The Puget Sound [Quenched]

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Postby Xyl on Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:32 am

Thanks for doing this map, I was hoping someone would get to it. :) My suggestions, and the reasons for each one.

Number of territories - I think it would be better to end up with 42 territories, the size of the standard map. 36 is a very bad number for 1v1 games; both players start with 12 territories, so the first player gets 4 armies, but the second player probably doesn't.

Tumwater - maybe split it in half east-west; a continent with only two territories is too easy to randomly start the game with.

Matlock - split it in half north-south; it's too long and skinny.

Olympic National Park - definitely needs splitting. Same reason as Tumwater, plus both existing territories are border territories; a 1 army bonus for the continent isn't enough to be worth taking it, and a 2 army bonus is too swingy if someone randomly starts with the whole continent.

Tahuya, Allyn, Sunny Slope, Bangor - you have a four-way corner here. Move the borders to eliminate it, or add a geographic feature to justify it.

Edmonds, Shoreline, Sky Valley, 203 - ditto.

Seattle to Bremerton ferry - I know that's accurate, but boy is it ugly. Suggestion: How about having certain territories (maybe Seattle, Bremerton, Port Townsend, Edmonds, and Whidbey and Vashon Islands) be marked as ferry terminals, and all ferries border all other ferries? That would give this map an interesting gameplay feature rather than just different geography.

The rivers - it's just a graphical thing, but the fact that these don't go all the way to the sound is really weird. How about using bridges instead?
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Postby melkor on Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:04 am

i wouldn't say it is ugly. i think it looks fine and remember this is just a rough draft
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Postby edbeard on Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:09 am

you have quite a good start but it still needs a lot of work.

most of what I'm saying has probably been mentioned but it doesn't hurt to hear it twice.


I think having the title in the middle is a mistake. It should stand out more than it does right now. Also, maybe put a small signature on the map somewhere. These are minor issues but still need to be addressed at some point.

The water routes don't work. It doesn't flow with everything else you have going. It clashes with the feel you have going so far. The ones on the north part look like weird red headphones.

Personally I don't like two territory continents. Almost every game someone will start with it. And, you have two of them. I've learned that I'm not fond of three territory continents either but, that would probably help here.

I'd prefer one font throughout. But it might work how you have it currently. One exception is the multi-coloured territory names. The ones that are both black and white. Probably use black font with a glow around it so you can read it anywhere on the map.

I like the thinner borders and water btw but not all of your borders connect so double check that. And, I still think you could do better with the water. Right now it just seems like another part of the landmass instead of water.

The 4 way border. Right side in the middle. Either put an impassable in the middle of it or just move one of the lines over so it's not a 4 way.

I noticed you have quite a few straight lines. Are these separations copied from reality? I'm not familiar with the area so it just seems weird.

What is that thing in the bottom right? It doesn't seem to fit in the map (stylewise) at all.
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Postby happy2seeyou on Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:10 am

Yea Tisha!!! Way to go! Nice start. I look forward to see how it progresses!
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Postby Tisha on Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:16 pm

Image

now 42 territories

also got rid of the four way borders

i would like the ferry routes and the borders of the counties to remain...i would like to keep the map true to the area.

i also adjusted the opacity on MT. RAINIER on the lover right hand corner.

the font...i have used the same font throughout the whole map. i have been working with the font for a while, and it doesn't seem to bother my eyes..like some say..

i still need help with bridges..
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Postby eyeofdeath on Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:31 pm

wicked wrote: Can you put a star for my house? And yours!
:lol:


I think that needs to be done. I've been challenged by wicked that i won't be able to find her house off of just the star.

I like the way the maps going though.

and one more thing...
Xyl wrote:it's too long and skinny.



Thats what she said.
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puget sound map

Postby Risky_Stud on Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:38 pm

OMG, THIS MAP LOOKS TOTALLY AWESOME. I'M REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO PLAYING. THEY HAVE GET THIS MAP APROVED FOR PLAY ASAFP.
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Postby Xyl on Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:40 am

Ferry routes - Still ugly. I know you want to keep the map true to reality, but come on, when you need to move an army surely you can hijack the ferries and make them go to a terminal off the normal route. :P

Silverdale, Bremerton, Allyn - I'm a bit concerned there won't be room for army circles on these, especially on the small map.
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Postby Tisha on Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:40 pm

Xyl wrote:Ferry routes - Still ugly. I know you want to keep the map true to reality, but come on, when you need to move an army surely you can hijack the ferries and make them go to a terminal off the normal route. :P

