WWII Pearl Harbor - [Quenched]

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Postby yeti_c on Mon May 21, 2007 4:29 am

cairnswk wrote:
yeti_c wrote:Didn't that yanks have any planes at PH?
C.
well yes...but during the intial stages of the attack most of their planes got slaughtered on the ford island airfield, and their other airfields away from pearl harbor couldn't get their planes off the ground until it was too late. that's why there are no us planes in this scenario. the ones on the ford island runway are repesented by the stars in the background, as these are the ones that got destroyed very quickly.


OK... sounds good to me...

What about subs from either side?

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Postby cairnswk on Mon May 21, 2007 4:47 am

yeti_c wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
yeti_c wrote:Didn't that yanks have any planes at PH?
C.
well yes...but during the intial stages of the attack most of their planes got slaughtered on the ford island airfield, and their other airfields away from pearl harbor couldn't get their planes off the ground until it was too late. that's why there are no us planes in this scenario. the ones on the ford island runway are repesented by the stars in the background, as these are the ones that got destroyed very quickly.

OK... sounds good to me...
What about subs from either side?
C.

Yes again C. ...
see timeline here: http://plasma.nationalgeographic.com/pearlharbor/
the first attack or should I say raise of the alarm occured at the harbor entrance some several hours before the attack. Submarine persiscope was sighted. There were 4 submaries in harbor near where the word Honolulu is, and i deliberately didn't put these in as I don't think they suffered too much damage, and it would be cramped there for space.
There was one JN sub attacked in the harbor, but i chose again to deliberately leave this out.
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Postby yeti_c on Mon May 21, 2007 5:07 am

OK... I was unsure on some stuff - glad to hear you've researched it fully.

Interesting NG presentation.

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V5 Update

Postby cairnswk on Mon May 21, 2007 5:10 am

DiM wrote:i understood the red bottom part is suposed to represent flames and battle and stuff. i tried ignoring it but it did not work. i tried accepting it as it is and that failed too. the darn thing looks like a train in the sunset and it bugs the heck out of me. i can't possibly think how could a train in the sunset be representative for pearl harbour :roll:

no not a train DiM - you know that is another map....but i have changed the image and hope this one has more appeal, also change the colours to make them less outstanding.

also one more issue. in the pearl harbour battle we had 2 sides japan vs US. well this 2 sides thing is not clearly visible on the map. for example in d-day r eastern front the 2 sides are very clearly depicted. can something be done? it's not a big issue. i guess it's just a psichological matter

DiM...i don't really think this should be an issue. There is the US represented very well by the flag, and the stars on the runway if that isn't clear enough i'll be a monkies....
And since the japanes were involved, i thought the presentation of the Krates and Zeroes in colour would be enough of a represnetation, however, you have doubts...so i have added the rising sun in the top right corner faded in the background to indicate that this is NOT japanese soil. while it is i OK for someone else to represent two sides, don't think for an instance that I am going to follow the exmaples of Eastern Front, and there should be no reason why both sides have to be represented in such a manner. :lol:


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Postby cairnswk on Mon May 21, 2007 5:16 am

yeti_c wrote:OK... I was unsure on some stuff - glad to hear you've researched it fully.

Interesting NG presentation.

C.

Oh Yeti....i'm attemtping one of the most important maps in US and indeed war history here...I think I wouldn't be doing everyone out there justice if I didn't research it properly...even though for gameplay issues I have taken a llittle artistic license.
Yes it was an interesting presentation, very succinct.
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Postby yeti_c on Mon May 21, 2007 5:58 am

cairnswk wrote:
yeti_c wrote:OK... I was unsure on some stuff - glad to hear you've researched it fully.

Interesting NG presentation.

C.

Oh Yeti....i'm attemtping one of the most important maps in US and indeed war history here...I think I wouldn't be doing everyone out there justice if I didn't research it properly...even though for gameplay issues I have taken a llittle artistic license.
Yes it was an interesting presentation, very succinct.


That's cool - I'm done with suggestions for the time being...

Altho perhaps this one - but might make it confusing... the planes and boats are attacking each other... perhaps make it so only boats can attack planes and vice versa?!

I'm not sure whether that would work or not though...

