Circus Maximus [Quenched]

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Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:25 pm

Well lets see...


---I'd have to say the first crowd is looking the best. But keep experimenting, with color, maybe even texture. Explore all viable options.

---Is there something you can do with the charioteer in the middle area? Perhaps making it look like it was not pasted into said area? Have you explored other grahpic options for that region?

---I'm rather torn on the naming system. I like both yours and Jota's idea. But I will say, for the turns, can you warp the text to fit around the curve, and keeo the feeling of that speeding around the track?


--Andy
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Postby rocksolid on Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:23 am

Good eye on the names in the curves, Andy. I was being lazy and trying to cheat out of warping them.

Here's the fan-favourite first crowd with some anti-carpetesque tweaking.

Image

As for the charioteer in the middle - the legend, not the dude in the foreground who will probably disappear - this was my favourite part of the map! A beautiful image of what I assume is an old marble sculpture, beautifully photographed against a black and brown background that I lovingly extended...I know it's a bit surreal against the sweaty sandiness of the map, but I'd really like to keep it. I have explored other graphic options - there's a really famous piece of Greek pottery with a chariot image on it...

Image

...but I far prefer the sculpture. Maybe if I messed with the dark donut around it...I really don't want to fade it.
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Postby HighBorn on Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:25 am

it looks great... i really like the pottery picture.. i think it would look great...
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Postby rocksolid on Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:34 pm

Legend altered...

Image
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Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:20 pm

Well lets see...

---Just to throw these out there for you to look at (if you hadn't already)../


---I like your experimentation with changing the visuals, keep looking into that, could be something quite unique. Also, have you considered maybe adding a charioteer's helmet for more deco (if needed)?

---Still something I don't like about the middle text, maybe too plain for me, but surely nothing too bad.

---And it feels like some of the outer ring text is faded in dust while others are dark as night.

Edit: ---And I know you've spent some time on the title, but have any other names crossed your mind? Perhaps like 'Hippodrome', to give it more of an authentic, ancient feel?

--Andy
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Postby rocksolid on Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:13 pm

Update...

There was incongruity between the names around the ring. Rectified.

Changed the legend again so that the text is not just lying there. Also changed the look of the title. Both are now a polished Italian marble from near Naples...

Image

Those images you suggested, Andy - one was just another photograph of the one I'm using, while the other looks like a souvenir-store plastic knick-knack version of the same thing...

I'm not married to the title "Chariot races", but if it's changed, I would like it to be something along Roman lines. I think the name Hippodrome has Greek origins and not Latin, though I could be wrong. I think the best change would be to "Circus Maximus", the most famous chariot racing ground in Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circus_Maximus), but I want people choosing to start a game on the map to know that it's a different kind of game from a regular map, and maybe the present title is best for that.
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Postby spiesr on Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:17 pm

The legend is now rather hard to read...
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Postby DublinDoogey on Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:48 pm

As for the charioteer in the middle - the legend, not the dude in the foreground who will probably disappear - this was my favourite part of the map!


My favorite middle graphic so far is the one with that particular image. There's something about that specific one that makes it look more authentic than the ones that came after it.
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Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:56 pm

Well lets see...


---I think some experimentation with shadow and letter depth should be looked into to give the text in both areas (name and legend) to give the text readability. Perhaps have you considered engraving the letters? I must say I like the marble idea the best so far, once it's tweaked.'

---Hehe, and I was going to suggest perhaps the greek alphabet for the naming system, but now that I've realized I've been dealing with the wrong ancient culture, that wouldn't be such a valid suggestion. ;)

---I rather like the other possible title you mentioned. When I read it and hear it my mind flashes to all sorts of chariot races to the death--dust flying, wheels spinning off, blood splashed everywhere. With Chariot Races I think more of a day at the race track, or perhaps a game for kids.


--Andy
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Postby reverend_kyle on Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:07 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:Well lets see...


---I rather like the other possible title you mentioned. When I read it and hear it my mind flashes to all sorts of chariot races to the death--dust flying, wheels spinning off, blood splashed everywhere. With Chariot Races I think more of a day at the race track, or perhaps a game for kids.


--Andy


if he is talking about "circus maximus" i agree.


Also i think the center looks better than ever.
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Postby rocksolid on Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:38 pm

Some alterations for commentary...is the legend more readable? Is the title readable?

What about the chariot image? Is this a step backward? It looks a little weird to me, even though I love the original charioteer image.

Image
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Postby qeee1 on Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:44 pm

Yeah, that looks a little wierd to me too.

