Map Foundry Gallery

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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby ender516 on Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:00 am

I have found limited access to a snapshot of chipv's Map Database via the Wayback Machine. Go to http://web.archive.org , enter http://chipv.freehostia.com/ in the search field and press the Take Me Back button. The snapshot does not give you everything, but there is some information that can be recovered.
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby cairnswk on Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:42 am

ender516 wrote:I have found limited access to a snapshot of chipv's Map Database via the Wayback Machine. Go to http://web.archive.org , enter http://chipv.freehostia.com/ in the search field and press the Take Me Back button. The snapshot does not give you everything, but there is some information that can be recovered.


You are my new knight in shining armour ender516. o/\o
=D> =D>
I found all the stuff about features that i was wanting right up to before Stalingrad - only have to re-do descriptions for some of them. Yeehah!!
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:57 am

ender516 wrote:I have found limited access to a snapshot of chipv's Map Database via the Wayback Machine. Go to http://web.archive.org , enter http://chipv.freehostia.com/ in the search field and press the Take Me Back button. The snapshot does not give you everything, but there is some information that can be recovered.


Wow! Great. Thank you very much. :D

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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby ender516 on Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:44 am

Happy to help. It would be a shame for all that information to have been lost.
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby cairnswk on Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:49 am

ender516 wrote:Happy to help. It would be a shame for all that information to have been lost.

Exactly, that why i am now making my own copy in spreadsheet of my stuff.
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby cairnswk on Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:00 pm

tnb80, here are my additions and adjustments in the attached text file.
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description adjustments submitted 20 Apr 2012.txt
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Last edited by cairnswk on Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby bedub1 on Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:11 pm

I posted this as a suggestion years ago. Glad to see somebody did it, even though CC didn't. It's good work, but not nearly where it could be if it was integrated into the site properly. Just goes to show that the best part of CC isn't CC, it's the add-ons. Without the add-ons, CC is a waste of time. Well, okay, it's a waste of time anyway.
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby thenobodies80 on Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:36 am

cairnswk wrote:tnb80, here are my additions and adjustments in the attached text file.


Thanks, going to update the data. :)

If someone else find something wrong or soemthing that can be updated, please post here.
I consider the current version like a Beta version, so all contributes to refine/improve it are really welcome! :)

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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby x-raider on Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:26 am

Thanks a heap for making this.
Nice background btw.
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby bedub1 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:38 pm

Your pages should be linked to here:
Image
And should also be linked here:
Image
And should replace this:
Click image to enlarge.
image

It should be the most prominent part of CC when new visitors come to the site. The maps make the game. The gameplay styles determine how you play the game on the maps. I can't believe this information is buried so far down.

You should include links to the forums where the maps where developed.
You should include basic strategy on the maps so n00bs don't get farmed.
I think it would be cool if there was a page like the current "browse maps" page that shows all the maps at once.
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby greenoaks on Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:03 am

a table of relevent info that could be sorted high to low, low to high would be good.

it would have total number of territories, starting territories for 2/3/4/5/6/7/8.

maybe some other info.
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:15 pm

we were saying about add some more items.
The special features, number of territories and starting drop are already there, just you can find them on the map pages.
If there's interest I can add them also in different way, i think you would like to have them all in one place to pick up maps considering a X criteria to play games or run a tournament. Right?
Then I think that there are different ways to implement this.
I think i can produce a couple of draft during the weekend so we can decide what way it's the best to follow and you can understand better what i'm saying. ;)
Now, what elements you would like to see in those pages/list?
Number of regions, special features (if yes which one?), starting drop (what criteris do you need for this?), anything else?

remember just one thing, i want to keep it simple....too tricky things require lot of time and they are hard to be updated or changed if necessary O:)

Let me know :)
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby Oneyed on Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:00 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:Now, what elements you would like to see in those pages/list?
Number of regions, special features (if yes which one?), starting drop (what criteris do you need for this?), anything else?


all these things you added there. I think that something as recommended settings could be fine. I found much maps where are killer neutrals, but killer neutrals do not work with Trench. and some of maps which have killer neutrals lost with trench their aim. for example King´s Court - here is King as killer neutral which is only one region which can assault any Castle. in trench it is not possible.

so somehting like this would be great.

