Classic Cities: Madrid [Quenched]

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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [22/9] V9 Pg 1/4 New Names. GP?

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:13 am

iancanton wrote:merge orange and pink, which are two tiny bonus zones on the edge of the map. similarly, yellow and cyan. consider splitting green into two, to prevent the central area from becoming a wasteland that no-one wants.

Merging the two small ones to give another 5 territ bonus gives the south all the easy bonuses. Opened up orange so it is harder to get and hold and also stops it having one leading to the other bonus syndrome. Splitting green gives a 2 more regions of 3 but have reduced it by one and added retiro part to cyans area. See no reason to merge yellow and cyan now that cyan is 3 territs.

Why do you want so many 5 territ bonus regions? (Red, Green, Orange + pink, Yellow + cyan). That would only leave blue as an easy bonus.
straighten out most of the roads if u can. straight roads that take a turn only at intersections are typical of the city itself, while the motorway-style curves that u have fit the outer suburbs better. eliminate the centre line on the roads, to help to distinguish the zebra crossings.

ian. :)

Straighten out the roads? I do not understand this one. If this was Copenhagen of Miami, then I would agree, but what on this map gives you the impression of a typical city. ;)
Removed the centre line and you are right, the crossing look better.

Changed.
All territ names now correspond with the unique building inside the territ.
Area covered not is only the city centre.
Kept the river as is, if it goes to scale and nothing on this map is to scale it becomes so small it cannot really be seen.
Kept all bridge crossings as is.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [22/9] V9 Pg 1/4 New Names. GP?

Postby iancanton on Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:34 am

shaping up very well! while some famous landmarks aren't included, we have to make choices based on location, variety and image recognition. this u've done nicely, while keeping the colourful feel of the graphics.

koontz1973 wrote:Opened up orange so it is harder to get and hold and also stops it having one leading to the other bonus syndrome. Splitting green gives a 2 more regions of 3 but have reduced it by one and added retiro part to cyans area.

the extra connection to orange is a definite improvement.

koontz1973 wrote:Straighten out the roads? I do not understand this one.

just by looking at a madrid street map, u'll see that most streets inside the calle 30 ring road are straight. however, calle 30 itself is curved, just like the road u have going northward from retiro. i assumed that the coloured intra-zone border lines were supposed to be crossable streets, in which case it made sense that these were straight, but this assumption breaks down in casa de campo.

koontz1973 wrote:Kept all bridge crossings as is.

the best-known bridge across the river, and the only convenient one for most pedestrian tourists, is the puente de segovia, which connects palacio real with santa cristina. most reasonable routes from retiro park (which is nowhere near the river) to san miguel arcangel go via palacio real (puenta de segovia) or atocha, then via santa cristina.

http://www.campingaranjuez.co.uk/madrid ... govia.html

let's extend the palacio real gardens southward and atocha northward so that they together cut off retiro park from the river (which fixes the most obvious incongruity on the map). also, move the bridge so that it goes from palacio real to santa cristina. if u don't want to move the bridge, then it's possible to swap the position of santa cristina with that of san miguel arcangel, which has some logic because the latter is directly in between santa cristina and surbatan.

franços rodriguez ought to be francos rodriguez.

ian. :)
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [28/9] V10 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:15 am

What I meant about the roads (I know most are straight in the city) is that what impression have I given that this is in any way a normal city map. I wanted it to be colourful, fun, bring a little life to it so we do not get another straight map. I would like to keep them as they are (straighter than last time) but with that sense of fun about them.

Will move the palace and bridge. Can I keep the bridge I have so players recognise it?
Will move atocha north (I take it I can move the territ line itself and not the buildings?
santa cristina is north of san miguel arcangel so will not swap, but will move the buildings in that area to form an impassable and open up the other route.
Will correct spelling.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [28/9] V10 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:39 am

New.
Buildings in blue.
Changed bridge location from blue to green.
New territ font.
Territ line in cyan and buildings.
Spellings.
Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [1/10] V10 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby NoSurvivors on Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:58 am

Rename assdoodle assmadrid :lol: gl with the map! looks like fun!
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [28/9] V10 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby iancanton on Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:10 pm

koontz1973 wrote:What I meant about the roads (I know most are straight in the city) is that what impression have I given that this is in any way a normal city map. I wanted it to be colourful, fun, bring a little life to it so we do not get another straight map. I would like to keep them as they are (straighter than last time) but with that sense of fun about them.