Silverdale, Bremerton, Allyn - I'm a bit concerned there won't be room for army circles on these, especially on the small map.


so even if there were different lines for ferry routes, you still wouldn't be pleased? on the first page i have posted an undated map, and the army circles do fin fine on the larger map, as for the smaller map...there are alot of maps with smaller territories then mine on them...and they manage to squeeze army circles on

Edit: so i have this little ferry(for the terminals)...and adding it to Bremerton really crowds it out
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Postby Xyl on Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:55 am

I think that allowing any ferry terminal to attack any other ferry terminal will be less cluttered visually, be easier to understand, make for better gameplay, and distinguish the map from all the other maps based on real locations. But that is just my opinion. If you want to keep the ferries on fixed lines, I recommend removing the Seattle-Bremerton line. I know it really exists, but it has to do a weird curve to fit on the map, and I think it will confuse people more than it adds to the gameplay.

You're right, you can probably squeeze the army circles on the small map, but I think you'll have to use a smaller font for the labels.
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Postby wicked on Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:50 am

How about making the ferry lines dashed so they'd be less instrusive? I dont' like the idea of all ferry terminals attacking all ferry terminals though, as that's not realistic, besides we already have that on other maps.

Also you can't tell the shape of Mt. Rainier. Why is the box there, is it going to be a "country"? Can you make the mountain more 3D-like if it's a country?

You might want to show bridges/connections over the rivers in the south there too.
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Postby Xyl on Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:40 pm

Straight dashed lines might work. I looked at the official ferry map (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/ferries/images/maps/route-map-overview.gif) and they solve the funny curve problem by changing the geography. :lol:
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Postby Tisha on Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:21 pm

wicked wrote:How about making the ferry lines dashed so they'd be less instrusive? I dont' like the idea of all ferry terminals attacking all ferry terminals though, as that's not realistic, besides we already have that on other maps.

Also you can't tell the shape of Mt. Rainier. Why is the box there, is it going to be a "country"? Can you make the mountain more 3D-like if it's a country?

You might want to show bridges/connections over the rivers in the south there too.


i can figure out how to do dashed line instead of solid..

Mt. Rainier is a territory, and i had it bolder, but someone didn't like it so i had changed the opacity to 75%

and i do want bridges over some areas, i just need someone to give me some ideas, or someone to show me how.
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Postby wicked on Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:35 pm

ok then, how about making the border actually border the pic of Mt Rainier? Right now they look like 2 separate entities. And I don't think the opacity is the problem, rather the pic. I'll see what I can find...
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Postby Tisha on Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:40 pm

wicked wrote:ok then, how about making the border actually border the pic of Mt Rainier? Right now they look like 2 separate entities. And I don't think the opacity is the problem, rather the pic. I'll see what I can find...


I have the Mt. Rainier territory that shape because that is the shape of Mt. Rainier National Park... That picture i have is an actually picture of Mt. Rainier..

How do the ferry lines look all dashed out?
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Postby wicked on Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:01 pm

I like the dashed better. How would one less on the bolding of them look? Also, would it look better to make bremerton extend further east, so cutting off the bottom of silverdale and a little more of the tip of port orchard. The bigger Brem. country would then be easier to stick a number on as well. :wink:

Also, all the islands in the south might be confusing since they're not separate countries.

I still don't tell Mt Rainier is a mountain... can't make out that pic. Is it going to be part of a continent or by itself? Maybe make a +1 bonus for holding Mt Rainer and the Space Needle or something like that?
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Postby vchef69 on Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:22 pm

I don't want to sound like a whining Canadian but where is The coast Of B. C. ? Is it not part of the Sound ? Vchef69
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Postby Xyl on Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:17 pm

Ah, I like these ferry routes much better. :)
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Postby Tisha on Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:12 am

wicked wrote:I like the dashed better. How would one less on the bolding of them look? Also, would it look better to make bremerton extend further east, so cutting off the bottom of silverdale and a little more of the tip of port orchard. The bigger Brem. country would then be easier to stick a number on as well. :wink:


I brought Port Orchard down a bit more, and brought Silverdale and Bainbridge Island up a bit. bringing Bremerton out more..

