[Limited Edition] Christmas Map

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[Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby MrBenn on Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:43 am

Map Name: Christmas Map
Mapmaker(s): MrBenn
Number of Territories: 71
Special Features: - Limited Edition Map - Christmas Map
- Killer Neutrals
- Losing Conditions
- Bombardments
- Winning Conditions
- Autodeploy

Map Image:
Click image to enlarge.
image

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XML: http://www.conquerclub.com/maps/Christmas.xml

Map Rules
- Polaris border all other starts and resets to neutral (20) if held
- Hold five starts to win the game
- You need to hold at least one advent calendar window or you will be eliminated
- Window 25 can bombard all other windows and it resets to neutral (25) if held
- Windows can bombard adjacent numbers (ex. 5 bombards 6 and 4)
- Gifts can bombard the 25th window
- Gifts one way attack the small gift (with the same color) hanged to the tree.
- Main Gifts give you a +1 autodeploy

Bonuses
Hold 3 decorations = +1
Hold 4 decoartions = +2
Hold 5 decorations = +3
etc
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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby thenobodies80 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:13 pm

Although this map is defined as "limited edition map" because it was developed behind the scenes for the associated event, this topic has been created to provide to you a place where you can make suggestions, comments or report problems with the map. Please use the following topic only for these purposes.

Thank you
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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby Victor Sullivan on Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:24 pm

I noticed Christmas doesn't say anything about the main gifts' auto-deploy +1. Shouldn't it? At least the first post of this thread should...

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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby thenobodies80 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:27 pm

I forgot that thing. Added into the first post. Thanks

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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby Victor Sullivan on Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:28 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:I forgot that thing. Added into the first post. Thanks

No worries. Thanks.

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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby drunkmonkey on Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:10 pm

What's the deal with the "2-player adjustment" on this map? Now if I go second, I only get to deploy 2 troops on my first turn? Where's the reasoning behind that? Not to mention it's not written anywhere in the legend, so it's just a little "surprise" you get after joining the game. :?
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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:50 pm

In a 2 players game you should receive 3 troops not 2, but if the first to play takes a your region...yes, you start deploying just 2.
Honestly it's passed some time, I don't recall why MrBenn added that 2 player adjustment (it applies if you hold 4 gifts), probably it's to not give a bigger advantage to the first player.
But you need to wait for his answer for more details. O:)

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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby drunkmonkey on Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:03 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:In a 2 players game you should receive 3 troops not 2, but if the first to play takes a your region...yes, you start deploying just 2.
Honestly it's passed some time, I don't recall why MrBenn added that 2 player adjustment (it applies if you hold 4 gifts), probably it's to not give a bigger advantage to the first player.
But you need to wait for his answer for more details. O:)

Yes, that's what happened - he took one of mine on the first turn. I'd much rather he start with 4 and knock me to 3 than start with 3 and knock me to 2. It would make sense if everyone had a minimum of 3 deploy, but as it works now, I don't see how it takes away the advantage. Regardless, it should be noted on the map.
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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby MrBenn on Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:39 pm

drunkmonkey wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:In a 2 players game you should receive 3 troops not 2, but if the first to play takes a your region...yes, you start deploying just 2.
Honestly it's passed some time, I don't recall why MrBenn added that 2 player adjustment (it applies if you hold 4 gifts), probably it's to not give a bigger advantage to the first player.
But you need to wait for his answer for more details. O:)

Yes, that's what happened - he took one of mine on the first turn. I'd much rather he start with 4 and knock me to 3 than start with 3 and knock me to 2. It would make sense if everyone had a minimum of 3 deploy, but as it works now, I don't see how it takes away the advantage. Regardless, it should be noted on the map.

It's too long ago to remember fully. You have to remember that you get +1 autodeployed onto the gifts... I'd be happy to fix it so that you only get 3 gifts each - when the xml was written it wasn't possible to do that.

