[Official] Circus Maximus REVAMP [Quenched]

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Postby WidowMakers on Fri May 25, 2007 5:33 am

Molacole wrote:it looks good, but the main thing making this map a turn off for me is the angle it's pitched at. I think a lesser angle would look a lot better. Closer to horizontal side is what I was thinking
I rendered it this way to show as much of the stadium as I could. I want players to know what they are looking at. The first time i saw the current map I knew what it was (chariot racing) but I had no real idea of where or what the stadium was like. I did try to go more horizontal but both ends of were cut off. I do not just want to make a prettier version of the current map in top view either.
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Postby yeti_c on Fri May 25, 2007 6:06 am

WidowMakers wrote:Once again. I did model the entire map in MAYA (a 3d program) all of the ground, stadium, boxes,barrels, and chariots are setup to the proper perspective to each other.


Ah I see it now...

What I thought was a slope up the wall is actually still flar... My mistake...

From this angle it looks like it could've been a slope - not a problem with the angle - that's the problem with Isometrics...

There is no line to indicate a slope though so I get it now...

One smal thing then... the fence on the back of the Arches is lower on the diagonal bit than on the straight bit... Could you tweak it up so it matches... - it's especially noticeable where the diagonal and straight bit meet.

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Postby Molacole on Fri May 25, 2007 7:41 am

Well if you're going to persue it I'll try and help out the best I can because I like the current map a lot for assassin games!

for a stadium feel think you could throw in some type of VIP box area where the king would be?

A close up or maybe more defined\visable chariots would look better too imo, but doubt it could be done with the amount of space you have to work with.

Could you make your center piece more like the center pieces in these 2 pictures?

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Postby DiM on Fri May 25, 2007 9:11 am

WidowMakers wrote:
DiM wrote:i just realized a big problem the arena gate is not simetrical.

aslo flags and banners should be added in the center
Well the arena is not symmetrical. I took a series of pictures of circus maximus that I found on the web and adapted them to this map This is a pretty close idea of what it looked like. Only it was much longer.

As for the flag and banners, do you mean in the center of the track? Along the long gray center piece right? I will see what i can do. The reason I did not add any was that they would hide visibility of the track.

Wisse wrote:i don't like the people and the horse riders i hope you can make them better
by better i assume you mean easier to see. Well there is not much more I can do. You see the crowd is an ACTUAL crowd from a football or baseball game I found on the web. It is just copied and scaled. So it IS a crowd. The chariots and horses are 3d renderings, in perspective and place in the 3D track. This is what my version of Circus maximus would look like from a blimp. I can really make any changes to the chariots that would make them look more real. They are so small.



if you look at the bottom image put by molacole you'll see the gates are symmetrical. on top of the gate you have 2 lateral towers and a center one. the center one is really in the center at equal distance from the lateral ones. in your map the center tower is a bit towards the left tower. and this looks strange.

yes i mean the center gray piece.


also i agree with wisse about the chariots. you could make them larger even if it's not realistic. let's just say that since they are the main actors they deserve an artistic resize to emphasize their importance.
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Postby Wisse on Fri May 25, 2007 10:39 am

WidowMakers wrote:
DiM wrote:i just realized a big problem the arena gate is not simetrical.

aslo flags and banners should be added in the center
Well the arena is not symmetrical. I took a series of pictures of circus maximus that I found on the web and adapted them to this map This is a pretty close idea of what it looked like. Only it was much longer.

As for the flag and banners, do you mean in the center of the track? Along the long gray center piece right? I will see what i can do. The reason I did not add any was that they would hide visibility of the track.

Wisse wrote:i don't like the people and the horse riders i hope you can make them better
by better i assume you mean easier to see. Well there is not much more I can do. You see the crowd is an ACTUAL crowd from a football or baseball game I found on the web. It is just copied and scaled. So it IS a crowd. The chariots and horses are 3d renderings, in perspective and place in the 3D track. This is what my version of Circus maximus would look like from a blimp. I can really make any changes to the chariots that would make them look more real. They are so small.


ok for the chariots change them and make them bigger
but for the crowd, you see its all red and they have to much space between them for this stadion
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Postby Guiscard on Fri May 25, 2007 10:41 am

Looks very nice... But I would agree about adding in the arrows present in the original version to dictate the direction.
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Postby spinwizard on Fri May 25, 2007 10:47 am

chariots r too bright
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Postby icemonkey on Fri May 25, 2007 11:59 am

Heres some more detail about the center part of the track from Wikipedia, in case you didn't look it up already.

