Rail Europe [Quenched]

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Postby cairnswk on Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:49 am

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V7 Small and Large Updates

Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:19 am

V7 Updates

* Four-way station text changed to "intersecting"
* Brussels and Luasanne terminals moved, and Milan station moved to Zagreb to make room for Munich and Frankfurt.
* The GLacier Express changed to INtercity Express LON-BRU-KLN-FNK-MUN-LUS-PAR-BRU. Bonuses need re-doing for that train.

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Postby WidowMakers on Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:19 am

Ok I have a question. How is the gameplay on this map different from Rail USA?

Rail Europe text:
*At Paris all stations border each other
*At terminals with more than one station, attack can only be a bordering station
*At four-way stations, all territories border each other
*External to terminals, attack can only be made along the route lines.

Rail USA text:
Station names are:
*3 letter station name
*3 first letters of the rail line

*Stations can only attack adjacent stations along their rail line except
*Stations in teh same city can attack each other.
*All Chicago stations border each other.


So based on this text
1) The only difference I see in gameplay between the two is that the stations in Rail Europe for MOW and WAW can't all attack each other. Based on everything else written, it would play the same as Rail USA.

So why not (to keep things similar and less confusing for the player when both of these maps are out) Use the same text for both maps.

It would keep the understanding of the maps the same and players would be less confused with two types of text and one map that has only two cities that have stations that can't attack each other (MOW and WAW)

2) On rail USA cairns, you told me not to use the word terminal because it meant the end of a line. That being said then, I would recommend to remove it from Rail Europe. Again another area that I feel would be better in the maps were consistent with text.

I suggest this be the text used for Rail Europe:
*All Paris stations border each other.

Station names are:
*3 letter station name
*3 first letters of the rail line

*Stations can only attack adjacent stations along their rail line except
*Stations in the same city can attack each other.


It is easier to read and maintains consistency across the maps. The only thing lost is the limited attack form the vertically oriented Rail Europe Stations (WAW and MOW) And I don't feel that is a big enough gameplay mechanic to warrant an entirely new text system between the two maps.

PLUS: When are you gonna get rid of the skinny attack lines. They look bad. Why aren't you using railroad tracks like on Rail USA. I think they look much better.
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Postby WidowMakers on Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:23 am

Sorry I should have added this to the previous post.

In Rail USA the Stations were the same size in the large and the small map. I see here that they are larger in the large map. Is that for any reason?

Just want to make sure you scaled them up properly so the numbers would fit.

Plus if you decided to use the smaller size on the big map, I feel it would make that map look better, because it would feel less cramped and would have more room to let the tracks move around the map.
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Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:36 am

WidowMakers wrote:Ok I have a question. How is the gameplay on this map different from Rail USA?

Rail Europe text:
*At Paris all stations border each other
*At terminals with more than one station, attack can only be a bordering station
*At four-way stations, all territories border each other
*External to terminals, attack can only be made along the route lines.

Rail USA text:
Station names are:
*3 letter station name
*3 first letters of the rail line

*Stations can only attack adjacent stations along their rail line except
*Stations in teh same city can attack each other.
*All Chicago stations border each other.


So based on this text
1) The only difference I see in gameplay between the two is that the stations in Rail Europe for MOW and WAW can't all attack each other. Based on everything else written, it would play the same as Rail USA.


Thanks WM for the comments.

Yes WAW and MOW stations can't all attak each other.
NO it is not going to play the same as RAIL USA.
In RAIL USA the routes are very linear.
IN Europe there is a mixture of linear routes and regional routes as for Italy, Iberia, GB and Scandanavia mixed with those other linear routes.
This will make play very different indeed.

So why not (to keep things similar and less confusing for the player when both of these maps are out) Use the same text for both maps.

I might consider that although I would prefer to have somethings different.

It would keep the understanding of the maps the same and players would be less confused with two types of text and one map that has only two cities that have stations that can't attack each other (MOW and WAW)

2) On rail USA cairns, you told me not to use the word terminal because it meant the end of a line. That being said then, I would recommend to remove it from Rail Europe. Again another area that I feel would be better in the maps were consistent with text.

I suggest this be the text used for Rail Europe:
*All Paris stations border each other.

Station names are:
*3 letter station name
*3 first letters of the rail line

*Stations can only attack adjacent stations along their rail line except
*Stations in the same city can attack each other.


It is easier to read and maintains consistency across the maps. The only thing lost is the limited attack form the vertically oriented Rail Europe Stations (WAW and MOW) And I don't feel that is a big enough gameplay mechanic to warrant an entirely new text system between the two maps.

Good considerations.

PLUS: When are you gonna get rid of the skinny attack lines. They look bad. Why aren't you using railroad tracks like on Rail USA. I think they look much better.

When i let you know it's time to do rail lines thanks...LOL...luv the humour :)
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Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:40 am

WidowMakers wrote:Sorry I should have added this to the previous post.

In Rail USA the Stations were the same size in the large and the small map. I see here that they are larger in the large map. Is that for any reason?


No simply that i haven't got to scaling the stations up or down yet.

Just want to make sure you scaled them up properly so the numbers would fit.

Plus if you decided to use the smaller size on the big map, I feel it would make that map look better, because it would feel less cramped and would have more room to let the tracks move around the map.


