Rail Europe [Quenched]

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Postby cairnswk on Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:06 pm

gimil wrote:cairns you didn't have to shout :cry:

I tried my best to keep up with your map :(


gimil...i know you tried your best...but i also expect you to go back a little ways and read some of what is being written to keep up, and a couple of times this question was ask, and you proceeded to ask it again. One does lose some patience you know! :cry:

However, onwards and upwards.! :)
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Postby cairnswk on Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:08 pm

Kaplowitz wrote:
lol, reading! :roll: who the hell does that?!


my point exactly kaplowitz!
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Postby cairnswk on Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:14 pm

onbekende wrote:I changed the stuff about the bonusses where it needed to be changed

Thanks for doing that.

Brabant Express:
4 terr, 3 def, 9 cont => Bonus of 4, make it 4, more then enough for a 4 terr continent with 3 to defend stations. (1.0)
change name to "Benelux Express" (1.1)

Done

Baltic Express:
3 terr, 3 def, 5 cont => Bonus of 3, thus good
Station "SPG", its name in't bolded as everyone elses. (2.0)
Done

Nord Express:
5 terr, 4 def, 10 cont => Bonus of 5, thus good
Station "KLG", its top with clock is different from the other 1 station, 1 line stations, as in you keep the arc in gray and here not (3.0)

Done

Vilnius Express:
3 terr, 2 def, 4 cont => Bonus of 3, but I like your 2, more appropiate, thus fine
Station "VIL" has the same as adressed in 3.0, look at "MIN" next to it how I mean I like it (4.0)

Done

British Rail:
4 terr, 1 def, 2 cont => Bonus of 2, thus good
I can't but wonder that "GLW" station is wider in size then "EDB" or is it my eyes?

GLW is same width as EDB...done.

Trentitalia:
5 terr, 3 def, 2 cont => Bonus of 3, but I agree with 2, thus fine
station "CBA" and "BSI" don't have that nifty color in there top as the rest of the 1 station, 1 line stations (5.0)
the name of "FLN" is slighty off to the left (5.1)

Done

Orient Exp 1919:
7 terr, 6 def, 8 cont => Bonus of 7, I say 7 is more then fine for that railway (6.0)

Done

Sim Orient Exp 1921:
9 terr, 9 def, 13 cont => Bonus of 10, I say atleast a bonus of 9 (7.0)

Done

Ven-Sim Orient Exp:

6 terr, 6 def, 8 cont => Bonus of 7, I agree, this will be a fought over railway[/quote]
Done

Train Grande Vitesse:
4 terr, 4 def, 9 cont => Bonus of 5 but I say make it a bonus of 3! yes 3, explaination is at the bottom of post (8.0)
I'll meet you halfway and make it bonus of four.

Rail Iberia:
7 terr, 2 def, 1 cont => Bonus of 3, seems failrly nice
Done

EuroCity 174-175:
terr 7, def 6, cont 7 => Bonus of 7, I say a bonus of 6 shall be sufficient for it (9.0)
"PRG" station, you switch colors between the color behind the name and on the sides. (9.1)

Done

Scandanavian Rail:
7 terr, 2 def, 3 cont => Bonus of 3, but I agree on the 2
"HAM" station doesn't has the color of Scandanavian Rail behinds its name (10.0)

Done

Trans Europe Exp:
7 terr, 6 def, 10 cont => Bonus of 7, thus good
Good

Ukraine Express:
6 terr, 3 def, 5 cont => Bonus of 4, make it 4, seeing you only need to defend 3 stations anyway. (11.0)
Good

Iceberg Express:
5 terr, 5 def, 8 cont => Bonus of 6, thus good
Why on earth is it called "Iceberg Express"? it links London (LON) - Brussels (BRU) - Keulen (KLN) - Luzern? (LUS) - Paris (PAR), thus why not calling it the Thalys or if a more wider term, HST as in "High Speed Trains" which run between those city's

I got it out one of the schedules, but can't find it again now. It also goes up to the Alps but there is not enough room to put that alps terr in for Switzerland. LUS is Lausanne in France. WE can look at that one again later.

