Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby Incandenza on Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:36 pm

I gotta say, the fact that we're still discussing neutrals and bonuses and what not makes it kinda weird that the Beta tag has been removed. Seems like this is a textbook map for extended Beta status, as opposed to, say, charleston, where once it's determined that the XML isn't broken and the bonuses aren't hideously unbalanced, the beta tag should be removed asap.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby waseemalim on Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:06 am

cool +7 it is. Can we reduce the neutral to 3 or 4 for the chamber?

I dont personally like the idea of bumping down the neutrals around the bosses. Ben pointed out somewhere that the beauty of this map is that you have different strategies for different parts of the board -- and I dont think we want a Gen. population type war all over the place.

I dont think the +1 bonus helps much even if you get it in the drop. And +4 is still pretty low probability. I am kind of sleepy or I would have calculated it for you.
Last edited by waseemalim on Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby waseemalim on Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:10 am

badlouie wrote:I absolutely love this map, but after 20+ games on it I have yet to see anyone go into "The Hole".

I haven't encountered a situation where it was worth it for me to secure that area.

So, I have a question- is the Hole ignored in most games, or have I simply been involved in a cluster of games where it simply hasn't come into play?



yea the hole is being ignored. But the updated version is opening a new hole into the hole :lol: .
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby waseemalim on Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:13 am

Incandenza wrote:
I just want to make it a wee bit harder to hold gen pop given that it's the only cell block that can be locked down early in the game, thus giving a huge advantage to whoever comes away with it.



Funny you would say that. In standard games, it comes down to game theory. My record in standard games for this map isnt great, but I have generally won without focusing on the Gen. Pop AT ALL.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby gdeangel on Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:16 am

By far the dominant strategy I've seen is to get control of the gang members outside the front gate (very drop sensitive), and then go for the warden from the back door. The simple way to make this a little more challenging would be to allow the tower guards to bomb not just the yard, but also the "escapees" outside the front gate.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:27 am

gdeangel wrote:By far the dominant strategy I've seen is to get control of the gang members outside the front gate (very drop sensitive), and then go for the warden from the back door. The simple way to make this a little more challenging would be to allow the tower guards to bomb not just the yard, but also the "escapees" outside the front gate.


That wouldn't work - because the tower guards can only be gained from going through the guard at the front - once you've done that you may as well work your way through and get to them normally...

The strategy is good though - if (esp in teams) you can eliminate your enemies out there - then it means you know that the warden is safe - and you can concentrate elsewhere - or go for the warden if you can...

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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby mibi on Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:51 pm

Ok here are my official change requests

1. The weapons in the yards have been changed to 2 neutrals to four to encourage their use as currently they are not worth the risk.
2. There is a door from guard 602 to guard 002. This is to provide a second exit to the warden/guard area. This will also encourage the use of the hole which is almost never used.
3. Guard 601 has been changed to 2 from 3 to encourage hole usage.
4. Guard 602 has been changed to 3 from 4 to encourage hole usage.
5. The Blade in the gen pop has been reduced from 4 to 3 to encourage earlier use.
6. The gas chamber has been changed from 7 to 5 to encourage use.
7. Guard 501 is reduced to 3 to reduce insulation of the gen pop


regarding neutral bosses.

yes it's worth considering. but this would essential give the bosses to certain players. if you are in a cell with a neutral boss then its all yours, your blocked in. if you are in a cell with a boss that is another player, you can either take them out, or be taken out your self. I have seen many situations where a starting boss player will try to shank his cell mate, lose control of the shank and then get shanked and killed by the cell mate on the next turn. cell mate rivavly and dominance is what its all about.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby MadagascarAdam on Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:19 am

OK, I'm not sure where the best place to post this is, or if the creator/manager of the map still reads this. But, I didn't want to post a new thread, so here it is:

I'm currently playing Supermax: Prison Riot! , my first time, and it's Game # 3697798 . I'm also using AJAX BOB.

It looks like it'll be a fun game. I got a really good drop, started with the gang leader and 4 aryan gang members. On my turn, I attacked and won two more aryan gang members. AJAX BOB registered the change in number of overall territories (so I have a higher territory bonus), but for some reason it still says I just have 4 gang members and will only get the smaller bonus, rather than the bigger bonus for having 6 gang members. Is this what will happen on my next turn or is it simply an error in processing for AJAX BOB and doesn't reflect my real bonuses I'll get?

I'd really like to start the game off by maintaining the lead I have and worked for, so if this is some kind of bug or something, PLEASE fix it by my next turn! Thank you!
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby Incandenza on Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:24 am

MadagascarAdam wrote:OK, I'm not sure where the best place to post this is, or if the creator/manager of the map still reads this. But, I didn't want to post a new thread, so here it is:

I'm currently playing Supermax: Prison Riot! , my first time, and it's Game # 3697798 . I'm also using AJAX BOB.


