CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [Quenched]

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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [16.6.12] V7-P4

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:23 pm

tokle wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
tokle wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
tokle wrote:Looks interesting, but I have a request;
The title; could you write it out properly, in Cyrillic?
Since it's already in Russian, and sort of semi-cyrillic letters, it wouldn't take much to it properly.
To those of us who understand it, it just looks horrible like that.
And to those of us who don't understand it, it wouldn't make much of a difference anyway, would it?

I understand the faux-cyrillic you are doing at the bottom, though, but not in the title line.


You want this...tokle?
москва-Сити

thanks for taking me seriously.

Sorry, but your answer tells me nothing...i cannot read yes or no from that.
If no, please put up what you want.

How about just Mосква?

Deal !
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [16.6.12] V7-P4

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:05 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:Also, cairns, can you post in the thread or PM me what the continent names should be for the XML? As is, I have no idea, lol.

Those are now on the front page nolefan5311 :)
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [4.6.12] V6-P3

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:09 pm

koontz1973 wrote:
Just thought I would pop in and see. Here is a short list for you to look at but I am sure you already know these.
This is the area that I thought was great and needed copying all around.
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Yes, and i had already changed that in the Outer Khamovniki territory and asked for feedback a couple of posts back.


Still waiting for a reply from koontz1973 on this one :!
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [16.6.12] V7-P4

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:31 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:Ok, I reran the bonus spreadsheets and a couple of potential issues

The +2 in the 2 region bonus in the SW corner...adding that impassable between Gagarinsky and Ochakovo put the suggested decimal bonus down to 1.5, so 2 is a too high. So, I think you need to either remove that impassable (which messes with the whole 4 corner thing you have going on), or add an extra connection, maybe from Khamovniki to Gagarinsky. Also, if you look, Gagarinski is only attackable from one region, Akademichskiy, which starts as a neutral. That takes that territory out of play from the very beginning.


tbh...i wouldn't want to try to hold that territory without Akademicheskiy being a +2 since there are 3 borders on it's eastern boundary...even if the inner and outer neutrals are swapped. Having an impassable on its western back adds strength to it.
Since it's also the only 2 tert region on the outer-outer rim, it needs some strength to remain worthy of someone fighting over it.
Additionally, the +2 for the 4 region bonus is also too high as the spreadsheet indicates this should be 1.75. Adding a bridge between Khoroshevo Mnevniki to FIlevskiy Park (which would allow you to make that +3 a +4, since it's 5 regions).

Is not 1.75 close enough to 2 ?
As for turqouise, there are only three borders vacing assault, so i think that is fine with two of those assaulting territories being neutrals at start.

The only other issue I see is that both Khamovniki and Presnensoe border a ton of regions, and both start neutral. I think perhaps inversing the alternation of the neutrals across the inner/outer rings would be very beneficial (except for Zhamoskvorechye and Z.I.).

What do you think cairns?

Done.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [23.6.12] V8-P5

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:43 pm

Version 8
1. title change to Mockba
2. Inner and outer neutrals swapped.

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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [23.6.12] V8-P5

Postby Oneyed on Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:36 am

I notice that title Moskva is still not written right.

your "M" does not exist. and your "V" is russian "b".

try this: MockBa

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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [23.6.12] V8-P5

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:44 am

Oneyed wrote:I notice that title Moskva is still not written right.

your "M" does not exist. and your "V" is russian "b".

try this: MockBa

Oneyed


Oneyed...thanks for popping in...
it is actually written as Mockba but in the Kremlin Courier II Bold font. There is an M and a b.
The title has been changed from Moskva to Mockba.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [23.6.12] V8-P5

Postby Oneyed on Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:43 am

cairnswk wrote:it is actually written as Mockba but in the Kremlin Courier II Bold font. There is an M and a b.


just now I am looking at all Kremlin Courier II Bold and I must say it is far of Cyrilic.
cairnswk wrote:The title has been changed from Moskva to Mockba.


Cyrilic has another order as Kremlin, so you have written Moskda. in Cyrilic is order:
A, B, V, G, D... Kremlin has order A, B, C, D, E...

I will not "popping" you more if you say me that you do not care about Cyrilic and you want to write Moskva your way ;)
(but then you can write it in Chinese and say it is Cyrilic)...

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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [23.6.12] V8-P5

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:07 am

Oneyed wrote:
cairnswk wrote:it is actually written as Mockba but in the Kremlin Courier II Bold font. There is an M and a b.


just now I am looking at all Kremlin Courier II Bold and I must say it is far of Cyrilic.
cairnswk wrote:The title has been changed from Moskva to Mockba.