The best legend was in this image:
Image
Frigidus wrote:but now that it's become relatively popular it's suffered the usual downturn in coolness.
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Postby fluffybunnykins on Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:10 am

I like the first one, too (that quee quoted) ^^^
though I quite like the circvs maximvs idea too
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Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:33 pm

---I have to throw my vote out for more use of the marble, I think that helps make the map. But the lone image of the charioteer is marble looked raggedy, and the one with the black background seemed more like a window. Keep experimenting.

---Also have you thought about experimenting with alterations and variations in the sand color? Not for say 1 ring being a differen't color than the other, but making it feel realistic, tones and shades of dirt you know.


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Postby qeee1 on Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:09 pm

I'd say use the legend I quoted and make the Circus Maximus background black too, that way the legend won't stand out so much...
Frigidus wrote:but now that it's become relatively popular it's suffered the usual downturn in coolness.
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Postby Mr. K on Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:46 pm

I don't think this is too big of a deal, but it might be helpful if you change the wording of the text. People should be able to guess what you mean by "forward" considering the shape of each piece of the track, but maybe if someone is looking at this for the first time and doesn't really understand the concept, maybe the word "counterclockwise" might be helpful somewhere in there.

Other than that, this seems like a really cool idea. I was skeptical at first but its coming along very nicely. Good job!
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Postby gavin_sidhu on Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:48 am

I know your going for the roman style, but if you are going to have a map with no bonsuses write no bonuses instead of "no bonvses"
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Postby rocksolid on Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:45 pm

Hey all,

Consensus seems to be that the readability of the white on black in the legend at the centre works well, and I think it's true that it will look less out of place if the title at the bottom follows suit. So here's two possibilities, both with the title on a field of black marble (this from further north in the Apennines than the white stuff) and one with the legend on black marble and the other with an improved original legend. My main concern with the black marble legend, which I think looks good, is that the black marble might get confused for a lightning storm.

Image

Image

I think one of these two will be the final legend. I experimented with the sand a fair bit and this was ultimately what I was most satisfied with - other ones weren't even really that close. I think K's suggestion on putting counterclockwise in the legend is a good one.

So now, I'm most looking for feedback on the little guys flying around the track.
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Postby barbu1977 on Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:59 pm

Just caught this and did not read the 5 pages so I don't know it this has been talked about. But what about you give 1 bonus army to the inside lane of Caligula and Honorius?
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Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:03 pm

---I like the blue ripple effect the best out of it all, most appealing.

---Top charioteers are my favorites.

---Also, some names still seem faded (either in whole or part) Compare the left and right to the bottom and top...

Edit: ---Also the coin looks little odd with the blue ripple, look into making that beautiful.

---Have you considered using more of the blue ripple effect, say instead of the crowd? Just curious.


--Andy
Last edited by AndyDufresne on Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby reverend_kyle on Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:37 pm

bleu marble is best.
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Postby spiesr on Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:20 pm

The background in the corners hurts my eyes.
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Postby rocksolid on Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:25 am

Fixed the names in the corners so that they're like all the others; tried to fix the coin so it sits better.

Messed a lot with the racers, and left one of them in pieces after a wreck (in some of these races, only one would be left at the end!).

Image

Glad people like the black marble, but I really want to hang on to the crowd, so I don't intend to replace them with marble. If you've seen Ben-Hur, you can't really imagine the race without the roar of the crowd. Vital to the feel I'm looking for.

Sorry for hurting your eyes, spiesr, but this crowd is the one I'm happiest with. Previous pages have some other examples for you to look at. Let me know if any of the others hurt less.

As for the bonus for holding the two inside posts, that is kind of a cool idea as those are by far the most strategic points on the track. But part of the impetus for this map was to give CC a full no-bonus map, so I'd rather keep it pristine.
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Postby gavin_sidhu on Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:33 am

Thats a crowd... Its hard to tell.
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Postby Jota on Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:39 am

I agree with the others about the marble. It looks nice. And it makes the center seem like it's intentionally not a part of the physical plane of the map, rather than unintentionally so, which is a good thing.

I'm not sure that the broken chariot works for me. The idea does, but I couldn't tell what the picture was supposed to be until I read your description of it. Also, is it just me, or does everyone seem to be in the inner lanes, and hardly anyone in the outer ones?

If you wanted to do any more editing on the crowd -- and I'm not saying you necessarily need to -- then you might look into shifting the colors to ones that are more setting-appropriate. I'm guessing that bright blues and yellows were probably less common as clothing colors back then, compared to whites, greys, and browns. Also, most spectators were probably dark-haired and bare-headed.

Oh, and I still can't officially condone Julian :) But I suppose K would actually be worse, which would mean having to jump from I to L. Hrm. (Hey, speaking of which... if "counterclockwise" doesn't have a U, should it really have a K?)
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