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Postby cairnswk on Mon May 21, 2007 6:20 am

yeti_c wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
yeti_c wrote:OK... I was unsure on some stuff - glad to hear you've researched it fully.

Interesting NG presentation.

C.

Oh Yeti....i'm attemtping one of the most important maps in US and indeed war history here...I think I wouldn't be doing everyone out there justice if I didn't research it properly...even though for gameplay issues I have taken a llittle artistic license.
Yes it was an interesting presentation, very succinct.


That's cool - I'm done with suggestions for the time being...

Altho perhaps this one - but might make it confusing... the planes and boats are attacking each other... perhaps make it so only boats can attack planes and vice versa?!

I'm not sure whether that would work or not though...

C.


I had thought of that...but in reality the guns on the boats were able to return fire on the planes, even though it kinda did them no good. I'll see if anyone else calls for that, and perhaps we can go there then. :)
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Postby yeti_c on Mon May 21, 2007 6:54 am

cairnswk wrote:
yeti_c wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
yeti_c wrote:OK... I was unsure on some stuff - glad to hear you've researched it fully.

Interesting NG presentation.

C.

Oh Yeti....i'm attemtping one of the most important maps in US and indeed war history here...I think I wouldn't be doing everyone out there justice if I didn't research it properly...even though for gameplay issues I have taken a llittle artistic license.
Yes it was an interesting presentation, very succinct.


That's cool - I'm done with suggestions for the time being...

Altho perhaps this one - but might make it confusing... the planes and boats are attacking each other... perhaps make it so only boats can attack planes and vice versa?!

I'm not sure whether that would work or not though...

C.


I had thought of that...but in reality the guns on the boats were able to return fire on the planes, even though it kinda did them no good. I'll see if anyone else calls for that, and perhaps we can go there then. :)


No no - I think you mis understand...

At present you have planes attacking planes & ships attacking ships...

In reality Planes attacked Ships and the Ships (like you say) returned fire...

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Postby cairnswk on Mon May 21, 2007 7:02 am

yeti_c wrote:No no - I think you mis understand...
At present you have planes attacking planes & ships attacking ships...
In reality Planes attacked Ships and the Ships (like you say) returned fire...
C.

Mmmmm. ok I understand what you say there, but how does one get around the whole map...the attack lines are surely a link between the different continents...don't you think?
Any suggestions would be welcome.
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Re: V5 Update

Postby DiM on Mon May 21, 2007 7:08 am

cairnswk wrote:
DiM wrote:i understood the red bottom part is suposed to represent flames and battle and stuff. i tried ignoring it but it did not work. i tried accepting it as it is and that failed too. the darn thing looks like a train in the sunset and it bugs the heck out of me. i can't possibly think how could a train in the sunset be representative for pearl harbour :roll:

no not a train DiM - you know that is another map....but i have changed the image and hope this one has more appeal, also change the colours to make them less outstanding.


this one's much better. i can see the ships the ships on fire. it's great. but at least tell me what the other one was. i know it wasn;t a train but it sure looked like one. i think it was a subliminal message :P


cairnswk wrote:
DiM wrote:also one more issue. in the pearl harbour battle we had 2 sides japan vs US. well this 2 sides thing is not clearly visible on the map. for example in d-day r eastern front the 2 sides are very clearly depicted. can something be done? it's not a big issue. i guess it's just a psichological matter

DiM...i don't really think this should be an issue. There is the US represented very well by the flag, and the stars on the runway if that isn't clear enough i'll be a monkies....
And since the japanes were involved, i thought the presentation of the Krates and Zeroes in colour would be enough of a represnetation, however, you have doubts...so i have added the rising sun in the top right corner faded in the background to indicate that this is NOT japanese soil. while it is i OK for someone else to represent two sides, don't think for an instance that I am going to follow the exmaples of Eastern Front, and there should be no reason why both sides have to be represented in such a manner. :lol:


i love the japanese flag. i'm not saying you should copy the other maps each is unique but since this is a historical battle between 2 sides normally i expect to clearly see those sides.
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Postby yeti_c on Mon May 21, 2007 7:15 am

cairnswk wrote:
yeti_c wrote:No no - I think you mis understand...
At present you have planes attacking planes & ships attacking ships...
In reality Planes attacked Ships and the Ships (like you say) returned fire...
C.

