[Official] Montreal REVAMP [Quenched]

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Postby DiM on Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:13 am

Teya wrote:
DiM wrote:now the way i see the problem, johloh is the official revamper and wm just butted in. but it's now wm's fault since he talked to andy and got his approval.

If you read what rock solid wrote which WM quoted you will see that this is not the case.

DiM wrote:tricky situation where i think the blame rests on the shoulders of the mods.

You are very quick to blame anything that goes wrong on the mods DiM
but if you read what RS wrote I think you'll find that if anyone is to blame it is Johloh. RS wasnt happy, Johloh never replied.

When it comes down to it, the final say does really come down to rock solid. If he wants WM to continue instead of Johloh Its not really the foundries place to complain. After all, rock solid can pull the pin on the revamp and not let anyone touch it.



wm carried his talks in private without announcing johloh. that's why i think the mods are to blame. it says in that thread johloh is nominated. it says nothing about wm.

that's the problem here. it was done on assumptions. people assumed johloh abandoned the map when in fact he didn't, johloh assumed he is the revamper when in fact wm was also working.

why i blame the mods? simple it's their job to keep the people involved constantly informed of any changes. johloh should have been announced and contacted again after he did not reply to the first request, wm should have been announced as the second revamper or as the substitute revamper. both these things should have been done by the mods and it's clear it's their fault.

they said the thread with the revamps will be updated constantly and anything else that appears without being there is unofficial. then wm comes with this version and it is official. he asked permission and he was granted so he's done nothing wrong. but i think in the spirit of the revamping thread the foundry should have been announced, johloh should have been announced.
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Postby hulmey on Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:26 am

I agree with your there DiM, 100%. Also think that map makers should be limited to how many maps they are allowed to Re-Vamp so everyone has a go.

That said, i prefer WM map 100% more but still needs a little more work
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Postby johloh on Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:56 am

no problem wm...its got nothing to do with you...i love your maps and its not an issue of anything you did.

Im just annoyed at the process. I was announced as the revamper whether it was official or not. I exchanged many emails probably like 10 with rocksolid as well as 4 drafts getting his opinions and implementing them. I even pmed a draft to keyogi showing him how it was going and letting him know that I had started and how it was looking.

I dont see any reason why you werent informed that I was already in the process and why I wasnt informed that you were taking over. I wasted a long time working on that map.

that being said, im not try to get you dumped off the map...and we have no need of a vote. im just being bitter and complaining.
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Postby Kaplowitz on Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:59 am

I thought there was a rule that said that you can only revamp one map....

Either way, i dont think that johloh's time and hardwork should be wasted and that he has many reasons to be annoyed. I also think the widowmaker spent a lot of time on his map, and his should not be wasted either. Cant there just be two seperate threads, so that after both are compeletly FINISHED, we can vote. Obviously changes are going to be made because these maps were just shown to the foundry. Lets wait for the finished versions so that we can vote for the better map.
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Postby johloh on Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:49 am

Cant there just be two seperate threads, so that after both are compeletly FINISHED, we can vote.
no way, that just means EVEN MORE wasted time.

theres nothing to vote, i have no problem with widow doing it now...im just annoyed at how the process worked.
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Postby WidowMakers on Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:56 pm

Sorry everyone for all of the confusion. I will not be doing any other revamps for a while. I want others to feel that they can also do them. Plus, I don't want anyone to think I am trying to hog everyone of them.

Well on to the map.

Here are the new updates with different colored armies. Let me know what ideas you have to improve the maps. Make sure they don't oppose teh rules that RockSolid gave me on page 1.

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Postby RobinJ on Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:19 pm

I'll put it like this: I might actually play the map now :D
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Postby hulmey on Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:23 pm

I think you could do a much better job with the bridges. They look quite out of place and unstylish for this map.

Also it would look good if all the sea/river names were like the fleve in the top right because of them are smalllblurred and unreadable.

Just a few suggestions to keep you going for now :)
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Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:32 pm

It looks like Keyogi and I had a lack of communication regarding the REVAMPS before he left, as REVAMPS have been his 'project' in the Foundry.

When I received a message from WM and Rock saying they have been in contact, I assumed that he was the designated REVAMPER.

My apologies to Johloh and WM, and everyone else for the miscommunication.


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Postby johloh on Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:35 pm

i agree with hulmeys comments and...

-bridges could look better
-the small river text is too small and unreadable...
-id remove rivere des praires, bajo de valois, and rapides or make them more readable somehow.
-im not sure i like the region font too much, but its not terrible, i think it could be more readable
-the impassible mine in the middle (borders mtlnord, stleonard,ahuntsic, and villeray) doesnt look very 'miney' to me. maybe change the graphic for it? make it more brown? something?
-also the graphic of the twin hills (where the cross is) could be better. i know you got the skills widow to make it look like two hills instead of a forest.

also i think the small map is way too big. i know people have been pushing the size limits lately, but the purpose of the small map is to help out people with low resolution monitors. i think making the big one at 820px is no big deal...but the small one at 738px is too big in my opinion. thats practically a 'large map'.
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Postby johloh on Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:39 pm

also...id like to suggest the '+1 to downtown' be directly applied to downtown (with the new xml changes).

if rocksolid approves the change I think it would be a good addition.
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Postby Skittles! on Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:04 am

I'm sorry, but I don't see why a Re-Vamp of Montreal is nessacary. It looks good already, all you basically need to do is fix some pixels up.
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Postby Coleman on Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:25 am

Skittles! wrote:I'm sorry, but I don't see why a Re-Vamp of Montreal is nessacary. It looks good already, all you basically need to do is fix some pixels up.

