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Re: Unification [22/4] Version 3 pg 1.

Postby DiM on Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:00 am

unifercation?
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Re: Unification [22/4] Version 3 pg 1.

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:20 am

DiM wrote:unifercation?

Thanks DiM. :oops:

Same as what happened with Rorke's Drift but at least someone caught it early. Will change it today along with the names.
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Re: Unification [22/4] Version 3 pg 1.

Postby Oneyed on Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:45 am

koontz1973 wrote:Hungary toyed with Fascism afterwards but never went that way; much. Fascism in Hungary came around a lot later.


I did not say that Hungarian Empire was fascist. just idea about instauration of it has fascist hue ;)

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Re: Unification [22/4] Version 3 pg 1.

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:09 am

Just the word fascist around here can get a map binned, :P , lets try to stick to the current era please. ;)

Next draft here.
Changed the 2 spelling mistakes for the title and polish territ.
Added in some forests as mountains look bland on there own.
Fixed some issues with the legend.

Oneyed, I am going to leave the 2 polish territs where they are. As this is your region, can you give me names for any part of that region that you would be happy with. I have merged some of the counties for size and GP reasons. Did not really want another Romania or split it up like Hungary.
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Re: Unification [22/4] Version 4 pg 2.

Postby Gillipig on Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:10 am

I was wondering when you were going to make a Hungary map koontz. Guess now is the answer :)!
May I suggest changing the title to "Unification Hungary - Treaty of Trianon" to make it easier to understand what the map is about.

I''m far from history unknowledgable and I didn't know what Treaty of Trianon was about or what country Trianon lies in, so i can imagine most players won't.
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Re: Unification [22/4] Version 4 pg 2.

Postby nolefan5311 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:28 am

Can I suggest a little more contract in the greens and browns for us colorblind folks? The "minimap" bonus explanations do help quite a bit, but it still throws me off a little. Have you thought about making it similar to the Unification Germany and Italy maps? I'm sure Industrial Helix would give you permission to use the design, and it seems the bonus structures in those maps are similar to what you're trying to do here.

Also, the paragraph on the left needs a little work. Might I suggest something like this...

"Post WWI Europe lay in ruin. As a result of the Treaty of Trianon, the Hungarian Empire is reduced to 28% of its pre-war size. Unify Hungary once more." Something like that provides a little more information on exactly what happened (as Gillipig indicated in his post, this isn't a particularly well known outcome of WWI). Just a suggestion :)
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Re: Unification [22/4] Version 4 pg 2.

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:46 am

Sent IH a quick PM about the title and colours. If he agrees, then will go this way to a certain point. No point trying to copy him completely as they are his maps and this is mine. But I like the ideas guys, please keep them coming.
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Re: Unification [27/4] Version 5 pg 2.

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:33 am

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A lighter tone. :D

TO do list.
Names still need to be checked but most if not all are correct. ;)
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Re: Unification [22/4] Version 4 pg 2.

Postby Gillipig on Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:46 am

koontz1973 wrote:Sent IH a quick PM about the title and colours. If he agrees, then will go this way to a certain point. No point trying to copy him completely as they are his maps and this is mine. But I like the ideas guys, please keep them coming.

Any news from Industrial?
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Re: Unification [22/4] Version 4 pg 2.

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:49 am

Gillipig wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:Sent IH a quick PM about the title and colours. If he agrees, then will go this way to a certain point. No point trying to copy him completely as they are his maps and this is mine. But I like the ideas guys, please keep them coming.

Any news from Industrial?

He said yes to it, but when it came to drawing it, I sort of went of on a tangent which did not work, started again and tried to copy his design a lot more. In the end, I just could not bring myself with enthusiasm to get it done. ;) As I said, they are his maps and for the life of me, trying to copy someone's work does not inspire me to do good work. :-s Just look at the 4 maps further advanced than this one. Not one is a copy and all are different. :D The final map may not end up like this, it may take a lot of time before some thing strikes me as genius (only Rorke's Drift stayed the same throughout), but till that time, I will plod on with this as is as I am happy with it so far. :P
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Re: Unify ??? [27/4] Version 5 pg 2.

Postby Pirlo on Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:10 am

Cool map.. but I like its own graphic on your signature more.. dark colors just don't appeal to me.
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Re: Magyar [28/4] Version 6 pg 2.

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:46 am

Found my Mojo. Hope you like. ;)
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Re: Magyar [28/4] Version 6 pg 2.

Postby Pirlo on Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:14 am

yes this is better!
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Re: Magyar [28/4] Version 6 pg 2.

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:05 am

Thanks Pirlo, it was getting too dark. Now it is back on track.
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Re: Magyar [28/4] Version 6 pg 2.