Mmmmm. ok I understand what you say there, but how does one get around the whole map...the attack lines are surely a link between the different continents...don't you think?
Any suggestions would be welcome.


Yeah that's the problem... that's why I wasn't sure it would work?!

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Re: V5 Update

Postby cairnswk on Mon May 21, 2007 7:22 am

DiM wrote:this one's much better. i can see the ships the ships on fire. it's great. but at least tell me what the other one was. i know it wasn;t a train but it sure looked like one. i think it was a subliminal message :P


it was the bottom of this one....i wanted to use this whole image as a frame but it would make things so cramped....it just didn't work,,,and clearly if you weren't ab;e to recognise what it might be, then it didn't work anyways.

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i love the japanese flag. i'm not saying you should copy the other maps each is unique but since this is a historical battle between 2 sides normally i expect to clearly see those sides.
fair enough. everyone has their own expectations.

I'm pleased that the changes have pleased you...you have no idea how that pleasing that is. :)
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Re: V5 Update

Postby DiM on Mon May 21, 2007 8:18 am

cairnswk wrote:
DiM wrote:this one's much better. i can see the ships the ships on fire. it's great. but at least tell me what the other one was. i know it wasn;t a train but it sure looked like one. i think it was a subliminal message :P


it was the bottom of this one....i wanted to use this whole image as a frame but it would make things so cramped....it just didn't work,,,and clearly if you weren't ab;e to recognise what it might be, then it didn't work anyways.

Image

i love the japanese flag. i'm not saying you should copy the other maps each is unique but since this is a historical battle between 2 sides normally i expect to clearly see those sides.
fair enough. everyone has their own expectations.

I'm pleased that the changes have pleased you...you have no idea how that pleasing that is. :)


that bottom part sure looks like a train :lol:

i'm pleased that you're pleased that i'm pleased and the fact you are pleased pleases me.

](*,) :lol:
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Postby hulmey on Mon May 21, 2007 9:41 am

I think you could alot better than this without all the confusing lines that go with the map. Maybe you could try something along the lines of mibi's D-day so that you can cut out all the confusing lines going all over the place.

Im not sure why it is but your maps all look like diagrams as well. Take note bottom right hand corner!!! The buildings there are i suppose meant to be 3-D but fail and look lopsided.
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Re: V5 Update

Postby cairnswk on Mon May 21, 2007 3:10 pm

DiM wrote:that bottom part sure looks like a train :lol:

You're joking right?! :o
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Re: V5 Update

Postby DiM on Mon May 21, 2007 3:20 pm

cairnswk wrote:
DiM wrote:that bottom part sure looks like a train :lol:

You're joking right?! :o


not in the new version. in the old one. :D
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Postby cairnswk on Mon May 21, 2007 3:33 pm

hulmey wrote:I think you could alot better than this without all the confusing lines that go with the map. Maybe you could try something along the lines of mibi's D-day so that you can cut out all the confusing lines going all over the place.


hulmey...thanks for sropping in again...look, i reall don't know what to say to you, but you seem to have a pet aversion to attack lines.
I have examined mibi's D-Day and that map and my pearl harbor are about like chalk and cheses. d-Day takes place on 3/4 of the map which is land which is why there is able to be no attack lines but rather chunks of land bordering each other.

much of this map takes place at sea once again like battle for australia, and short of designing hexagons all over the place and odd shapes i'd rather see attach lines which I don't think are confusing, and so far neihter has anyone else who has posted this forum or seen this map....certainly again you are the only person to say against it.

Im not sure why it is but your maps all look like diagrams as well. Take note bottom right hand corner!!! The buildings there are i suppose meant to be 3-D but fail and look lopsided.