Cyrilic has another order as Kremlin, so you have written Moskda. in Cyrilic is order:
A, B, V, G, D... Kremlin has order A, B, C, D, E...

I will not "popping" you more if you say me that you do not care about Cyrilic and you want to write Moskva your way ;)
(but then you can write it in Chinese and say it is Cyrilic)...

Oneyed


Oneyed, i am surprised by this response, as I find it threatening to say the least.
Personally i don't bloody care if you don't want to offer anything if you are going to have an arrogant attitude, even if you are correct. Also, since you appear to be educated and writing in English, then please get the English correct.
"far of Cyrilic" should be "far off Cyrilic" or better still "far from Cyrillic" if you really want to be so pedantic. You also forgot the "be" in "i will not "popping" you more...this should be written as "i will not be "popping" you more...
It is not that i an unwilling to change it to want you want, i simply explained to you what i had done.
Now, moving forward, in the next version you will see it will be posted as MockBa :) or better still Моцкба (since that appears to be the correct Russian writing for the name)
And if you are not happy with this response then please do not come back into the thread and post...there are others who can and will fill your shoes.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [23.6.12] V8-P5

Postby nolefan5311 on Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:00 am

We will go ahead and get this stickied for the stamp...have to take a look at it later, but it's close enough as is for the sticky.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [23.6.12] V8-P5

Postby Oneyed on Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:18 am

cairnswk wrote:Oneyed, i am surprised by this response, as I find it threatening to say the least.


what exactly is threatening?
cairnswk wrote:Personally i don't bloody care if you don't want to offer anything if you are going to have an arrogant attitude, even if you are correct.


I offered you my Russian language knowledge. and arrogant attitude has this your last post...
cairnswk wrote:Also, since you appear to be educated and writing in English, then please get the English correct.


I just explain you what is correct in Russian language and where is difference between Cyrilic and Kremlin courier. and my English is poor, so if I will write Australija and any Englishman will tell me this is not correct I will be happy for help. so it is abject from you to show how better is you in English.
cairnswk wrote:It is not that i an unwilling to change it to want you want, i simply explained to you what i had done.
Now, moving forward, in the next version you will see it will be posted as MockBa :) or better still Моцкба (since that appears to be the correct Russian writing for the name)


it seems that maybe your Russian is more poor as my English. "or better still Моцкба" - this in English means Mockba.
cairnswk wrote:And if you are not happy with this response then please do not come back into the thread and post...there are others who can and will fill your shoes.


I learned Russian more as 10 years, so I know about what I speak. so it would be better for you to learn something as kicking off people from "your" thread.

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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [23.6.12] V8-P5

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:50 am

Oneyed wrote:just now I am looking at all Kremlin Courier II Bold and I must say it is far of Cyrilic.

This is true, but a true Cyrilic font would be unreadable to most so the title would be
nonsense. :-s

As far as I can see, the title of this map is written as Mockba which is what you wanted in a way...
Oneyed wrote:try this: MockBa

So as far as I can see, the title is correct but not in a font that is correct for the map. :P But the maps title needs to be able to be read so this font trumps what is correct. :mrgreen: It fits the maps style and is legible. Hats of to you cairnswk. =D>

This is a stupid thing to argue about right now. Graphics are next and it may all change. :roll:
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [23.6.12] V8-P5

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:38 pm

Oneyed wrote:...
I learned Russian more as 10 years, so I know about what I speak. so it would be better for you to learn something as kicking off people from "your" thread.

Oneyed

Oneyed...nobody is kicking you off the thread...i simply stated it that "i don't care if you don't want to offer anything..." and "if you are not happy with this response then please do not come back..." <- that is NOT kicking you off the thread.

but i was most unhapy with the initial statement you posted telling me i don't care about Cyrillic....
"I will not "popping" you more if you say me that you do not care about Cyrilic and you want to write Moskva your way ;)
(but then you can write it in Chinese and say it is Cyrilic)..."
...it is not that i don't care about Cyrillic, it is more important to me to have some consistency on the map and the use of the Kremlin font gave this consistency between title and legend - up to now. There is nothing written anywhere that says I have to write Moskva in Cyrillic, but in actual fact i would prefer to use something that is more identifiable to most players on this site.

koontz1973 wrote:...
This is a stupid thing to argue about right now. Graphics are next and it may all change. :roll:

correct koontz1973
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [23.6.12] V8-P5