NoSurvivors wrote:looks like fun!

i think we have a seal of approval!

koontz1973 wrote:Will move the palace and bridge. Can I keep the bridge I have so players recognise it?

bridges look good at the size that u have them. on cc maps, bridges are often so small that the detail is lost.

koontz1973 wrote:Will move atocha north (I take it I can move the territ line itself and not the buildings?

u've found a neat solution.

koontz1973 wrote:santa cristina is north of san miguel arcangel so will not swap, but will move the buildings in that area to form an impassable and open up the other route.

this works pretty well.

for the start positions, perhaps u can have underlying n1 positions in the large bonus zones but underlying n2 positions in the small bonus zones, so that the large bonuses look more attractive.

i'll take a copy with me to madrid this weekend and see whether i'm tempted to visit any of the places pictured.

ian. :)
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [1/10] V10 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:47 pm

Green and red get the one neutral and all others can have a two neutral.

24 territs.
2 player games - 6 territs
3 player games - 6territs
4 player games - 5 territs
5 player games - 5 territs
6 player games - 3 territs
7 player games - 3 territs
8 player games - 3 territs

Neutrals to go into. Max of one given out at start of games.
Lago de la casa de campo
Moncloa
Ventilla
Parque Agustin Rodriguez

Imagen Curiosa
Becquer
Atocha
San Miguel Arcangel
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [1/10] V10 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:24 am

Just bonuses.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [1/10] V10 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby iancanton on Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:40 pm

parroquia appears to mean parish church and there are several of these in madrid. the name of the church beside retiro park is parroquia del santísimo sacramento, but the shorter los sacramentinos is also used. we spotted one of the church towers by accident when exiting ibiza metro station to walk through retiro park to the palacio de cibeles.

bonus values match the zones much better now.

ian. :)
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [5/10] V10 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:53 pm

Named changed.
Moved other names and buildings around for better fit when army numbers go on.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [14/10] V11 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby Nola_Lifer on Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:34 am

Is it possible to have everything on this map in Espanol? I know we are suppose to keep it to English but Spanish is 2nd known language, it is a map about Madrid, it won't be that hard to figure out even if you don't know Spanish.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [14/10] V11 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:38 am

I would like that Nola but I think the position of the foundry is to have the legends in English and territ names in English or regions language.

If the blue boys say it is OK, I will get it done.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [14/10] V11 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:51 pm

Nola_Lifer wrote:Is it possible to have everything on this map in Espanol? I know we are suppose to keep it to English but Spanish is 2nd known language, it is a map about Madrid, it won't be that hard to figure out even if you don't know Spanish.

koontz1973 wrote:I would like that Nola but I think the position of the foundry is to have the legends in English and territ names in English or regions language.

If the blue boys say it is OK, I will get it done.

I don't see why not. We have France 1789 with French names, I believe the Iberia map has the names in the respective languages. Also Nordic countries does the same thing. thenobodies80 can correct me, but as long as the names are readable, then there should not be a problem. Just please don't try a map with oriental characters in the legend and the map!
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [14/10] V11 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:56 am

isaiah40 wrote:
Nola_Lifer wrote:Is it possible to have everything on this map in Espanol? I know we are suppose to keep it to English but Spanish is 2nd known language, it is a map about Madrid, it won't be that hard to figure out even if you don't know Spanish.

koontz1973 wrote:I would like that Nola but I think the position of the foundry is to have the legends in English and territ names in English or regions language.

If the blue boys say it is OK, I will get it done.

I don't see why not. We have France 1789 with French names, I believe the Iberia map has the names in the respective languages. Also Nordic countries does the same thing. thenobodies80 can correct me, but as long as the names are readable, then there should not be a problem. Just please don't try a map with oriental characters in the legend and the map!

I think Nola wanted it like this. All text in Spanish as the rules are simple and everybody should know (even new players) by extension of games played before. I very much doubt this would be map 1 for any player. Happy for it to go forward either way, but forward I would like to go. ;)
Map with all Spanish text.
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Original map with English legend.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [18/10] V11 Pg 1/5 Spanish Text

Postby ManBungalow on Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:55 am

This is still graphically overloaded.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [18/10] V11 Pg 1/5 Spanish Text

Postby cairnswk on Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:23 am

ManBungalow wrote:This is still graphically overloaded.


Koontz, i haveto agree with MB, ilooked at an earlier version and apart from the large buildings at the top of the map, i thought how nice and simply it is was, but then i saw this version and almost had caniptions....way too much happeneing on it now. :o
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [18/10] V11 Pg 1/5 Spanish Text

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:36 am

cairnswk wrote:
ManBungalow wrote:This is still graphically overloaded.


