Marvaddin on Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:37 am

I dislike the bridges, they are almost unvisible in that yellow continent. I also think the white sign was better in the previous location, and you shouldnt move Sanders to the other continent... Corn country has now 7 borders, its too much. And we now need revise the bonuses...
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Postby SMITH197 on Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:33 am

kinda hard to see some of the lines between Indiana and Illinois...but i love the map overall, it should be great to play!
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Postby rocksolid on Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:31 am

Yeah, I didn't even realize there were bridges in the yellow continent until Marv mentioned them. They look a little like Uncle Ben's rice, too.

If I crank the brightness on my monitor, I can tell the difference in colour between Overmind and Canada, but otherwise it's still real dark. Louisiana's looking great. I agree Sanders has to be in the Bayou, even if you have to make up natural boundaries or something to make it happen (not that you need to, but if you're looking for ideas, you could put a gigantic dam in there somewhere [the Fanning dam on Dakota's western border?], or block a border between states by creating an impassable landmass called The Forbidden Zone, with a tiny graphic of the hand of the statue of Liberty...) though if the only concern is reducing the number of borders for Corn, you could eliminate the Indiana-Sanders and Illinois-Sanders bridges and put one in from Ohio - Sanders; that way Corn has fewer borders but Voodoo's borders aren't reduced below 3.
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Postby Jota on Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:02 pm

The idea of CC now having too many borders is interesting to me. I say that because the player who owns CC can still choose to take Sanders in addition to it, reducing his/her borders back down to almost exactly what they were before... can removing the obligation to own an additional country really make a continent more difficult to hold?

I had kinda been imagining that having the strategic choice of either A) taking Sanders and having more countries to defend or B) not taking it and having more borders to defend was a nice element. Hmm.
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Postby Mr. K on Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:53 pm

Jota wrote:The idea of CC now having too many borders is interesting to me. I say that because the player who owns CC can still choose to take Sanders in addition to it, reducing his/her borders back down to almost exactly what they were before... can removing the obligation to own an additional country really make a continent more difficult to hold?

I had kinda been imagining that having the strategic choice of either A) taking Sanders and having more countries to defend or B) not taking it and having more borders to defend was a nice element. Hmm.


I agree with this sentiment. I always like when maps have that kind of thing going.
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Postby reverend_kyle on Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:44 pm

Jota wrote:Finally, an update!

[url=http://grunk.org/risk/usa10-large.jpg]Image
(Click for larger version.)[/url]

The rivers, they tell me to do things. I try to talk back, but who am I to refuse a river? The rivers insisted that Sanders be a part of the Voodoo Bayou. And in the long run, I think they were right. This means that those of you who are good at looking at bonuses should probably look at them again -- although I think there's a chance they might not actually have to change, since the effects sorta even out a bit.

I think that, unless people hate this ocean, I'm going to keep that as it is. But on the subject of aesthetic flourishes, is the rocket any clearer? How about in the large version? I'm considering reverting to the skull in the small map while keeping the rocket in the large one. Oh, and how about them quick-and-dirty bridges? I have this suspicion that they will be universally loathed. But if you don't loathe them, please, let me know!

(And of course, any other constructive comments are welcome.)
I think the rocket is lame, i thought the skull was much better. I like the quick and dirty bridges, though i think sanders needs one less. I agree on the rivers thing sanders is in it's place.
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Postby haha on Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:13 pm

u make the us look like a dump with the toxic sines and i dont like the alaxa
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