The track could hold twelve chariots, and the two sides of the track were separated by a raised median termed the spina. The spina was set slightly diagonally. Statues of various gods were set up on the spina, and Augustus erected an Egyptian obelisk on it as well. At either end of the spina was a turning post, the meta, around which chariots made dangerous turns at speed. On top of the spina, there were rotatable metal dolphins that were turned down to mark laps around the course.

So I think you should add at least some of that to the center, an obelisk would be cool I think.

Also I agree with the aforementioned: Add a special area for the emperor theres one in the second picture from molacole

Chariots are too bright and too small

But looks like a great start!
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Postby WidowMakers on Fri May 25, 2007 12:45 pm

DiM wrote:if you look at the bottom image put by molacole you'll see the gates are symmetrical. on top of the gate you have 2 lateral towers and a center one. the center one is really in the center at equal distance from the lateral ones. in your map the center tower is a bit towards the left tower. and this looks strange.
There are many different pictures or renderings of it on the web. I used a different one.

Image

I used different aspects of several images and my own touch. Plus the actual Length to Width of the circus and the map is no where near the same. I have had to make adjustments.
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Postby WidowMakers on Fri May 25, 2007 1:12 pm

OK here is a quick update.
*I added stuff in the middle. I only had about 20 minutes so it is real quick. I just wanted to get a feeling of what it would look like and if it would mess up any army circle placement. I think it looks good.
*I added the emperor portion of the grand stands.
*lightened the track portion
*changed the names back to the original layout style (much better)
*added arrows to point the direction of each lane.

Things I do not want to update.
*I really don't want to make the chariots bigger. I want the map to have a HUGE feel to it. Making the chariots bigger just makes the crowd look bad. I want to keep it to scale as much as possible.
*I don't want to lower the brightness of the chariots because they are the 6 colors of the armies in a 6 player game.

Things I am planning on updating
*add banner under the emperor's seating area (the gray is just to dull right now)
* work on the texture and color of the spires and statues in the middle.

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XML
http://www.mediamax.com/dzlqps/Hosted/C ... imus_3.xml
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Postby DiM on Fri May 25, 2007 1:36 pm

WidowMakers wrote:
DiM wrote:if you look at the bottom image put by molacole you'll see the gates are symmetrical. on top of the gate you have 2 lateral towers and a center one. the center one is really in the center at equal distance from the lateral ones. in your map the center tower is a bit towards the left tower. and this looks strange.
There are many different pictures or renderings of it on the web. I used a different one.

Image

I used different aspects of several images and my own touch. Plus the actual Length to Width of the circus and the map is no where near the same. I have had to make adjustments.


well, in the picture you used the gates are symmetrical while in your map there is clear difference. this kind of asymmetry would have never been accepted in roman architecture. that's why it bugs me.

here's an image to make things clearer:

Image

notice on the photo how the middle tower is right in the middle and the number of arches is the same on each side?

now look at your map. not only the middle tower is not centered but the arches are wrong. you have 4 small arches on the right side and 2 larger ones on the left.

i like that you added the emperor's stand but you should also add the entrance in the lower part. near caligula.


also on the chariots bit. making them bigger would greatly enhance the feel. at the moment they look like fleas. make them bigger and you'll have a nice effect. don't exaggerate with how big you make them though.

the shapes in the middle. the chariots are nice but the rest don't quite fit. where are the dolphins? and what about the symmetry? the have no order, those are just random cubes and cones.


PS: one thing i just noticed. the flags on the emperor's side are waving in the wind while the ones in the bottom part are simple triangles. make those wavy too.
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Postby Beastly on Fri May 25, 2007 3:43 pm

I am a fan of this map, great job on the improvements!!!

