Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:24 am

crazycoders wrote:Bug i think, please confirm:

Fort type: adjacent

Problem: Could not fort from TED to 304. Could only fort from TED to MASTER KOI. Technically, 304, TED and MASTER KOI are all adjacent...


User Error...

304, Ted & Master Koi all border each other fine.

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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby 3mp3r0r on Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:55 am

just finished playing this map in a trips game and i think that there is a problem;

early on i took out all he gang members on the outside. After that if anyone wanted to attack me there then they would have to have gone through at least 12 neutrels before they could attack any of the outside gang members
I think that you should add a tunnel from 1/some of the cells to the outside as there could be a situation where one player only has the only got outside territories which would mean another player would need to go through 12 neutrels just to finish them off. If you added a tunnel from say each of the gang leaders to the outside it would make the game more interesting and this sort of situation wouldnt happen

just a sudgestion :D
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:00 am

Completely disagree with this - that change would completely ruin the Warden bonuses...

Sometimes taking the outside and having that protection is your only choice - and then the warden is your only saviour!

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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby mikersj on Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:13 am

I think there is a bug in the bonuses
I am playing game 3183036 round 6
I have been getting a bonus for gang leader el buro and 3 gang members for the whole game so far.
Then I just took the warden and the bonus for the gang leader went away. I still have the gang leader and gang members. I still get the bonus for 3 new fish, but no bonus on the gang leader and members.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:36 am

mikersj wrote:I think there is a bug in the bonuses
I am playing game 3183036 round 6
I have been getting a bonus for gang leader el buro and 3 gang members for the whole game so far.
Then I just took the warden and the bonus for the gang leader went away. I still have the gang leader and gang members. I still get the bonus for 3 new fish, but no bonus on the gang leader and members.


It's foggy so impossible to tell...

Are you sure you didn't lose a gang member? (There is nothing in the XML to suggest that this would happen.)

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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby blakebowling on Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:20 am

3mp3r0r wrote:just finished playing this map in a trips game and i think that there is a problem;

early on i took out all he gang members on the outside. After that if anyone wanted to attack me there then they would have to have gone through at least 12 neutrals before they could attack any of the outside gang members
I think that you should add a tunnel from 1/some of the cells to the outside as there could be a situation where one player only has the only got outside territories which would mean another player would need to go through 12 neutrals just to finish them off. If you added a tunnel from say each of the gang leaders to the outside it would make the game more interesting and this sort of situation wouldnt happen

just a suggestion :D

Fixed for all of you that don't speak Gibberish

BTW: It's too late to change something like that.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby mikersj on Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:44 am

I relooked at the game log, I have NOT been getting the bonus the whole game. Maybe I don't understand how the bonus works. I guess I need more gang members to get the bonus.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:51 am

mikersj wrote:I relooked at the game log, I have NOT been getting the bonus the whole game. Maybe I don't understand how the bonus works. I guess I need more gang members to get the bonus.


Yeah - the bonus is Gang Leader + 3, 6, 9, 12... gang members.

So when the continent reports as "4 Latin Kings" - then that is El Burro + 3 other gang members.

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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby Incandenza on Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:30 pm

So I have a suggestion to tweak a couple of the neutrals, specifically Guards 005 and 501. Given the importance of gen pop and the yard (especially in 1v1s), I think having 5's in those positions, making a counterattack (or in the case of 005, access to the tower bombardment guards) that much more difficult, is kinda cheeky, since they're working for the defense. How about bumping them down to 2's?

(I suppose an argument could be made that all the cell block guards could be 2's as well, but for the moment, let's concentrate on the two in question)
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby Halmir on Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:11 am

First off love the map, it's got a great amount of complexity that will need a number of play throughs to get the hang of it properly. A couple of thoughts (sorry if they've been raised already, I'm not really gonna go through 55 pages of posts here!):

1) Triad and Aryan not easy to distinguish on first glance. Perhaps different shapes (square instead of circle for one etc) might help?

2) I'm playing game 3160061 where I started the round with 6 aryan brotherhood but the game only counted 4. I had Kaiser, Gregor, Karl in block D and Adolf, Max & Tyler in the yard. Is this a bug?

Great work anyways, enjoying playing it (this may in part be due to me winning on it currently :D) !
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:18 am

Halmir wrote:1) Triad and Aryan not easy to distinguish on first glance. Perhaps different shapes (square instead of circle for one etc) might help?


I agree with this actually - especially on a laptop screen - one thing that helped me - was ensuring to look at the coloured ring round the circles - as that is very different for each one.

Halmir wrote:2) I'm playing game 3160061 where I started the round with 6 aryan brotherhood but the game only counted 4. I had Kaiser, Gregor, Karl in block D and Adolf, Max & Tyler in the yard. Is this a bug?


No:- You had 6 - but you didn't have 7 - the next bonus level is 7.

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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby BENJIKAT IS DEAD on Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:38 pm

Incandenza wrote:So I have a suggestion to tweak a couple of the neutrals, specifically Guards 005 and 501. Given the importance of gen pop and the yard (especially in 1v1s), I think having 5's in those positions, making a counterattack (or in the case of 005, access to the tower bombardment guards) that much more difficult, is kinda cheeky, since they're working for the defense. How about bumping them down to 2's?