OK so you don't like diagrams either. Sometimes a diagram portrays the desired effect better than a map, and honestly I don't really see the difference in many curcumstance. The fact that you recognise the 3-D part of the building i think is a success to start with. And yes they would look lopsided if they are angled in different ways to remove the conformity from the design....but these buildings have all had the same
angle of perspective applied to them. I think they work a treat. :)
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Re: V5 Update

Postby cairnswk on Mon May 21, 2007 3:34 pm

DiM wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
DiM wrote:that bottom part sure looks like a train :lol:

You're joking right?! :o

not in the new version. in the old one. :D

I still question which eye you're viewing that through LOL :lol: :lol:
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Re: V5 Update

Postby DiM on Mon May 21, 2007 3:47 pm

cairnswk wrote:
DiM wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
DiM wrote:that bottom part sure looks like a train :lol:

You're joking right?! :o

not in the new version. in the old one. :D

I still question which eye you're viewing that through LOL :lol: :lol:


through my fourth :twisted:
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Re: V5 Update

Postby cairnswk on Mon May 21, 2007 3:50 pm

DiM wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
DiM wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
DiM wrote:that bottom part sure looks like a train :lol:

You're joking right?! :o

not in the new version. in the old one. :D

I still question which eye you're viewing that through LOL :lol: :lol:

through my fourth :twisted:

ooohhhh...that's surely a devil :lol:
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Postby hulmey on Mon May 21, 2007 5:26 pm

im sure intead of having all those lines connecting the airplanes you could come up with something genius. Off the top of my head you could add a note in the legend (planes attack each other to the right only for example).

Theres not point having 3d buildings when the maps in 2d......Everything should be 2d or 3d not a mixture of both!!!

Hope you dont take my sropping in AGAIN , in a negative way. things cant be all rosy and great from the beginning. Your not mibi lol :D
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Postby cairnswk on Tue May 22, 2007 3:10 am

hulmey wrote:im sure intead of having all those lines connecting the airplanes you could come up with something genius. Off the top of my head you could add a note in the legend (planes attack each other to the right only for example).

Prob with that Humley is that it might look good, but as I found out with the Valley Of the Kings map when I tried to do that and have the concept of attacking through space, it didn't quite work like WM's King of the Mountains, potential players couldn't follow the map, and there was a request to simplify it so that people could understand it. so let me think on it, and if I come up with anything ingenius, then i'll let you know.

Theres not point having 3d buildings when the maps in 2d......Everything should be 2d or 3d not a mixture of both!!!

Contraire! Hulmey....i beleive 3D images can look good on 2D background and indeed one of the most popular maps...Tamriel i think it is does this very well. I have also opted for 3d Mountains in my CCC map and that turned out quite well also. Once again, it doesn't have to be so black and white with everything....mixing in grey areas does create new ideas and designs.

Hope you dont take my sropping in AGAIN , in a negative way. things cant be all rosy and great from the beginning. Your not mibi lol :D

Oh i'm well aware that i'm not mibi.... :) and I would never compare myself to mibi or anyone else...i have my own style...and likes and dislikes to start with...and I think it is wrong of you to try to compare me or any other map maker to mibi or anyone else. perhaps you would find more joy if you treated us and our maps all individually and say well that's how or what he does, let's see if we can improve on it for him/her.
I don't exactly expect things to be rosy from the start, and I don't at all mind you sropping in...afterall that what the forum is about. :D
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Postby KEYOGI on Tue May 22, 2007 4:18 am

Just a quick look over the visuals as that's all I have time for at the moment. The uniform texture over the map seems to be clashing with the visual style you have going here. You've got 3D ships, planes and buildings and a uniform texture slapped over the terrain and water. Perhaps consider trying to add some depth to the landscape. I'd start by mixing up the textures for a start and perhaps see if you can make it appear that the land is higher than the water.

It's just my personal opinion, but I find the perspective of the buildings and ships to be a bit strange. The planes are ok because they can tilt in flight and appear more or less top-down anyway, but you've got a 2D landscape with some sort of attempt at 3D isometric perspective and it just doesn't sit right with me.

Another little thing is the ships around the Naval Yard docks appear to be half in water, half on the dock. It just looks a little odd. :wink:
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Postby hulmey on Tue May 22, 2007 2:20 pm

There you go, im not going insane then.
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Postby cairnswk on Tue May 22, 2007 4:04 pm

hulmey wrote:There you go, im not going insane then.

no-one said u were going insane hulmey...LOL..just that everything is in the eye of the beholder.....and everyone doesn't always see the same things....and you and keyogi might be adverse to new ideas being tested.
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