Postby Oneyed on Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:16 pm

cairnswk wrote:Oneyed...nobody is kicking you off the thread...i simply stated it that "i don't care if you don't want to offer anything..." and "if you are not happy with this response then please do not come back..." <- that is NOT kicking you off the thread.


and what means this: "And if you are not happy with this response then please do not come back into the thread and post."

cairnswk wrote:but i was most unhapy with the initial statement you posted telling me i don't care about Cyrillic....
"I will not "popping" you more if you say me that you do not care about Cyrilic and you want to write Moskva your way ;)
(but then you can write it in Chinese and say it is Cyrilic)..."
...it is not that i don't care about Cyrillic, it is more important to me to have some consistency on the map and the use of the Kremlin font gave this consistency between title and legend - up to now. There is nothing written anywhere that says I have to write Moskva in Cyrillic, but in actual fact i would prefer to use something that is more identifiable to most players on this site.


I understand you and also that you use font which is close to majority of this site. but will you like when anybody will write Australja?
cairnswk wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:...
This is a stupid thing to argue about right now. Graphics are next and it may all change. :roll:

correct koontz1973


I am drunk now, to be honest totaly drunk,but what is stupid about care to have somethig corect? if I do any mistake in English text, several people will say me this is wrong. and I will be happy for help... so where is problem when I say this is not right in Russian?

fucking Oneyed

EDIT: hm, the man is man becasue he has answers to all questions, or he can say "I´m wrong". you just avoid some notices.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [23.6.12] V8-P5

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:37 pm

Oneyed ^^^
drunk eh? well, no use arguing with someone who is drunk. ;)
as stated initially it was written as MockBa but using the Kremlin (not Cyrillic)font, so in fact it is correct as it is.
you are welcome to post suggestions anytime. :)
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [23.6.12] V8-P5

Postby Oneyed on Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:44 pm

cairnswk wrote:drunk eh? well, no use arguing with someone who is drunk. ;)


why not? for example I (drunk or not) like your Trafalgar... ;)
cairnswk wrote:as stated initially it was written as MockBa but using the Kremlin (not Cyrillic)font, so in fact it is correct as it is.


if you can use Kremlin, ok. but in Kremlin you wrote Moskba. becasue as I wrote, Kremlin has order A, B, C, D. so maybe better will be to use Kremlin´s "v", which is behind "u" in order.

cairnswk wrote:you are welcome to post suggestions anytime. :)


and you in every mine :)

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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [23.6.12] V8-P5

Postby tokle on Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:52 pm

I agree with Oneye about the title. I don't know the font you're using, but does it have a normal looking M that you could use? The M you're sing is an up-side down Shcha.
And the name is spelled with a V not a B, so it should read "Moskva". It's just that the Cyrillic V looks like the Latin B.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [24.6.12] V9-P6

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:03 pm

tokle wrote:I agree with Oneye about the title. I don't know the font you're using, but does it have a normal looking M that you could use? The M you're sing is an up-side down Shcha.
And the name is spelled with a V not a B, so it should read "Moskva". It's just that the Cyrillic V looks like the Latin B.

tokle...i thought you wanted MockBa..."try this: MockBa"...i know it should be Moskva...but i get the impression that you both want MockBa...so

Anyways...this is version 9.
1. the title has been changed to MockBa in Kremlin font...i fon't think the "up-side down Shcha" is out of place except to those who are trying to read this in Cyrillic?
2. A plaque appears at the bottom for bonus legend
3. the bridges have been altered and more stylised.
4. the inner ring impassable has been bevelled

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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [23.6.12] V8-P5

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:58 pm

Oneyed wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:...
This is a stupid thing to argue about right now. Graphics are next and it may all change. :roll:

cairnswk wrote:correct koontz1973


I am drunk now, to be honest totaly drunk,but what is stupid about care to have somethig corect?

It is not stupid to care about something, but stupid to argue over something that may change in the graphics part of the foundry. As for the title myself, here are my thoughts on it.