What you're seeing is not a bug, it's how BOB reads continents. For more information, consult the preceding 5 pages worth of posts.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby MadagascarAdam on Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:33 am

Well, the point I was making wasn't that BOB said I had 4 rather than 6 Aryan brotherhood (in general), but that 6 is what the map key says is the turning point for the next bonus - and thus the point at which I'd expect BOB to show my higher bonus and have (6) in parentheses rather than (4).

However, I went back and looked at the map a lot more, looked at what BOB said about the other players, examined the map key more, etc.

And I think I've figured out my problem. The map key says "3 members +1" and "6 members +4" (or something like that), and I was always counting the little red circles with black outlines as having 6 members - and I do. However, I just realized that it means "Gang Leader" PLUS an ADDITIONAL "6 members". And I don't have that. I have 5 members and the gang leader, thus the reason why AJAX doesn't recognize a higher bonus - because I haven't met the requirements yet.

Anyway, I don't know how many other people might've been confused by this, but it may have been just me. Like I said, it's my first time playing this map.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby 3mp3r0r on Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:17 am

mibi wrote:Ok here are my official change requests

1. The weapons in the yards have been changed to 2 neutrals to four to encourage their use as currently they are not worth the risk.
2. There is a door from guard 602 to guard 002. This is to provide a second exit to the warden/guard area. This will also encourage the use of the hole which is almost never used.
3. Guard 601 has been changed to 2 from 3 to encourage hole usage.
4. Guard 602 has been changed to 3 from 4 to encourage hole usage.
5. The Blade in the gen pop has been reduced from 4 to 3 to encourage earlier use.
6. The gas chamber has been changed from 7 to 5 to encourage use.
7. Guard 501 is reduced to 3 to reduce insulation of the gen pop


ive seen a lot of people ask for these and want to know why the map's maker hasnt implemented them?
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:20 am

It's a good point...

Mibi - do you want me to sort the XML out for you?

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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby mibi on Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:41 pm

yeti_c wrote:It's a good point...

Mibi - do you want me to sort the XML out for you?

C.


ys plz.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby EisenFaust on Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:11 pm

I understand that guards 003 and 004 can bombard the yard. What I don't understand is that it looks like they can in turn be can be attacked FROM the yard. And if they can be eliminated from the yard, then the attacker would gain access to the booking and visitors areas without having to go through guard 005. Is this correct?
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby laci_mae on Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:48 pm

EisenFaust wrote:I understand that guards 003 and 004 can bombard the yard. What I don't understand is that it looks like they can in turn be can be attacked FROM the yard. And if they can be eliminated from the yard, then the attacker would gain access to the booking and visitors areas without having to go through guard 005. Is this correct?


003 and 004 are separated from the yard by a wall. The walls on this map are impassable. The arrows indicate bombardment (per the legend). Currently,the only way to access the guard house is through 005.

Incidentally, this is why a door has been proposed between 002 and 602. If/when this door is added it will provide new strategic access to the warden.

Hope this helps,
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby homes32 on Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:31 pm

yeti, are we going to see the XML anytime soon?
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby yeti_c on Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:37 pm

Ya - sorry about that - RL has taken precedence recently - will do this in the new year.

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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby Murda_cap on Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:04 am

I just started playing this map. Ive only played it twice, but I just love it. Awesome job and idea on this one.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby Tennisie on Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:35 pm

Cartographer,

I believe there's a mistake on the Supermax: Prison Riot map. The map instructions say:

Hold the gang leader and... 3 gang members +1

However, in http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=4665429, it seems to require 4 gang members before the +1 bonus is awarded.

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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby MrBenn on Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:18 am

Tennisie wrote:Cartographer,

I believe there's a mistake on the Supermax: Prison Riot map. The map instructions say:

Hold the gang leader and... 3 gang members +1

However, in http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=4665429, it seems to require 4 gang members before the +1 bonus is awarded.

Tennisie

The gang leader is also a gang member.... so in the XML/game log it will says 4 gang members, but one of those 4 members has to be the gang leader; which makes both statements correct.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby Hoots on Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:24 am

Wow... looks like alot of effort went into this map. It is very interesting!

Simple question, please dont take it the wrong way.

Is this map worth playing? :D

I ask because it is very clear that whoever clears gen pop out wins.

Doubles game, play order Green, Yellow, Red, Blue (we are yellow/blue)

R 1 Turn 1, Green (9 bonus) crushes yellow to 6 bonus (completly out of gen pop)
R1 Turn 2, Yellow (6 Bonus) does the most he can against red
R1 Turn 3, Red (11 Bonus) knocks blue down to 1 troop in gen pop
R1 Turn 4, Blue (5 bonus) Doesnt matter...

After 1 round Green/red are looking at 25 bonus (12/13) and we are looking at 11 (6/5) with 1 troop left in gen pop (until yellow clears him on R2, t2)

So, i guess im asking if this is the norm or we just got very unlucky on our first game on this map? id like to take the time to learn it but not if a doubles games is over after R1 more often than not.

Thought or comments?

Thanks
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby mibi on Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:33 am

Hoots wrote:Wow... looks like alot of effort went into this map. It is very interesting!

Simple question, please dont take it the wrong way.