Postby nolefan5311 on Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:25 pm

I like it a lot koontz. Well done.
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Re: Magyar [28/4] Version 6 pg 2.

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:06 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:I like it a lot koontz. Well done.

Thanks. Any chance of a move?
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Graphical clean up.
Graphical touch ups.
Added the back story in Hungarian as well. Fills a dead space. ;)
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Re: Magyar [29/4] Version 7 PG 1/3

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:04 am

Correct translation of text by jo5let
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Re: Magyar [29/4] Version 7 PG 1/3

Postby Solkim on Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:53 am

Technically, it is true that the Hungarian Nation was broken up, if we take "nation" to mean not "country" but - as it is supposed to be - a political-cultural unity of a certain people. Following this treaty approximately 30% (!) of the ethnically-culturally Hungarian population - or 3.3 million people - ended up outside the new borders, mostly in the north and east. Granted, some of those territories were ethnically mixed and minority Hungarian, but that was more of an excuse for the land grab, considering that many purely Hungarian areas were also annexed. In about a dozen cases the borders even ran through towns, separating familes for decades. In the few mixed towns where referendums were allowed, the decision was always in favor of belonging to Hungary.
To help you with an analogy: imagine that the southern US states are annexed to Mexico, because "it's the just thing to do" considering the large Hispanic population. This would also mean the annexation of millions of Hispanics who have an American rather than a Hispanic identity, and millions of non-Hispanic Americans, who have no desire whatsoever to be governed by Mexico. Add to this constant persecution, loss of rights in education and work, etc, etc... And then you start getting 1% of the picture.

Now, some spelling corrections:

Lipto ---- Liptó
Hajdú Bihar ---- Hajdú-Bihar
Csik ---- Not incorrect, strictly speaking, but Csík is more commonly used
Tata bánya ---- Tatabánya
Bács Kiskun ---- Bács-Kiskun

Dunantul ---- Dunántúl
Duna-Tisza-Koze ---- Duna-Tisza köze
Tiszantul ---- Tiszántúl
[fixed land bonus] Czechoslovak ---- Czechoslovakia
Can be attack by... ---- Can be attacked by...

Great idea. If I may suggest, Transylvania itself could be an excellent subject for a map, during the Principality Period. Turks, Hapsburgs, Hungarians, Saxons, Szeklers... Anyway, just a suggestion in case you are planning more maps. 2013 will be the 400th anniversary of Prince Bethlen ascending to the throne.
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Re: Magyar [29/4] Version 7 PG 1/3

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:41 am

Solkim, thanks a great deal for the corrections. Here they are on the map apart form the Czechoslovakia one as this is the modern English spelling. I have tried to use the original ones from the time, so a lot of kingdoms and republics on the legend.
Spellings.
Mountains.
Rivers.
Trees.
Legend placement.
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Re: Magyar [29/4] Version 7 PG 1/3

Postby Jatekos on Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:42 pm

A couple of suggestions:
- You could add something to the name of the map because "magyar" in itself means a person, a Hungarian citizen. It is also an adjective (e.g. Hungarian products). Do you you mean Hungary (Magyarország) or do you want to add one or more nouns to the name?
- "Tatabánya" is one word. Because of the hyphenation, you will need to write the name of the region as Tata- bánya (not Tata bánya).
- Also, the words "Tata" "bánya" on the map seem to have a strange grey background, that the other regions do not have. It is almost like the 2 words are underlined.
- Could you make the Kingdom of Croats, Serbs and Slovens a bit more orangish (or yellowish)? To me, it does not seem to be distinct enough from the colour of the other countries.
- I would also suggest to put the girdle of Budapest next to the name of the region to the "Safe land bonus" part of the legend.
- Please update your "ő" letters. You have a region with the name "VerŐce". It should be "Verőce". Same for "Győr".
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Re: Magyar [29/4] Version 7 PG 1/3

Postby ifuh on Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:28 pm

hi, as Játékos wrote very preciously the main legend is not in use like this .
Tatabánya is a city (established in the begining of the 20th century), not a county or region even if they have a pretty large bird there.

as I saw our ... friend's comment ... yess you touched the honey in the middle of the hive :-) and the bees are very very nervous.
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Re: Magyar [29/4] Version 7 PG 1/3

Postby disL on Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:11 pm

Well im native Hungarian and A from history, since I learn it.
The 90% of the map is good, but needs some changes.