(8.0): if you hold the TGV's Paris station and NCE station, you have both TGV + Rail Iberia, thus don't overgo on the bonus of those 2, hends I wish TGV = 3

I'd still like to stick with 4 for TGV, as Nice is part of the TGV. And i think you will have a hard time keepoing those continents if you manage to get them.

Thanks for the preview and all the fixes. :) Fixes made in the version 6 below

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Postby cairnswk on Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:17 pm

unriggable wrote:Why does turkey overlap the legend when there are no stations there?


Having no stations there is irrelevant unriggable.
This is simply a art-design feature that i have included for this map, and provides a good placeholder for my sig, :)
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Postby onbekende on Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:51 pm

now a more stupid idea but heck, why not

you got those nifty clocks there now, why not use them?

Image

LIS-LON-BMH-EDB-GLW set to 3 o clock (already)
rest to 4 o clock
HSL-KLG-VIL-MIN-LVV-KEV-ODS-BUC-SOF-ISL-ATH set to 5 o clock
SPG-MOW set to 6 o clock

althout this may be relevant, you can make the biggest bunch 3 o clock (unchainging) and adjust accordingly
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Postby casper on Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:28 am

Personally I think there are too many clocks. Kind of distracting. Maybe put clocks on only major stations just like you did with the USA Rail map (which needs to be quenched!). Again, another great map shaping up here.
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Postby cairnswk on Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:40 am

onbekende wrote:now a more stupid idea but heck, why not

you got those nifty clocks there now, why not use them?

Image

LIS-LON-BMH-EDB-GLW set to 3 o clock (already)
rest to 4 o clock
HSL-KLG-VIL-MIN-LVV-KEV-ODS-BUC-SOF-ISL-ATH set to 5 o clock
SPG-MOW set to 6 o clock

althout this may be relevant, you can make the biggest bunch 3 o clock (unchainging) and adjust accordingly


Thanks for the suggestion onbekende.
I am going to see if i can put the timetables up on the clocks to some degree.....later
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Postby cairnswk on Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:42 am

casper wrote:Personally I think there are too many clocks. Kind of distracting. Maybe put clocks on only major stations just like you did with the USA Rail map (which needs to be quenched!). Again, another great map shaping up here.

Thanks for the great maps comment casper.

Do you think that also...i looked at that this morning and thought there was a lot of clocks.

I'd prefer this map to have some differences from the USA RAIL....what do others think....are there too many clocks, and if so, should they only go on terminals with more that one station?
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Postby Gnome on Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:49 am

the clocks don't really bother me...maybe you can make them a little transparent...But for me you don't have to take them away, and I like the idea of the timetable...Some will never notice this detail but others will tell you that your a great mapper with an eye for detail :wink:
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Postby cairnswk on Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:02 am

Gnome wrote:the clocks don't really bother me...maybe you can make them a little transparent...But for me you don't have to take them away, and I like the idea of the timetable...Some will never notice this detail but others will tell you that your a great mapper with an eye for detail :wink:
OK...i'll see what happens....thanks gnome
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Postby cairnswk on Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:53 pm

Moving on...the terts around Brussels, Luasanne and Köln are very cramped.

I want to place another two stations on the Glacier Express (stupid me...i've got the Iceberg Express) for probably Chur and St Moritz, and I think these are really important both in terms of the inclusion of Switzerland, and stations in the Alps.

In order to achieve this, the three big stations might have to be moved to the left side of the map, and token icons place on the main map.
Paris will have to move slightly up or down, and the text about gaemplay will probably have to move down to the Med Sea above the legend.

Does anyone have any objection to this occuring?
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Postby cairnswk on Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:56 pm

Gnome wrote:the clocks don't really bother me...maybe you can make them a little transparent...But for me you don't have to take them away, and I like the idea of the timetable...Some will never notice this detail but others will tell you that your a great mapper with an eye for detail :wink:


Gnome....your signature is oversize....qwert might see that LOL...size restrictions apply also here 150h x 600w.
Sorry, but just getting in before you get trounced on...
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Postby Gnome on Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:32 pm

cairnswk wrote:
Gnome wrote:the clocks don't really bother me...maybe you can make them a little transparent...But for me you don't have to take them away, and I like the idea of the timetable...Some will never notice this detail but others will tell you that your a great mapper with an eye for detail :wink:


Gnome....your signature is oversize....qwert might see that LOL...size restrictions apply also here 150h x 600w.
Sorry, but just getting in before you get trounced on...


lol thx didn't know that :wink:

oh and besides, I got my inspiration from you, hope you don't mind :wink:
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Re: RAIL EUROPE V6 - Station/Map Design? P5

Postby unriggable on Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:05 pm

cairnswk wrote:Current Version
Image


Let's see...