(I suppose an argument could be made that all the cell block guards could be 2's as well, but for the moment, let's concentrate on the two in question)


I agree with all of the above - but think that there is also a strong argument for making all the bosses neutral 4 or 5 too.

btw - this map is marvellous in a whole host of different settings - very enjoyable!
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby Incandenza on Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:42 pm

BENJIKAT IS DEAD wrote:I agree with all of the above - but think that there is also a strong argument for making all the bosses neutral 4 or 5 too.


Ah, there's this too, which would make drops considerably more even... One of the things I always liked about Arms Race is that, while my drop may not be great, I know for an absolute fact that my opponent will never start his first turn with more than 3 armies. Obviously that wouldn't be the case with prison riot given the vagaries of new fish, but forcing players to take bosses as opposed to just dropping them (and giving the edge to the guy going first in the case of a split cell) would be worth considering.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby Klaste on Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:37 am

The whole warden area gets you a pretty big bonus, and if you take all the prisoners out front (meaning outside 001), all you gotta do is hold a single point - 005 - for an easy +10 bonus (not including the sheer number of easy territories included within). Also not to mention the bombardment spots.. I'm not arguing against the bonus, I just think maybe it should be a bit harder to hold.

What my point is, I actually think the tunnel idea is a good one, purely because it's going to make whoever takes the warden at least have to guard two points instead of one.


P.S. You guys should make a zombie mall map in this style. Definitely. Nice job!
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby mibi on Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:20 am

Incandenza wrote:So I have a suggestion to tweak a couple of the neutrals, specifically Guards 005 and 501. Given the importance of gen pop and the yard (especially in 1v1s), I think having 5's in those positions, making a counterattack (or in the case of 005, access to the tower bombardment guards) that much more difficult, is kinda cheeky, since they're working for the defense. How about bumping them down to 2's?

(I suppose an argument could be made that all the cell block guards could be 2's as well, but for the moment, let's concentrate on the two in question)


I agree, But gen pop should remain at 3. 005 should go to 2. Also 601 and 602 should go down to 2, maybe 602 down to 1 as I have never seen the hole in play in any game.

Halmir wrote:First off love the map, it's got a great amount of complexity that will need a number of play throughs to get the hang of it properly. A couple of thoughts (sorry if they've been raised already, I'm not really gonna go through 55 pages of posts here!):

1) Triad and Aryan not easy to distinguish on first glance. Perhaps different shapes (square instead of circle for one etc) might help?

2) I'm playing game 3160061 where I started the round with 6 aryan brotherhood but the game only counted 4. I had Kaiser, Gregor, Karl in block D and Adolf, Max & Tyler in the yard. Is this a bug?

Great work anyways, enjoying playing it (this may in part be due to me winning on it currently :D) !


1. They are harder to distinguish do to the red color, though the black outside ring will surely tell them apart. also look at the names, Wilhelm and Big Kiko are in the same cell, which one might be japanese.

Incandenza wrote:
BENJIKAT IS DEAD wrote:I agree with all of the above - but think that there is also a strong argument for making all the bosses neutral 4 or 5 too.


Ah, there's this too, which would make drops considerably more even... One of the things I always liked about Arms Race is that, while my drop may not be great, I know for an absolute fact that my opponent will never start his first turn with more than 3 armies. Obviously that wouldn't be the case with prison riot given the vagaries of new fish, but forcing players to take bosses as opposed to just dropping them (and giving the edge to the guy going first in the case of a split cell) would be worth considering.


yes it's worth considering. but this would essential give the bosses to certain players. if you are in a cell with a neutral boss then its all yours, your blocked in. if you are in a cell with a boss that is another player, you can either take them out, or be taken out your self. I have seen many situations where a starting boss player will try to shank his cell mate, lose control of the shank and then get shanked and killed by the cell mate on the next turn. cell mate rivavly and dominance is what its all about.

Klaste wrote:The whole warden area gets you a pretty big bonus, and if you take all the prisoners out front (meaning outside 001), all you gotta do is hold a single point - 005 - for an easy +10 bonus (not including the sheer number of easy territories included within). Also not to mention the bombardment spots.. I'm not arguing against the bonus, I just think maybe it should be a bit harder to hold.

What my point is, I actually think the tunnel idea is a good one, purely because it's going to make whoever takes the warden at least have to guard two points instead of one.


P.S. You guys should make a zombie mall map in this style. Definitely. Nice job!


yep the warden is a big bonus, and with the gas chamber its even bigger. I have seen players win from the wardens angle many times. I have alsy seen players take over the wardn gas chamber and all those territories, then someone cashes a set, breaks in and takes out the warden leaving the other player stuck in the gas chamber with a -5 bonus and unable to deploy, essentially dead.

the thingh about the warden is that there is alot of neutrals to take over, 16 minium to hold that area, you also have to take out up to 18 armies. there is a lot to focus on, meanwhile, the prison is going grazy and the gangs are uniting. by the time you have the warden area on lockdown, you are going to need all the bonuses you can get to bring the rest of the prison under control.

i tihnk it works.
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