[Official] Canada REVAMP [Quenched]

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Postby DiM on Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:20 am

i have already suggested in this thread that all revamps should be presented as optional.

simply put 2 more links in the upper right like this:

original map
[refresh] [small] [large]

revamp
[refresh] [small] [large]


i think this would solve all the problems with people complaining.
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Postby rebelman on Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:31 am

DiM wrote:i think this would solve all the problems with people complaining.


nope it wont stop me :evil:

i miss the old map yes, but I believe this new one is flawed in a very significant way, until that has been resolved I will continue complaining, no map should have ever been quenched that discriminates so much against those of us with bad eyesight - as I said on the thread in general discussion until this fundemental flaw is fixed thip map should remain her and not go live.

PS I refuse to turn on the colorblind setting just for this map as this would set a precedence in here that i don't want to set ie maps can be rolled out with no more concern for those of us with bad eyesight.
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Postby rebelman on Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:25 pm



and between these 5 threads and this one there has been no reponse thus far from WM. I hope this pattern changes soon
Don't now why people on here don't like being cooks, remember under siege: A former SEAL, now cook, is the only person who can stop a gang of terrorists when they sieze control of a US Navy battleship.
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Postby Optimus Prime on Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:34 pm

rebelman wrote:
DiM wrote:i think this would solve all the problems with people complaining.


nope it wont stop me :evil:

i miss the old map yes, but I believe this new one is flawed in a very significant way, until that has been resolved I will continue complaining, no map should have ever been quenched that discriminates so much against those of us with bad eyesight - as I said on the thread in general discussion until this fundemental flaw is fixed thip map should remain her and not go live.

PS I refuse to turn on the colorblind setting just for this map as this would set a precedence in here that i don't want to set ie maps can be rolled out with no more concern for those of us with bad eyesight.

rebelman, I am having a hard time believing that you are pitching such a fit about this in so many different places around the forum. If you can't see the armies because of the colors use the BoB Script (that has now been fixed to work perfectly fine with AJAX) and fade the map by 10-20%. You aren't going to convince anyone to delete the new map.
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Postby Aerial Attack on Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:43 pm

OPie,

Unfortunately there are two/three problems with your reply (which I very much agree with - no reason to be stubborn when there is potentially a ready solution to the problem).

1. Not everyone can/will download AJAX BOB. Either they are unaware of it, don't use the proper browser for it, their security system doesn't allow scripts/add-ons, or they just don't trust downloads.

1a. I just downloaded the newest version of AJAX BOB - it's very very nice. Alas in all it's incarnations (2.0 to the new 2.4) and fixes, so far - it has been downloaded fewer than 1000 times [and I know I account for 5 or 6 of those]. My guess is that fewer than 500 people actually have it.

2. Map fade is nice, but you still have to worry about fading the names as well as the areas. Not so much of a problem, but potentially.
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Postby rebelman on Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:59 pm

Optimus Prime wrote:rebelman, I am having a hard time believing that you are pitching such a fit about this in so many different places around the forum. If you can't see the armies because of the colors use the BoB Script (that has now been fixed to work perfectly fine with AJAX) and fade the map by 10-20%. You aren't going to convince anyone to delete the new map.


optimus you know me from your tournies, i enjoy cc and love telling a yarn but this is something that has me bothered in a significant way - I (successfully) camaigned to have the red numbers changed in D Day as there was what I percieved to be a problem there however this in comparison is far more serious as its much more widespread problem.

I have ajax bob and i do use it (well done yeti) but as was the case in d day when i post i think of those that are in a similar boat but dont visit the forums and post.

I have commented on threads started by others, I only created 2 - one in tournies as until this is fixed I want to avoid this map so I am appealling to organisers not to use it in their tournies (something which the new tournies general discussion fourum is well suited to IMHO) and I also opened a bug report because this color clash is a gigantic bug.

I never said I wanted this map deleted it is visually stunning but the territory colors need to be changed urgently to correct this obvious fundemental playability flaw, that's what I am asking for.