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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby cairnswk on Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:24 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:... about add some more items.
....number of territories...
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What would be great is if these number of territories could be added as a sortable feature to the "new game", "join a game" and your gallery pages.
If it can't be added to these pages, then perhaps it can be added in to the database of the map names drop list field as in:
Classic (42)
Doodle Earth (18)
so that every map has the number of territories included behind the name.
This would enable players to chose maps for play from the number of territories also so they could see if the game is likely to be short or long play.
Just another suggestion for improvement.
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby greenoaks on Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:54 pm

someone recently wanted to run a tournament on maps where everyone started with 8 terits. i had to view each and every map to create a list. so for me i would like to see total terits and starting terits. maybe a yes/no for special features. if the map's name was a hyperlink it would be easy to flick to the map for an indepth look at the special gameplay
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby ender516 on Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:29 pm

Oneyed wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:Now, what elements you would like to see in those pages/list?
Number of regions, special features (if yes which one?), starting drop (what criteris do you need for this?), anything else?


all these things you added there. I think that something as recommended settings could be fine. I found much maps where are killer neutrals, but killer neutrals do not work with Trench. and some of maps which have killer neutrals lost with trench their aim. for example King´s Court - here is King as killer neutral which is only one region which can assault any Castle. in trench it is not possible.

so somehting like this would be great.

Oneyed

I just want to point out that killer neutrals are treated as an exception under trench warfare rules: if you capture a killer neutral territory, you can then continue to attack beyond the killer neutral territory, where with any other territory, you would be forced to stop.
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby Oneyed on Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:33 am

ender516 wrote:I just want to point out that killer neutrals are treated as an exception under trench warfare rules: if you capture a killer neutral territory, you can then continue to attack beyond the killer neutral territory, where with any other territory, you would be forced to stop.


did not know this. so therefore I lost so much trench games... :lol:
thanks ender.

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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:19 am

greenoaks wrote:someone recently wanted to run a tournament on maps where everyone started with 8 terits. i had to view each and every map to create a list. so for me i would like to see total terits and starting terits. maybe a yes/no for special features. if the map's name was a hyperlink it would be easy to flick to the map for an indepth look at the special gameplay


So a multi-selection page where you set some things and then the result is displayed as a list. So a sort of gamefinder page but about maps instead of games...
It was good to ask because I thought you wanted something different. :mrgreen:

Anyway, I need to make a couple of changes (or better add a couple of things) but it seems feasible.

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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby greenoaks on Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:19 am

thenobodies80 wrote:
greenoaks wrote:someone recently wanted to run a tournament on maps where everyone started with 8 terits. i had to view each and every map to create a list. so for me i would like to see total terits and starting terits. maybe a yes/no for special features. if the map's name was a hyperlink it would be easy to flick to the map for an indepth look at the special gameplay


So a multi-selection page where you set some things and then the result is displayed as a list. So a sort of gamefinder page but about maps instead of games...
It was good to ask because I thought you wanted something different. :mrgreen:

Anyway, I need to make a couple of changes (or better add a couple of things) but it seems feasible.

actually i did want something different. with the other way i could hit the sort button for the relevant field's title and scroll down.

i don't mind which way, i was just pointing out how time consuming it currently is to get that info. i'm a spreadsheet guy so i understand a large table with the ability to sort alpha/numerical on the columns.

for home i'd create a spreadsheet with Map Name, Total Terits, Starting Terits for 1v1, 2 player, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. Special features. that's 10 columns. the first row has the titles and is scroll locked so no matter how far down i scroll i'll see the name of the column. the 2nd thing i'd do is create a macro button the exact size of the cell containing the heading Map Name which sits on top of that cell. when i push that button it will sort the table alphabetically by map name. similar buttons would sit on the other headings allowing the spreadsheet to be sorted by their respective columns.

it is fairly easy for me to do that but then its not accessable to anyone else and it doesn't have your awesome graphics - macro buttons are all grey.

as i said either way is good. whichever way you think adds the most functionality to the map gallery.
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby greenoaks on Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:37 am

the other thing i thought could be in it would be a description of the map

maps like Classic, Germany, France, Middle East would be called Regular, Basic or some such name. other names could be Moderate, Complex.

i think that would be handy for TO's and players.
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:51 am

greenoaks wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:
greenoaks wrote:someone recently wanted to run a tournament on maps where everyone started with 8 terits. i had to view each and every map to create a list. so for me i would like to see total terits and starting terits. maybe a yes/no for special features. if the map's name was a hyperlink it would be easy to flick to the map for an indepth look at the special gameplay


So a multi-selection page where you set some things and then the result is displayed as a list. So a sort of gamefinder page but about maps instead of games...
It was good to ask because I thought you wanted something different. :mrgreen:

Anyway, I need to make a couple of changes (or better add a couple of things) but it seems feasible.

actually i did want something different. with the other way i could hit the sort button for the relevant field's title and scroll down.

i don't mind which way, i was just pointing out how time consuming it currently is to get that info. i'm a spreadsheet guy so i understand a large table with the ability to sort alpha/numerical on the columns.

for home i'd create a spreadsheet with Map Name, Total Terits, Starting Terits for 1v1, 2 player, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. Special features. that's 10 columns. the first row has the titles and is scroll locked so no matter how far down i scroll i'll see the name of the column. the 2nd thing i'd do is create a macro button the exact size of the cell containing the heading Map Name which sits on top of that cell. when i push that button it will sort the table alphabetically by map name. similar buttons would sit on the other headings allowing the spreadsheet to be sorted by their respective columns.

it is fairly easy for me to do that but then its not accessable to anyone else and it doesn't have your awesome graphics - macro buttons are all grey.

as i said either way is good. whichever way you think adds the most functionality to the map gallery.