Mockba, no matter how it is spelt or written, will not be recognised by 99% of conquer club players.
Moscow or Moskva are far more recognisable and like the current title, are correct. While these may be the English name and spelling for the city, they are correct. Another point for these two is that the rest of the map is in English. And before anyone says this is a stupid point as I have my maps (Magyarország) in Hungarian, this is completely different.
Out of the three titles here, the two English spellings have many points over Mockba, that it would be appropriate to have one of them instead.
Moscow.
English spelling that is recognisable by all players.
Spelt this way on the classic map (this is a classic cities map)
Rest of map is in English
Browse games/start a game pages, it will be written correctly.
Moskva.
English spelling that is recognisable by most players.
Rest of map is in English
Browse games/start a game pages, it will be written correctly.
Mockba.
Correct if you are Russian and as we only have 14 on the site, this is not really a major
thing. :P

I cannot see any reason why this map would be called Mockba apart from if the map maker wishes it to be called that. As for the back and forth over the title, do not push your ideas onto someone Oneyed whether drunk or not. Make a suggestion, if it is not picked up, so what, you have done what you feel would help the map, but in the end that is all you can do when it is not your map.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [23.6.12] V8-P5

Postby Oneyed on Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:08 am

koontz1973 wrote:It is not stupid to care about something, but stupid to argue over something that may change in the graphics part of the foundry.


I found that graphics is discused all time of map development to the point when map has Graphics stamp.
koontz1973 wrote:Mockba, no matter how it is spelt or written, will not be recognised by 99% of conquer club players.


so this is your answer why it would be written incorrect? 99% of players will also not recognized that you had mistakes in Hungarian text in your map, but you edited them after notices of Hungarians...
koontz1973 wrote:Moscow or Moskva are far more recognisable and like the current title, are correct. While these may be the English name and spelling for the city, they are correct. Another point for these two is that the rest of the map is in English.

And before anyone says this is a stupid point as I have my maps (Magyarország) in Hungarian, this is completely different.


what is different to have map in Hungarian and Russian?
koontz1973 wrote:Moscow.
English spelling that is recognisable by all players.
Spelt this way on the classic map (this is a classic cities map)
Rest of map is in English
Browse games/start a game pages, it will be written correctly.
Moskva.
English spelling that is recognisable by most players.
Rest of map is in English
Browse games/start a game pages, it will be written correctly.


yes, if title will be in English there would be no problem with spelling.
koontz1973 wrote:Mockba.
Correct if you are Russian and as we only have 14 on the site, this is not really a major
thing. :P


so because there are "only" 14 Russians you can piss off their language? how pedantic are you (English speaking men) when there is any mistake in English text (for example when I missed "the" in the text)...
did you count also Serbs? Greeks? Ukrainians? or other people from what was USSR?
koontz1973 wrote:do not push your ideas onto someone Oneyed whether drunk or not. Make a suggestion, if it is not picked up, so what, you have done what you feel would help the map, but in the end that is all you can do when it is not your map.


this is not "my idea", what is correct in Cyrilic or not. this is just Cyrilic...

koontz, I found you as very helpfull man in the foundry, but sometimes you ignore history.

cairnswk, my last notice for title. I see that you change rest of font in the map. why not to use Cyrilic for title, Kremlin is now also different from the rest of text.
to be honest, I like how you used Kremlin in the rest of the map and I understand that you can have something what looks like Cyrilic, but is readable.

good luck with this. everybody who did so great map as Trafalgar deserve support :)

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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [24.6.12] V`0-P6

Postby cairnswk on Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:24 am

OK decision made...sorry Oneyed and tokle...but the title will be changed back to Mosocw and in the Corbel font.
not more arguing...all in English. period.

Version 10.

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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [24.6.12] V10-P6

Postby tokle on Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:45 am

I don't have a problem with it being in English. I was just saying that if you were writing it in cyrillic you should have it written correctly. If you're not able to do that, then it's better like it is now.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [24.6.12] V10-P6

Postby cairnswk on Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:14 am

tokle wrote:I don't have a problem with it being in English. I was just saying that if you were writing it in cyrillic you should have it written correctly. If you're not able to do that, then it's better like it is now.

Thanks tokle. :)
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [24.6.12] V10-P6

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:59 am

Carrying on with the title (nice to see Moscow ;) ) and frame effect, it might be nice if the title was a tad smaller with bars running up and down to hold it in place. Similar to Rail Asia but a lot smaller.

Painting top right does not sit will with the other 3 but that might be as it is a lot darker than the others.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [24.6.12] V10-P6

Postby cairnswk on Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:34 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Carrying on with the title (nice to see Moscow ;) ) and frame effect, it might be nice if the title was a tad smaller with bars running up and down to hold it in place. Similar to Rail Asia but a lot smaller.

koontz...i have to say i'm not with you on this one...i don't feel it needs any bars, and in fact adding bars may overwork it...all the letters of the title connect to the outer frame so everything is already held in place sts...

Painting top right does not sit will with the other 3 but that might be as it is a lot darker than the others.

it is a little dark...i'll see if i can find another that is more daylight :)
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