Yes the stations on the small map are 22px wide, and i'll prob make the stations on the large map 24px wide. At present they're about 28 px wide.
Last edited by cairnswk on Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby WidowMakers on Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:40 am

cairnswk wrote:Thanks WM for the comments.

Yes WAW and MOW stations can't all attak each other.
NO it is not going to play the same as RAIL USA.
In RAIL USA the routes are very linear.
IN Europe there is a mixture of linear routes and regional routes as for Italy, Iberia, GB and Scandanavia mixed with those other linear routes.
This will make play very different indeed.
I agree the new rail route configurations will make the map play different. I just meant that having different "directions" between two Rail maps might be confusing thats all.

Looking good.
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Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:44 am

WidowMakers wrote:
cairnswk wrote:Thanks WM for the comments.

Yes WAW and MOW stations can't all attak each other.
NO it is not going to play the same as RAIL USA.
In RAIL USA the routes are very linear.
IN Europe there is a mixture of linear routes and regional routes as for Italy, Iberia, GB and Scandanavia mixed with those other linear routes.
This will make play very different indeed.
I agree the new rail route configurations will make the map play different. I just meant that having different "directions" between two Rail maps might be confusing thats all.

Looking good.


Mmmm.....a possibility, but i think we went way outside the standard template with Rail USA and everyone seemed to latch onto that quickly, i imagine that bringing it back to a mixture of the two might be pleasing to many.

Thanks for 'looking good"..appreciated WM. :) It still feels a little messy, but i think that is because it has different mix of station types (which I think is very representative of Europe); plus THERE ARE NO RAIL LINES YET. :wink:
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Postby onbekende on Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:52 am

InterCity Express with Bonus of 6 is good, wouldn't do 7
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Postby cairnswk on Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:57 am

onbekende wrote:InterCity Express with Bonus of 6 is good, wouldn't do 7

Done...onbekende...changed on V7 soon...please refresh your browser.
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V8 update

Postby cairnswk on Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:26 am

This update has:

* some changes for WM re the stations text to bring this map into line with RAIL USA to some extent
* some other changes in the way stations can attack some stations
* reconfiguration of the way the rail lines operate - kind of like on platforms
* Line Codes on this map rather than first three letters of the line service.

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Postby WidowMakers on Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:12 am

If WAW pink cannot attack WAW blue then WAW blue is a dead end and not really a border any more. Correct?
Same with
MOW : BLX
BRU : BNX
SPG : TVG

And LUS is really two two station cities because the north two cannot attack the south two?

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Postby cairnswk on Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:31 am

WidowMakers wrote:If WAW pink cannot attack WAW blue then WAW blue is a dead end and not really a border any more. Correct?
Same with
MOW : BLX
BRU : BNX
SPG : TVG

And LUS is really two two station cities because the north two cannot attack the south two?

WM


Yes.....and this will require bonuses to be re-calculated of course.
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Postby onbekende on Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:30 pm

Bonus recalc: my cue

I hope I understand the the new border system :s

BNX:
4 terr, 3 def, 9 cont => Bonus of 4, great

BLX:
3 terr, 3 def, 2 cont => Bonus of 3, perhaps 2? I can see the same thing happening now there as with the Iberian/TGV system in the south. Naimly holding HAM SCR station and SPG BLx station, that total makes 9 terr to only defend 2, good for a max bonus of 4! Thus please BLX => 2

NRX:
6 terr, 5 def, 9 cont => Bonus of 6, this can stay, hard to get and defend line

VLX:
3 terr, 1 def, 1 cont => Bonus of 1, but sure, 2 is good, makes people want to get it I suppose

BRL:
4 terr, 1 def, 1 cont => Bonus of 2, sure, again 1 for the people who think its great to have, an Oceania so to speak

TRI:
5 terr, 3 def, 2 cont => Bonus of 3, but 1 is more then good enough

ORX:
7 terr, 6 def, 8 cont => Bonus of 7: good enough

SOX:
9 terr, 7 def, 9 cont => Bonus of 8, please 8, pretty please

VSX:
6 terr, 6 def, 8 cont => Bonus of 7, good eough

TGV:
4 terr, 4 def, 9 cont => Bonus of 5, but you know I asked for way less, at now the north-east has the same problem arrizing, if you have PAR TGV and NCE TGV, you have Iberia/TGV, preferable only a bonus of 4, thus TGV: 3 max

RIB:
7 terr, 2 def, 1 cont => Bonus of 3, MAKE IT 2!!!!!! or the games I tart playing this on and no-one sees this I win (wit the dices being nice)

ECX:
7 terr, 5 def, 5 cont => Bonus of 6, sure, good enough

SCR:
7 terr, 2 def, 2 cont => Bonus of 3, but 2 is MORE THEN FINE (again the rant)

TEE:
7 terr, 4 def, 9 cont => Bonus of 5, 5 is more then fine, 6 max

UKR:
6 terr, 2 def, 2 cont => Bonus of 3, atmost 3!! Only MOW and BUD need defending

ICE:
6 terr, 4 def, 7 cont => Bonus of 5, atmost 6, no 7


you saw my rants for the north-east and the south-west stuff. I so hope people don't see me doing tha when I play this map :D
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Postby twinfists on Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:04 pm

You seem to have put Birmingham where Liverpool is. I understand that the places aren't pinpoint accurate but there is about 100 miles between them!!
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