This can be done. It works a bit different than an excel spreadsheet but the final result could be similar.

greenoaks wrote:the other thing i thought could be in it would be a description of the map

maps like Classic, Germany, France, Middle East would be called Regular, Basic or some such name. other names could be Moderate, Complex.

i think that would be handy for TO's and players.


This a gray area. I mean, if it's simple to define a basic map, when it comes to moderate or complex is not so simple to create a tag system that fits for everyone. From a coding point of view it's just add so np, the issue is the criteria to use .... :-k

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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby greenoaks on Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:34 am

i thought i'd mention it because a maps gallery that contains information about a map might be a good place to go for information about whether a map is simple, risk-like or is chock full of winning and losing conditions, killer neutrals and decay. and if you were able to do so and and lack is serious about integrating your gallery into his site then .......... muhahaha O:)
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby cairnswk on Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:46 am

thenobodies80 wrote:...
This a gray area. I mean, if it's simple to define a basic map, when it comes to moderate or complex is not so simple to create a tag system that fits for everyone. From a coding point of view it's just add so np, the issue is the criteria to use .... :-k

And that has always been a subjective challenge...there was great discussion some years back when Coleman and I were mods in the foundry, and yes the challenge was that everyone had differing views including mapmakers on what was moderate or complex.

A suggestion might be to have all "classic" maps with no frills xmls as "basic", and then two more groups defined by the xml types as fitting into the moderate or complex groups.
e.g. ranged attacked, one-way borders, starting positions bombardments etc as moderate
and somethings like killer neutrals, buildings, etc as complex

Just suggestions. :) There is a thread around somewhere that had this started by Coleman
viewtopic.php?f=127&t=36514&start=0
Hehe...there's some interesting topics discussed all the way back to 2007 -> is the foundry dying...seems like that one's been around forever and get rehashed every so often :) ...some as with map sizes. :)
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby Ffraid on Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:24 am

cairnswk wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:...
This a gray area. I mean, if it's simple to define a basic map, when it comes to moderate or complex is not so simple to create a tag system that fits for everyone. From a coding point of view it's just add so np, the issue is the criteria to use .... :-k

And that has always been a subjective challenge...there was great discussion some years back when Coleman and I were mods in the foundry, and yes the challenge was that everyone had differing views including mapmakers on what was moderate or complex.

A suggestion might be to have all "classic" maps with no frills xmls as "basic", and then two more groups defined by the xml types as fitting into the moderate or complex groups.
e.g. ranged attacked, one-way borders, starting positions bombardments etc as moderate
and somethings like killer neutrals, buildings, etc as complex

Well, if you want to avoid any subjectivity (thereby avoiding debate and, consequently, delay) you could just have two categories. Basic for no frills XML and everything else is not basic. "Not basic", obviously, not being a great name for the category but you get what I mean. While I don't think anyone would consider one-way borders "advanced", you're right, they're not absolutely no frills XML, which is a clear, objective, dividing line.

I don't really know, but I would imagine that the subjectivity of attempting to define what is merely moderate and what is complex is least a part of why there has never been any map categorization. And it sounds like a Gallery update is coming soon so, if you want any kind of category system in there, it may be best just to simplify for now. If, that is, you think that even a simple system is better than no system at all.
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Re: Map Foundry Gallery

Postby greenoaks on Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:02 am

i like the idea of Regular/Basic or some other 'tag' that defines maps with no xml features whatsoever.

i would like to propose a list of xml features is made and those features are rated. something like decay might be a point whereas not holding a certain terit and being eliminated might be worth 3 and a killer neutral might be a 2. my basic reasoning is losing 1 on a terit (decay) is minor so 1 point, losing lots on a terit (killer neutral) is 2 points, losing the game is a major feature (losing condition) therefore 3 points. there could be additional points for multiple features of the same type such as 2 different ways to win (AYBABTU).

the xml features of a map can then be tallied and the map rated based on the overall score. rating of the maps could be done in 3 broad categories such as Basic/Moderate/Complex or more like school reports where you get a Basic+ (B+) so it is a basic map with some minor Decay but not enough to rate as a Moderate map.

is anyone interested in such a discussion?
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