Is this map worth playing? :D

I ask because it is very clear that whoever clears gen pop out wins.

Doubles game, play order Green, Yellow, Red, Blue (we are yellow/blue)

R 1 Turn 1, Green (9 bonus) crushes yellow to 6 bonus (completly out of gen pop)
R1 Turn 2, Yellow (6 Bonus) does the most he can against red
R1 Turn 3, Red (11 Bonus) knocks blue down to 1 troop in gen pop
R1 Turn 4, Blue (5 bonus) Doesnt matter...

After 1 round Green/red are looking at 25 bonus (12/13) and we are looking at 11 (6/5) with 1 troop left in gen pop (until yellow clears him on R2, t2)

So, i guess im asking if this is the norm or we just got very unlucky on our first game on this map? id like to take the time to learn it but not if a doubles games is over after R1 more often than not.

Thought or comments?

Thanks



I have played in quite a few games where people have thought Gen pop was needed in order to win and they battled it out in there, while another player did damage in the other cell blocks or guard area. Bottom line, if a player gets a great drop in Gen Pop and clears it out quckly, there is not much you can do, though remeber, the bonus for all of gen pop isn't that much if they don't have any other gang leaders.

I also proposed a door from gen pop to the guard area but they never got around to updating it.
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby MrBenn on Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:53 am

mibi wrote:Ok here are my official change requests

1. The weapons in the yards have been changed to 2 neutrals to four to encourage their use as currently they are not worth the risk.
2. There is a door from guard 602 to guard 002. This is to provide a second exit to the warden/guard area. This will also encourage the use of the hole which is almost never used.
3. Guard 601 has been changed to 2 from 3 to encourage hole usage.
4. Guard 602 has been changed to 3 from 4 to encourage hole usage.
5. The Blade in the gen pop has been reduced from 4 to 3 to encourage earlier use.
6. The gas chamber has been changed from 7 to 5 to encourage use.
7. Guard 501 is reduced to 3 to reduce insulation of the gen pop


regarding neutral bosses.

yes it's worth considering. but this would essential give the bosses to certain players. if you are in a cell with a neutral boss then its all yours, your blocked in. if you are in a cell with a boss that is another player, you can either take them out, or be taken out your self. I have seen many situations where a starting boss player will try to shank his cell mate, lose control of the shank and then get shanked and killed by the cell mate on the next turn. cell mate rivavly and dominance is what its all about.

mibi wrote:
yeti_c wrote:It's a good point...

Mibi - do you want me to sort the XML out for you?

C.


ys plz.

mibi wrote:I also proposed a door from gen pop to the guard area but they never got around to updating it.

I thought we were waiting for an updated image with the door, and for the updated XML... otherwise there is nothing to update to :?
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby Hoots on Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:35 pm

mibi wrote:
I have played in quite a few games where people have thought Gen pop was needed in order to win and they battled it out in there, while another player did damage in the other cell blocks or guard area. Bottom line, if a player gets a great drop in Gen Pop and clears it out quckly, there is not much you can do, though remeber, the bonus for all of gen pop isn't that much if they don't have any other gang leaders.

I also proposed a door from gen pop to the guard area but they never got around to updating it.


Thanks for the reply Mibi, maybe we just had real bad luck in this one (to be down to 1 single troop in gen pop before blue takes a turn) and need to try a couple more to make judgement.

This game was over at the end of round one where basically green will hold yellow to 3-4 troops and red do the same to blue. Too many neutrals to do anything about it elsewhere and the courtyards will be outnumberd 4 & 5 to 1 with drops from bonuses.

I really hope this was the exception and not the norm. This seems like a very interesting map but you you have to survive past round 1 to be able to use any of the cool features!

I guess all large maps can suffer the same problems from drops and early dice of the first turn. tough thing to program around!
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Re: Supermax: Prison Riot! [Quenched]

Postby mibi on Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:49 pm

Hoots wrote:
mibi wrote:
I have played in quite a few games where people have thought Gen pop was needed in order to win and they battled it out in there, while another player did damage in the other cell blocks or guard area. Bottom line, if a player gets a great drop in Gen Pop and clears it out quckly, there is not much you can do, though remeber, the bonus for all of gen pop isn't that much if they don't have any other gang leaders.

I also proposed a door from gen pop to the guard area but they never got around to updating it.


Thanks for the reply Mibi, maybe we just had real bad luck in this one (to be down to 1 single troop in gen pop before blue takes a turn) and need to try a couple more to make judgement.

This game was over at the end of round one where basically green will hold yellow to 3-4 troops and red do the same to blue. Too many neutrals to do anything about it elsewhere and the courtyards will be outnumberd 4 & 5 to 1 with drops from bonuses.

I really hope this was the exception and not the norm. This seems like a very interesting map but you you have to survive past round 1 to be able to use any of the cool features!

I guess all large maps can suffer the same problems from drops and early dice of the first turn. tough thing to program around!


I currently am in a game 5078356 where I have no armies in the gen pop at all, yet I have the highest bonuses for the first 3 rounds.
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Captain mibi
 
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