The name should be "Magyarország" (Hungary) instead of "Magyar" (Hungarian)

Regions:
Agram is the German name of Zagreb, not another region so please make
Károlyváros instead of Agram
Spis is the slovakian name for Szepes.
so make
Szepes from Spis
and please make
Sáros from the current Szepes. Sáros is the region next to Zemplén
Orava is the slovak name for
ÁRVA so please make Árva from Orava.
Ogulin (in southwest) is just a croatian name for a city, not a region, the name of the region is originally Modrus(-Fiume) so please rename Ogulin to Modrus.
Tatabánya (in the middle) is just a 50 years old town, was never name of a region. The name of the region is for ~1000 years is Fejér, so please rename Tatabánya to Fejér

On the mid-south there are some regions which could easily change their place without problem (if we want to be geographically correct) For help use this map: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UK_e-uVmlzQ/T ... terkep.jpg

If you do the changes, the map will be correct in Hungarian language. Thank you for the map, its really nice.
Greetings,
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Re: Magyar [29/4] Version 7 PG 1/3

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:42 pm

Wow, lots of suggestions and corrections there. Think I got them all in but if I missed any, let me know. Keep them coming.

Version 8
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The new title does not fit in the space as nicely :( so any suggestions now taken for this. ;)
The text at the bottom of the map is now incorrect. Will fix later today.
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Re: Magyar [29/4] Version 7 PG 1/3

Postby Oneyed on Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:38 am

Solkim wrote:Technically, it is true that the Hungarian Nation was broken up, if we take "nation" to mean not "country" but - as it is supposed to be - a political-cultural unity of a certain people.


no. this is only demagogy of people who want "Great Hungary". in Austrian - Hungarian Empire lived many nations, each had its language, culture, history...

ths is definition of nation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation
Solkim wrote:Following this treaty approximately 30% (!) of the ethnically-culturally Hungarian population - or 3.3 million people - ended up outside the new borders, mostly in the north and east. Granted, some of those territories were ethnically mixed and minority Hungarian, but that was more of an excuse for the land grab, considering that many purely Hungarian areas were also annexed. In about a dozen cases the borders even ran through towns, separating familes for decades. In the few mixed towns where referendums were allowed, the decision was always in favor of belonging to Hungary.


do you know history of central europe? do you know that this area was annexed by Hungarians, do you know that all nations lived here before they were later annexed to Hungarian Empire? do you know something about magyarization?
Solkim wrote:To help you with an analogy: imagine that the southern US states are annexed to Mexico, because "it's the just thing to do" considering the large Hispanic population. This would also mean the annexation of millions of Hispanics who have an American rather than a Hispanic identity, and millions of non-Hispanic Americans, who have no desire whatsoever to be governed by Mexico. Add to this constant persecution, loss of rights in education and work, etc, etc... And then you start getting 1% of the picture.


this is very bad example and totaly out of situation in central europe.

Oneyed
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Re: Magyar [29/4] Version 7 PG 1/3

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:06 am

Oneyed wrote:
Solkim wrote:Technically, it is true that the Hungarian Nation was broken up, if we take "nation" to mean not "country" but - as it is supposed to be - a political-cultural unity of a certain people.


no. this is only demagogy of people who want "Great Hungary". in Austrian - Hungarian Empire lived many nations, each had its language, culture, history...

ths is definition of nation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation
Solkim wrote:Following this treaty approximately 30% (!) of the ethnically-culturally Hungarian population - or 3.3 million people - ended up outside the new borders, mostly in the north and east. Granted, some of those territories were ethnically mixed and minority Hungarian, but that was more of an excuse for the land grab, considering that many purely Hungarian areas were also annexed. In about a dozen cases the borders even ran through towns, separating familes for decades. In the few mixed towns where referendums were allowed, the decision was always in favor of belonging to Hungary.


do you know history of central europe? do you know that this area was annexed by Hungarians, do you know that all nations lived here before they were later annexed to Hungarian Empire? do you know something about magyarization?
Solkim wrote:To help you with an analogy: imagine that the southern US states are annexed to Mexico, because "it's the just thing to do" considering the large Hispanic population. This would also mean the annexation of millions of Hispanics who have an American rather than a Hispanic identity, and millions of non-Hispanic Americans, who have no desire whatsoever to be governed by Mexico. Add to this constant persecution, loss of rights in education and work, etc, etc... And then you start getting 1% of the picture.


this is very bad example and totaly out of situation in central europe.

Oneyed

oneyed, borders change over history. What one person may call one thing, others call it another. From the perspective of this map, Hungary includes all of the territory that was lost through the treaty. Rightly or wrongly, these regions once belonged to Hungary. And Hungary as the nation, not the empire. The demographics of the lost territory included lots of nationalities from bordering countries.

This is one of the reasons I sent a PM to the Hungarian nationals on the site, to make sure the territories have the correct names (Hungarian names). Some have, as you see have posted in the thread, while others with no English have sent me PMs. Must get those posted into the thread and translated.

You will aslo note that one of the territ names has reverted back to my original, again this is because it was called that by the Hungarians.
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