Do u think I should totally erase the extra islands in the south?
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Postby Tisha on Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:13 am

Xyl wrote:Ah, I like these ferry routes much better. :)


thank you.. :lol:
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Postby wicked on Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:04 am

cool. that looks good! although the Vashon Is. ferry route looks the same old width. I'd get rid of the isles, maybe make gig a bit bigger to use of some of the space?
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Postby edbeard on Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:27 am

I really hate the ferry routes. They are worse than before. The blue underneath the red with the gaps looks very strange. Especially so in the middle of the map with the darker blue. You should change the style of them. At the least a new colour is needed. Red is not a good choice. Try white, grey or black. But, honestly try out a new style. To put it very lightly, they are distracting to the eye. That's something you don't want.

I'm not sure why there's a killer whale there. I'm assuming they're native to the area, but still you don't want something popping out at you like that. I'd get rid of it altogether, but at the least move it away from the land a bit and reduce the opacity (make it more transparent). Just remove it. It doesn't add anything to the map.

The mountain in the lower right. Why is there a box? Is it really important to the area to have it as a territory? It just seems weird that it's the only mountain there. Is that geographically correct, or are you just placing this one in there? Right now when people see it they won't know if it's part of a continent or not. That's a problem.

I still don't understand why you have 2 different coloured fonts. I don't think you'd even be able to convince me that different continents need either black or white, but some continents have both white and black font. It makes the map look very odd. I'd pick one (black or white) and find out which looks best on everything. Or, play around with it a bit. Try out different styled fonts, with both colours. Maybe add a glow or a shadow to them.

The title being in the middle. I don't think it'll work there. Again it just quite odd. I don't think a title needs to be fancy schmancy, but when you put it in the middle there, you force it to be simple and blend in and I don't think that's good. It should stand out as the title, but not distract from the map. Put it at the top so people see it and say, "Ok this map is called Puget Sound" and then they look at the map. I just think the title and legend should be out of the way of the map itself and not in the middle of everything else.
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Postby melkor on Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:09 pm

what? the ferry routes look great and i think the killer whale is awesome, so is mt rainier.....if you dont like it then pretend you dont see it
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Postby wicked on Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:15 pm

ed doesn't seem to like variety. :wink: I like the whale, it doesn't distract from the map at all. And I think the problem with Mt Rainier is you're trying to put a 3D image onto a 2D map. I still can't make out where the peak even is... it just looks like a blob. maybe make it more cartooney? or appear 3D like King of the Mountains? Not sure what'll work until I see it, so not very helpful I know... lol.
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Postby Tisha on Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:21 pm

edbeard wrote:I really hate the ferry routes. They are worse than before. The blue underneath the red with the gaps looks very strange. Especially so in the middle of the map with the darker blue. You should change the style of them. At the least a new colour is needed. Red is not a good choice. Try white, grey or black. But, honestly try out a new style. To put it very lightly, they are distracting to the eye. That's something you don't want.

I'm not sure why there's a killer whale there. I'm assuming they're native to the area, but still you don't want something popping out at you like that. I'd get rid of it altogether, but at the least move it away from the land a bit and reduce the opacity (make it more transparent). Just remove it. It doesn't add anything to the map.

The mountain in the lower right. Why is there a box? Is it really important to the area to have it as a territory? It just seems weird that it's the only mountain there. Is that geographically correct, or are you just placing this one in there? Right now when people see it they won't know if it's part of a continent or not. That's a problem.

I still don't understand why you have 2 different coloured fonts. I don't think you'd even be able to convince me that different continents need either black or white, but some continents have both white and black font. It makes the map look very odd. I'd pick one (black or white) and find out which looks best on everything. Or, play around with it a bit. Try out different styled fonts, with both colours. Maybe add a glow or a shadow to them.

The title being in the middle. I don't think it'll work there. Again it just quite odd. I don't think a title needs to be fancy schmancy, but when you put it in the middle there, you force it to be simple and blend in and I don't think that's good. It should stand out as the title, but not distract from the map. Put it at the top so people see it and say, "Ok this map is called Puget Sound" and then they look at the map. I just think the title and legend should be out of the way of the map itself and not in the middle of everything else.


The ferry routes look worse white. As for the style, what is there really besides solid and dashed? and the middle of the map wasn't a darker blue, the water was lighter in the center.

I like the killer whale, they are native to the area. and I should just remove it because you think it doesn't add anything to the map?

The mountain in the corner is geographically correct, it is actually there....not just something I placed..

And where would u suggest I put the title of the map? at the top you say? Because I'm not seeing any room up there...
Last edited by Tisha on Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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