Bolden the lines to make it easier to see (especially in the small version)
Fix Athens and IRN (wtf) to resemble the stacked look of other multistations.
Fix the tip so that it doesn't say "four way stations" but instead intersecting stations so it doesn't rule out places like paris.
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Postby edbeard on Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:15 pm

There are 6 terminals with 2 stations that are stacked and 4 that are side by side. For the most part I think they're setup for spacing reasons and occasionally it seems to help the eye separate where the territories are. Though I suppose if it's easy to stack them all maybe it would be better?

One thing you should do is add the yellow line from ATH to SOF


As cairns has said quite a few times, the lines are being replaced by rail once the setup is finalized so widow only has to do it once.

The Paris note is above the Paris station
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Postby cairnswk on Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:49 am

V6 Large

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V7 Small and Large Updates

Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:19 am

V7 Updates

* Four-way station text changed to "intersecting"
* Brussels and Luasanne terminals moved, and Milan station moved to Zagreb to make room for Munich and Frankfurt.
* The GLacier Express changed to INtercity Express LON-BRU-KLN-FNK-MUN-LUS-PAR-BRU. Bonuses need re-doing for that train.

V7 Small

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V7 Large
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Postby WidowMakers on Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:19 am

Ok I have a question. How is the gameplay on this map different from Rail USA?

Rail Europe text:
*At Paris all stations border each other
*At terminals with more than one station, attack can only be a bordering station
*At four-way stations, all territories border each other
*External to terminals, attack can only be made along the route lines.

Rail USA text:
Station names are:
*3 letter station name
*3 first letters of the rail line

*Stations can only attack adjacent stations along their rail line except
*Stations in teh same city can attack each other.
*All Chicago stations border each other.


So based on this text
1) The only difference I see in gameplay between the two is that the stations in Rail Europe for MOW and WAW can't all attack each other. Based on everything else written, it would play the same as Rail USA.

So why not (to keep things similar and less confusing for the player when both of these maps are out) Use the same text for both maps.

It would keep the understanding of the maps the same and players would be less confused with two types of text and one map that has only two cities that have stations that can't attack each other (MOW and WAW)

2) On rail USA cairns, you told me not to use the word terminal because it meant the end of a line. That being said then, I would recommend to remove it from Rail Europe. Again another area that I feel would be better in the maps were consistent with text.

I suggest this be the text used for Rail Europe:
*All Paris stations border each other.

Station names are:
*3 letter station name
*3 first letters of the rail line

*Stations can only attack adjacent stations along their rail line except
*Stations in the same city can attack each other.


It is easier to read and maintains consistency across the maps. The only thing lost is the limited attack form the vertically oriented Rail Europe Stations (WAW and MOW) And I don't feel that is a big enough gameplay mechanic to warrant an entirely new text system between the two maps.

PLUS: When are you gonna get rid of the skinny attack lines. They look bad. Why aren't you using railroad tracks like on Rail USA. I think they look much better.
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Postby WidowMakers on Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:23 am

Sorry I should have added this to the previous post.

In Rail USA the Stations were the same size in the large and the small map. I see here that they are larger in the large map. Is that for any reason?

Just want to make sure you scaled them up properly so the numbers would fit.

Plus if you decided to use the smaller size on the big map, I feel it would make that map look better, because it would feel less cramped and would have more room to let the tracks move around the map.
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Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:36 am

WidowMakers wrote:Ok I have a question. How is the gameplay on this map different from Rail USA?

Rail Europe text:
*At Paris all stations border each other
*At terminals with more than one station, attack can only be a bordering station
*At four-way stations, all territories border each other
*External to terminals, attack can only be made along the route lines.