:shock: You're kidding right?

Although I do think Canada needs a revamp the most out of anyone right now.
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Postby Skittles! on Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:36 am

Coleman wrote:
Skittles! wrote:I'm sorry, but I don't see why a Re-Vamp of Montreal is nessacary. It looks good already, all you basically need to do is fix some pixels up.

:shock: You're kidding right?

Although I do think Canada needs a revamp the most out of anyone right now.

Nope, I'm not kidding. I don't believe that it should have a re-vamp. It's still better than the best map at Landgrab, and so I don't think it needs a re-vamp.
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:00 am

C'est tres jolie!

Looking great. Basically it seems ready for play already! Well done.
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Postby WidowMakers on Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:10 am

johloh wrote:i agree with hulmeys comments and...

-bridges could look better
-the small river text is too small and unreadable...
-id remove rivere des praires, bajo de valois, and rapides or make them more readable somehow.
-im not sure i like the region font too much, but its not terrible, i think it could be more readable
-the impassible mine in the middle (borders mtlnord, stleonard,ahuntsic, and villeray) doesnt look very 'miney' to me. maybe change the graphic for it? make it more brown? something?
-also the graphic of the twin hills (where the cross is) could be better. i know you got the skills widow to make it look like two hills instead of a forest.

also i think the small map is way too big. i know people have been pushing the size limits lately, but the purpose of the small map is to help out people with low resolution monitors. i think making the big one at 820px is no big deal...but the small one at 738px is too big in my opinion. thats practically a 'large map'.
Ok those are great suggestions. I will not be able to update anything till after the weekend. Monday or Tuesday I will have an update with the suggestions above and any other ones that come by then.

Plus RockSolid noticed I have put an island in Valois Bay. He said that the island does not exist. It was on the map I used to make the borders but it is not on Google Earth. I will be removing that as well.
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Postby yeti_c on Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:55 am

johloh wrote:also...id like to suggest the '+1 to downtown' be directly applied to downtown (with the new xml changes).

if rocksolid approves the change I think it would be a good addition.


I like this idea.

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Postby WidowMakers on Sat Jun 23, 2007 9:37 am

yeti_c wrote:
johloh wrote:also...id like to suggest the '+1 to downtown' be directly applied to downtown (with the new xml changes).

if rocksolid approves the change I think it would be a good addition.


I like this idea.

C.
RockSolid has nothing to do with the changes of the actual XML code. As long as the Bonuses are the same, he does not mind.

In regards to the channging of the 3 4-way borders in the original map, does anyone have any issue with how RockSolid and I decided to change them?
They are listed in the first post. 4-ways have been a "no no" in the foundry since I have been here. These would be the only changes to the XML other than coordinates and the new downtown bonus setup.
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Postby MR. Nate on Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:42 pm

I think Johloh was talking about the +1 for downtown being applied to the downtown, instead of just being given to the holder. The reason that I think rocksolid would have to approve it because that would change gameplay.

As for the borders, I don't think that the gameplay is going to be significantly changed by the border changes, but in the interest of keeping it as close to the original as possible, is there any way you could institute something impassable right on the corner. In Keyogi's revamp of the middle east, Luxor, Eastern Desert, Darfur and East Nubia used to have 4 way corners, now there's a small lake there. It breaks up and defines the corners without changing the gameplay one iota. I've never been to Montreal, but are there statues, or famous buildings, or even walls in any of those areas that could be inserted to keep the original borders?

That being said, I think the map is beautiful. I will certainly be playing in Montreal more when it's finished.
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Postby d.gishman on Sun Jun 24, 2007 10:50 pm

great looking map, but the park in the middle with the cross disturbs me in some way... looks out of place or something
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Postby hulmey on Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:46 pm

.....i agree about d park
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Postby Unit_2 on Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:21 am

i think you should try to add-in the yellow islands.
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Postby Spiegelprime on Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:44 pm

I like the park, and the Cross...it's a true Montreal landmark. It looks sort of out of place in reality :-P
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Postby d.gishman on Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:48 pm

What i meant was not the park itself (I know that park in real life), but i meant the texture that the artist put on the park - it has like, ripples and bends and looks weird
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Postby WidowMakers on Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:06 pm

Here are the updates
*The hills with the cross look more like hills now.
*I made suspension bridges for all of the bridges. I know they are not suspension bridges everywhere but if I don't then the raods I had before are more accurate. I personally like the previous version with roads becasue it is less busy
*The small water text has been removed
*I made the larger water text italics like t he wording under the title
*I changed the territory font to regular instead of italics.
*And made the small version SMALL :D

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