Koontz, i haveto agree with MB, ilooked at an earlier version and apart from the large buildings at the top of the map, i thought how nice and simply it is was, but then i saw this version and almost had caniptions....way too much happeneing on it now. :o


That may be so, but the larger buildings looked really bad when placed on the map all over. More buildings needed to go on and at the larger size, you could not get enough on to make it worth while. So the buildings became smaller. I understand the idea that it may have a lot going on, but it is still clear and not complicated. People may think that it has to many, some others may like it as it is. Either way, I am not going to win.

Here are the larger buildings, and to have them at this size where needed would not be a good idea. More are needed now for the impassables, and I do not think adding more roads to this one will make any difference apart from making it a more generic map (like all other city maps) and and even worse graphically.
Image

Guys, I understand that some of you lot may not like the style and can make the buildings a tad bigger but they will not go to the size they once where. But as for graphically overloaded, I have to disagree as I could of gone far more into the individual buildings. As now, all territs have one building that is unique for that area and the territ is names after it. Also, the above image, although clearer, is a complete waste of space as it is not even good.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [18/10] V11 Pg 1/5 Spanish Text

Postby cairnswk on Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:26 am

koontz, there is a big difference between style and overcrowding. :)
Who said you have to win in the debate about buildings...i thought the idea was to strike some balance between what people want !
i luv the style, it is quite unique, but you have it overcrowded with trees and buildings that do nothing to enhance the visuality of the piece.
Just because there is space available, does not mean you have to fill it up...less is more remember :) unless it fulfills a gameplay function.
Also, not a fan of the spanish text...when this is an english site and instructions need to be in english unless using names of places etc. otherwise nearly all of us will be rushing for the google translator :P
the crossing in the legend blends into the background also, can you lift it out a fraction so it is more visible.
i am not being overly critical here either, i am simply stating what i see between earier version and the current version, and i am offering to you that the map is overcrowded with icons. :)
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [18/10] V11 Pg 1/5 Spanish Text

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:31 am

I agree with the overcrowding part and that is what I wanted. Remember, this is a city that is full of life. Madrid is for a better word, overcrowded. But will make the buildings a tad larger and that will take care of the problem.

About the Spanish text, nola asked for it and isasah said it is worth a try so did it. I am happy either way.

Not taking this in a bad way at all has I always value your opinion (as it is given rarely).

Will make the buildings around 25-50% bigger. This will mean less of them on the map and solve the problem. Your point n the trees is also accepted, but remember, the zone with them in is the largest park within a city in the world.

But before I go through the trouble of redoing the buildings, I want the GP stamp. THat way I am not continuously doing them.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [18/10] V11 Pg 1/5 Spanish Text

Postby nolefan5311 on Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:20 pm

We'll go ahead and get this stickied for the gameplay stamp.

If anyone has any issues/concerns/questions, now is the time to make them heard. Otherwise, this will be stamped in 48 hours.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [18/10] V11 Pg 1/5 Spanish Text

Postby Pirlo on Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:53 am

I heard Madrid is the only European capital with no river :-k
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [18/10] V11 Pg 1/5 Spanish Text

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:22 am

Pirlo wrote:I heard Madrid is the only European capital with no river :-k

It is called Manzanares.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [18/10] V11 Pg 1/5 Spanish Text

Postby puppydog85 on Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:07 pm

That's because it was a hunting lodge, not a city.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [18/10] V11 Pg 1/5 Spanish Text

Postby pamoa on Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:37 pm

I'm not a great fan of your graphics but all tastes are in nature...
isn't your Spanish text in Italian ?!? :lol:
haven't you something more appealing for your bonus zone than colours
on gameplay side its just a plain classic map
is your neutral/start pos strategy still valid to avoid bonus at drop in the 2 a 3 zones bonuses
de gueules à la tour d'argent ouverte, crénelée de trois pièces et donjonnée d'un donjon ajouré, crénelé de deux pièces
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [18/10] V11 Pg 1/5 Spanish Text

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:42 pm

pamoa wrote:I'm not a great fan of your graphics but all tastes are in nature...
isn't your Spanish text in Italian ?!? :lol:
haven't you something more appealing for your bonus zone than colours
on gameplay side its just a plain classic map
is your neutral/start pos strategy still valid to avoid bonus at drop in the 2 a 3 zones bonuses

Graphics will change a tad as always. Cairns has asked for larger buildings so will work on those in a bit after stamp.
Bonus zones have to be colours as now it is only the centre of Madrid and only covers one and some districts.
The neutral starts will stop all bonuses being dropped every time in all game types. No one will ever get a bonus drop.
As for normal game play, I know we have it around a million times, but I wanted a map that has not got anything done to it and small.
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