As an aside, it had always been my intention to have a mini contest every year to update the advent calendar pictures. I'm not averse to revamping this map either, although for me it's a real celebration of Christmas - those who think it looks like it was drawn by a child should bear in mind that the tree/star are made of child hand/footprints and the presents were drawn in crayon by a 4yr old child.
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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby gemini1512 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:26 am

I am new here, so please forgive my ignorance...

But, what is the point of the advent windows? I am able to bombard windows that are +/- 1, but I can't conquer them. So what is the point in having the windows? I guess I just haven't figured out how it is possible to lose a window yet.
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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby Butters1919 on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:31 am

gemini1512 wrote:I am new here, so please forgive my ignorance...

But, what is the point of the advent windows? I am able to bombard windows that are +/- 1, but I can't conquer them. So what is the point in having the windows? I guess I just haven't figured out how it is possible to lose a window yet.


If you lose all of your advent windows, you are eliminated. The centre window (25) can bombard ALL advent windows. You can access the 25th window via your present under the tree. Be careful though, if you don't eliminate all of your opponents, the centre window will reset to 25 neutrals at the beginning of your next turn and you will lose all of your remaining troops that are on it!
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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby jonofperu on Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:41 am

1. There is no indication that the gifts under the tree have +1 autodeploy (already mentioned)
2. If a territory is said to border another does that not imply that it works vice versa? (I guess not) Wouldn't it be better to say that the gifts under the tree one-way attack gifts on the tree rather than "borders a smaller gift hanging up"
3. Does window 25 reset to 25 neutral at the end of your turn, or at the beginning of your next turn? "After being occupied sounds to me like immediately after your turn ends, but I don't know if the XML would even allow that, so maybe its a non-issue.
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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:36 am

About #1 and #2 I will contact MrBenn, but he is not so active on the site.
About #3, at the start of your next turn if you hold it. See instructions page --> http://www.conquerclub.com/public.php?m ... tructions6

Killer Neutrals

Some maps have special neutral territories known as 'killer neutrals', which will reset to neutral at the beginning of the turn of the player who occupies it. Killer neutrals do not reset if they are already neutral.


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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby kmhebert on Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:08 am

I just wanted to say that this is a great map, I wish it was year round. HA but then I fee the same way about Christmas.
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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby kmhebert on Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:59 pm

NO! I guess I will have to wait until next Christmas to play this again. Any chance of it coming into a rotation more than once a year?
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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby chapcrap on Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:21 pm

kmhebert wrote:NO! I guess I will have to wait until next Christmas to play this again. Any chance of it coming into a rotation more than once a year?

Any chance of December 25 coming more than once a year?
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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby MrBenn on Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:06 pm

jonofperu wrote:1. There is no indication that the gifts under the tree have +1 autodeploy (already mentioned)
2. If a territory is said to border another does that not imply that it works vice versa? (I guess not) Wouldn't it be better to say that the gifts under the tree one-way attack gifts on the tree rather than "borders a smaller gift hanging up"
3. Does window 25 reset to 25 neutral at the end of your turn, or at the beginning of your next turn? "After being occupied sounds to me like immediately after your turn ends, but I don't know if the XML would even allow that, so maybe its a non-issue.

It's been a long time, but from memory...

1) you cannot "capture" the gifts under the tree; you only get the ones you receive at the start. From that point of view it's kind of trivial, and there's no point taking up space on the map with information that every player should be able to work out on their first turn in any case.

2) The arrows on the map only point in a single direction, to help emphasise that they are one-way attacks.

3) Nobodies already answered this.

PS. Happy Christmas!

PPS. Yes, I know it's April.
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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby jonofperu on Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:43 pm

Maybe this affects other maps, but the combination of killer/reset neutrals and victory conditions really confused me. I studied the map when I started playing it and could have sworn I found games where the end-game order was 1. Victory Conditions, 2. Killer Neutrals, etc. Now I'm wondering if I was looking at another map and the order works differently on different maps? Probably I just mis-read something.