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
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Postby Wisse on Fri May 25, 2007 4:34 pm

also from the symmetry DIM is talking about the things where the crowd is:
the side in the front looks much higher than the other side
and the one in the front the thin part is to thin
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Postby pepperonibread on Fri May 25, 2007 4:36 pm

Well, I miss 3 days in the Foundry and look what happens. Looks awesome right now (but I still won't play it).
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Postby WidowMakers on Fri May 25, 2007 5:55 pm

Wisse wrote:also from the symmetry DIM is talking about the things where the crowd is:
the side in the front looks much higher than the other side
and the one in the front the thin part is to thin
It is called perspective. The point of view of the camera makes the close side look thinner. That is the nature of 3D.
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Postby wicked on Fri May 25, 2007 6:02 pm

Sooo.... how are you going to change playibility? that's what sucks about this map, not the graphics.
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Postby Coleman on Fri May 25, 2007 6:40 pm

wicked wrote:Sooo.... how are you going to change playibility? that's what sucks about this map, not the graphics.

Completely disagree. The playability is why it gets played when it does.
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Postby mibi on Fri May 25, 2007 6:53 pm

WM this maps looks fantastic, you are very talented... how did you make the people?
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Postby WidowMakers on Fri May 25, 2007 7:56 pm

mibi wrote:WM this maps looks fantastic, you are very talented... how did you make the people?
They are an actual picture of people in a stadium. I them deleted out spaces with different eraser shapes. I added a bevel to the entire crowd to help with the lighting.
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Postby DiM on Fri May 25, 2007 8:02 pm

since my post seems to be ignored i'll quote it again:

DiM wrote:
WidowMakers wrote:
DiM wrote:if you look at the bottom image put by molacole you'll see the gates are symmetrical. on top of the gate you have 2 lateral towers and a center one. the center one is really in the center at equal distance from the lateral ones. in your map the center tower is a bit towards the left tower. and this looks strange.
There are many different pictures or renderings of it on the web. I used a different one.

Image

I used different aspects of several images and my own touch. Plus the actual Length to Width of the circus and the map is no where near the same. I have had to make adjustments.


well, in the picture you used the gates are symmetrical while in your map there is clear difference. this kind of asymmetry would have never been accepted in roman architecture. that's why it bugs me.

here's an image to make things clearer:

Image

notice on the photo how the middle tower is right in the middle and the number of arches is the same on each side?

now look at your map. not only the middle tower is not centered but the arches are wrong. you have 4 small arches on the right side and 2 larger ones on the left.

i like that you added the emperor's stand but you should also add the entrance in the lower part. near caligula.


also on the chariots bit. making them bigger would greatly enhance the feel. at the moment they look like fleas. make them bigger and you'll have a nice effect. don't exaggerate with how big you make them though.

the shapes in the middle. the chariots are nice but the rest don't quite fit. where are the dolphins? and what about the symmetry? the have no order, those are just random cubes and cones.


PS: one thing i just noticed. the flags on the emperor's side are waving in the wind while the ones in the bottom part are simple triangles. make those wavy too.
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Postby mibi on Fri May 25, 2007 8:08 pm

WidowMakers wrote:
mibi wrote:WM this maps looks fantastic, you are very talented... how did you make the people?
They are an actual picture of people in a stadium. I them deleted out spaces with different eraser shapes. I added a bevel to the entire crowd to help with the lighting.


well it looks great, the perspective is really well done.
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Postby Wisse on Sat May 26, 2007 1:41 am

WidowMakers wrote:
Wisse wrote:also from the symmetry DIM is talking about the things where the crowd is:
the side in the front looks much higher than the other side
and the one in the front the thin part is to thin
It is called perspective. The point of view of the camera makes the close side look thinner. That is the nature of 3D.

yeah but if you would paint a line from thin part near caligvla you will see that part is much thicker while it is not much distance from eachother
and also if you want to make perspective then you must change the thick part to i guess
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Postby yeti_c on Sat May 26, 2007 1:46 am

WidowMakers wrote:
mibi wrote:WM this maps looks fantastic, you are very talented... how did you make the people?
They are an actual picture of people in a stadium. I them deleted out spaces with different eraser shapes. I added a bevel to the entire crowd to help with the lighting.


Could you change the colouring of the crowd?

Someone else pointed out that they are mostly Red...

Could you have sections of different supporters for each team taking place?

i.e. a red, green, blue, yellow, cyan and pink section?

C.

PS I prefered my Hoardings idea for names but not sure if it would work?
PPS Prefered the bumpier track.
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Postby plysprtz on Sat May 26, 2007 11:54 am

are the arrows still going to be on the track?
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Postby yeti_c on Sat May 26, 2007 1:17 pm

plysprtz wrote:are the arrows still going to be on the track?


They already are.

C>
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