Rail USA text:
Station names are:
*3 letter station name
*3 first letters of the rail line

*Stations can only attack adjacent stations along their rail line except
*Stations in teh same city can attack each other.
*All Chicago stations border each other.


So based on this text
1) The only difference I see in gameplay between the two is that the stations in Rail Europe for MOW and WAW can't all attack each other. Based on everything else written, it would play the same as Rail USA.


Thanks WM for the comments.

Yes WAW and MOW stations can't all attak each other.
NO it is not going to play the same as RAIL USA.
In RAIL USA the routes are very linear.
IN Europe there is a mixture of linear routes and regional routes as for Italy, Iberia, GB and Scandanavia mixed with those other linear routes.
This will make play very different indeed.

So why not (to keep things similar and less confusing for the player when both of these maps are out) Use the same text for both maps.

I might consider that although I would prefer to have somethings different.

It would keep the understanding of the maps the same and players would be less confused with two types of text and one map that has only two cities that have stations that can't attack each other (MOW and WAW)

2) On rail USA cairns, you told me not to use the word terminal because it meant the end of a line. That being said then, I would recommend to remove it from Rail Europe. Again another area that I feel would be better in the maps were consistent with text.

I suggest this be the text used for Rail Europe:
*All Paris stations border each other.

Station names are:
*3 letter station name
*3 first letters of the rail line

*Stations can only attack adjacent stations along their rail line except
*Stations in the same city can attack each other.


It is easier to read and maintains consistency across the maps. The only thing lost is the limited attack form the vertically oriented Rail Europe Stations (WAW and MOW) And I don't feel that is a big enough gameplay mechanic to warrant an entirely new text system between the two maps.

Good considerations.

PLUS: When are you gonna get rid of the skinny attack lines. They look bad. Why aren't you using railroad tracks like on Rail USA. I think they look much better.

When i let you know it's time to do rail lines thanks...LOL...luv the humour :)
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Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:40 am

WidowMakers wrote:Sorry I should have added this to the previous post.

In Rail USA the Stations were the same size in the large and the small map. I see here that they are larger in the large map. Is that for any reason?


No simply that i haven't got to scaling the stations up or down yet.

Just want to make sure you scaled them up properly so the numbers would fit.

Plus if you decided to use the smaller size on the big map, I feel it would make that map look better, because it would feel less cramped and would have more room to let the tracks move around the map.


Yes the stations on the small map are 22px wide, and i'll prob make the stations on the large map 24px wide. At present they're about 28 px wide.
Last edited by cairnswk on Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby WidowMakers on Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:40 am

cairnswk wrote:Thanks WM for the comments.

Yes WAW and MOW stations can't all attak each other.
NO it is not going to play the same as RAIL USA.
In RAIL USA the routes are very linear.
IN Europe there is a mixture of linear routes and regional routes as for Italy, Iberia, GB and Scandanavia mixed with those other linear routes.
This will make play very different indeed.
I agree the new rail route configurations will make the map play different. I just meant that having different "directions" between two Rail maps might be confusing thats all.

Looking good.
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Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:44 am

WidowMakers wrote:
cairnswk wrote:Thanks WM for the comments.

Yes WAW and MOW stations can't all attak each other.
NO it is not going to play the same as RAIL USA.
In RAIL USA the routes are very linear.
IN Europe there is a mixture of linear routes and regional routes as for Italy, Iberia, GB and Scandanavia mixed with those other linear routes.
This will make play very different indeed.
I agree the new rail route configurations will make the map play different. I just meant that having different "directions" between two Rail maps might be confusing thats all.

Looking good.


Mmmm.....a possibility, but i think we went way outside the standard template with Rail USA and everyone seemed to latch onto that quickly, i imagine that bringing it back to a mixture of the two might be pleasing to many.

Thanks for 'looking good"..appreciated WM. :) It still feels a little messy, but i think that is because it has different mix of station types (which I think is very representative of Europe); plus THERE ARE NO RAIL LINES YET. :wink:
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Postby onbekende on Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:52 am

InterCity Express with Bonus of 6 is good, wouldn't do 7
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Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:57 am

onbekende wrote:InterCity Express with Bonus of 6 is good, wouldn't do 7

Done...onbekende...changed on V7 soon...please refresh your browser.
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