The issue is that Polaris is a star. Theoretically it should count as one of the 5 stars you can hold for the victory condition. In fact, BOB reads it as one of the stars and shows a person with Polaris +4 other stars as having the victory conditions.
So in a tournament game I'm playing I allowed another player to hold the objective thinking he would win (and give me 2nd place in the game for points). However, Polaris reset first on his turn and it didn't count for victory.

Is this a standard order of calculating end-game? I don't even know if it would affect other maps. I feel like complaining to BOB though, since it helped to reinforce my delusion. :lol:
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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby drunkmonkey on Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:47 pm

jonofperu wrote:The issue is that Polaris is a star. Theoretically it should count as one of the 5 stars you can hold for the victory condition. In fact, BOB reads it as one of the stars and shows a person with Polaris +4 other stars as having the victory conditions.
So in a tournament game I'm playing I allowed another player to hold the objective thinking he would win (and give me 2nd place in the game for points). However, Polaris reset first on his turn and it didn't count for victory.

Is this a standard order of calculating end-game? I don't even know if it would affect other maps. I feel like complaining to BOB though, since it helped to reinforce my delusion. :lol:


From the instructions:
Killer Neutrals

Some maps have special neutral territories known as 'killer neutrals', which will reset to neutral at the beginning of the turn of the player who occupies it. Killer neutrals do not reset if they are already neutral.

Victory Conditions / Map Objectives

Some maps have 'victory' objectives, which you must conquer and hold for one round to win the game. If you are holding an objective, you will win the game at the moment you press the "Begin Turn" button


It seems that "the moment you press the "Begin Turn" button" would precede "the beginning of the turn". Either the instructions or the game engine need to be fixed, because I would call this a broken feature as-is.
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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby MrBenn on Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:19 am

jonofperu wrote:The issue is that Polaris is a star. Theoretically it should count as one of the 5 stars you can hold for the victory condition. In fact, BOB reads it as one of the stars and shows a person with Polaris +4 other stars as having the victory conditions.

I can't remember how it's coded, but I would've expected Polaris to have counted as one of the 5 stars within the victory condition.

Instructions could be amended to wrote:Victory Conditions / Map Objectives

Some maps have 'victory' objectives, which you must conquer and hold for one round to win the game. If you are holding an objective (and none of the objective territories are also 'killer neutrals'), you will win the game at the moment you press the "Begin Turn" button.
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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby Gilligan on Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:39 am

MrBenn wrote:
jonofperu wrote:The issue is that Polaris is a star. Theoretically it should count as one of the 5 stars you can hold for the victory condition. In fact, BOB reads it as one of the stars and shows a person with Polaris +4 other stars as having the victory conditions.

I can't remember how it's coded, but I would've expected Polaris to have counted as one of the 5 stars within the victory condition.

Instructions could be amended to wrote:Victory Conditions / Map Objectives

Some maps have 'victory' objectives, which you must conquer and hold for one round to win the game. If you are holding an objective (and none of the objective territories are also 'killer neutrals'), you will win the game at the moment you press the "Begin Turn" button.


Polaris does not count towards the objective.
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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby Aleena on Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:06 pm

That's because Polaris is the Jewish Star and is not part of the Christmas Victory Conditions
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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby drunkmonkey on Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:31 pm

Gilligan wrote:
MrBenn wrote:
jonofperu wrote:The issue is that Polaris is a star. Theoretically it should count as one of the 5 stars you can hold for the victory condition. In fact, BOB reads it as one of the stars and shows a person with Polaris +4 other stars as having the victory conditions.

I can't remember how it's coded, but I would've expected Polaris to have counted as one of the 5 stars within the victory condition.

Instructions could be amended to wrote:Victory Conditions / Map Objectives

Some maps have 'victory' objectives, which you must conquer and hold for one round to win the game. If you are holding an objective (and none of the objective territories are also 'killer neutrals'), you will win the game at the moment you press the "Begin Turn" button.


Polaris does not count towards the objective.


Well, then that goes back to jonofperu's original post, and it should be indicated as such on the map.
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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby ColinM on Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:47 am

drunkmonkey wrote:
Well, then that goes back to jonofperu's original post, and it should be indicated as such on the map.


I agree. Referring to holding "any" five is clearly misleading.

Instead of changing the wording, you could change the pictures - so polaris could be changed to a fairy, or the other stars could be changed to bells.

Also:

MrBenn wrote:
jonofperu wrote:1. There is no indication that the gifts under the tree have +1 autodeploy (already mentioned)
2. If a territory is said to border another does that not imply that it works vice versa? (I guess not) Wouldn't it be better to say that the gifts under the tree one-way attack gifts on the tree rather than "borders a smaller gift hanging up"
3. Does window 25 reset to 25 neutral at the end of your turn, or at the beginning of your next turn? "After being occupied sounds to me like immediately after your turn ends, but I don't know if the XML would even allow that, so maybe its a non-issue.

It's been a long time, but from memory...

1) you cannot "capture" the gifts under the tree; you only get the ones you receive at the start. From that point of view it's kind of trivial, and there's no point taking up space on the map with information that every player should be able to work out on their first turn in any case.

2) The arrows on the map only point in a single direction, to help emphasise that they are one-way attacks.

3) Nobodies already answered this.

PS. Happy Christmas!

PPS. Yes, I know it's April.


*It wasn't until round 7 of my first game when I reached someone else's gift that I realised I couldn't attack their main gift. It would be simple enough to change "borders" to "one-way attacks", to make it clear.

*While I accept killer neutrals is explained in the main game rules, would it hurt to change that rule to: "Window 25 can bombard all other windows and will reset to 25 neutrals as your next turn begins" - which fits in the same space?


Also - and the thing that brought me to this discussion - is it written in any rules anywhere explaining that in trench games you can conquer and carry on attacking from a neutral? Luckily I've had a look at some other trench games as I thought I'd only be able to win by capturing five stars.
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Re: [Limited Edition] Christmas Map

Postby Gilligan on Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:17 am

ColinM wrote:
drunkmonkey wrote:
Well, then that goes back to jonofperu's original post, and it should be indicated as such on the map.


I agree. Referring to holding "any" five is clearly misleading.

Instead of changing the wording, you could change the pictures - so polaris could be changed to a fairy, or the other stars could be changed to bells.

Also:

MrBenn wrote:
jonofperu wrote:1. There is no indication that the gifts under the tree have +1 autodeploy (already mentioned)
2. If a territory is said to border another does that not imply that it works vice versa? (I guess not) Wouldn't it be better to say that the gifts under the tree one-way attack gifts on the tree rather than "borders a smaller gift hanging up"
3. Does window 25 reset to 25 neutral at the end of your turn, or at the beginning of your next turn? "After being occupied sounds to me like immediately after your turn ends, but I don't know if the XML would even allow that, so maybe its a non-issue.

It's been a long time, but from memory...

1) you cannot "capture" the gifts under the tree; you only get the ones you receive at the start. From that point of view it's kind of trivial, and there's no point taking up space on the map with information that every player should be able to work out on their first turn in any case.

2) The arrows on the map only point in a single direction, to help emphasise that they are one-way attacks.

3) Nobodies already answered this.

PS. Happy Christmas!

PPS. Yes, I know it's April.


*It wasn't until round 7 of my first game when I reached someone else's gift that I realised I couldn't attack their main gift. It would be simple enough to change "borders" to "one-way attacks", to make it clear.

*While I accept killer neutrals is explained in the main game rules, would it hurt to change that rule to: "Window 25 can bombard all other windows and will reset to 25 neutrals as your next turn begins" - which fits in the same space?


Also - and the thing that brought me to this discussion - is it written in any rules anywhere explaining that in trench games you can conquer and carry on attacking from a neutral? Luckily I've had a look at some other trench games as I thought I'd only be able to win by capturing five stars.


1) there are one-way arrows on top of the gifts.
2) it does say it will reset? seems clear enough.
3) it is explained in the general rules that you can attack through killer neutrals in trench games.
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