Those of us with poorer eyesight here on on cc should not be discriminated against - that is something I believe whole heartedly in and having played many of the near 60 maps we have here - this is the only one that I would describe as unplayable to me.
Don't now why people on here don't like being cooks, remember under siege: A former SEAL, now cook, is the only person who can stop a gang of terrorists when they sieze control of a US Navy battleship.
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Postby cairnswk on Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:05 pm

Rebelman....can you advise on the specifics of what is the problem here.
What exactly can or can't you see that affects you with this map?
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Postby Aerial Attack on Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:34 pm

I think the problem is that those with poor eyesight have difficulty differentiating primary colors when overlaid on a variant of that color. This is one of the few maps that does not use the darker/lighter shade army circles around the army numbers. Therefore, the seamless integration into the map makes it more difficult to determine who might be where. I guess for visually impaired persons, the foundry might need to implement a requirement for army circles on any terrs that too closely resemble the colors used for the army numbers themselves.
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Postby cairnswk on Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:43 pm

Aerial Attack wrote:I think the problem is that those with poor eyesight have difficulty differentiating primary colors when overlaid on a variant of that color. This is one of the few maps that does not use the darker/lighter shade army circles around the army numbers. Therefore, the seamless integration into the map makes it more difficult to determine who might be where. I guess for visually impaired persons, the foundry might need to implement a requirement for army circles on any terrs that too closely resemble the colors used for the army numbers themselves.


Understood...thanks aerial attack. Is this simply a case of getting WM to replace the army circles then?
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Postby TheKidsTrumpet on Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:58 pm

That's what it seems like after reading all the many posts. The army circles seem to be a huge help.
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Postby cairnswk on Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:52 pm

WM....are you able to do anything that will replace army circles on this map?

It might solve a lot of issues for the sight-impaired.
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Postby WidowMakers on Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:42 pm

Can i get an answer as to why no one was complaining about the old map please? The new maps colors are actually lighter then the old one. Why the big deal now?

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Postby The Fuzzy Pengui on Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:56 pm

I love the new map....no reason to complain about the old because it isn't around anymore....great job WM!
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Postby WidowMakers on Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:58 pm

The Fuzzy Pengui wrote:I love the new map....no reason to complain about the old because it isn't around anymore....great job WM!
I don't care if people don't like it. I just don't understand how it is harder to read than the old map. That is what i want explained. Why rebelman did not complain about this for the last year.


Here is the old map with all blue
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And the new one
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Postby Tisha on Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:01 pm

there was the poll...if people want to have a say on the maps and revamps, they just need to pay attention to what is going on in here. i don't think i would like complete army circles, maybe just a glow behind the armies.
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Postby rebelman on Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:04 pm

WidowMakers wrote:Can i get an answer as to why no one was complaining about the old map please? The new maps colors are actually lighter then the old one. Why the big deal now?


I can't speak for anyone else but I have never had any trouble reading army numbers on the old canada map (or any other map I have played) whereas I have a huge problem reading them on the new one. I have experienced this problem other places in the past but since I joined cc the closest I have to experiencing this problem was the red numbering in d day but is was nowhere near as difficult to read as this one is. In its current format to me as good as it looks this map is totally unplayable for me anyway (and I assume others like me).
Don't now why people on here don't like being cooks, remember under siege: A former SEAL, now cook, is the only person who can stop a gang of terrorists when they sieze control of a US Navy battleship.
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Postby WidowMakers on Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:06 pm

Tisha wrote:there was the poll...if people want to have a say on the maps and revamps, they just need to pay attention to what is going on in here. i don't think i would like complete army circles, maybe just a glow behind the armies.
I don't want to have circles either. The issue with the glow is that it would need to be big enough to show "88". Thus it would turn out to be an army circle.

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Postby WidowMakers on Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:08 pm

rebelman wrote:
WidowMakers wrote:Can i get an answer as to why no one was complaining about the old map please? The new maps colors are actually lighter then the old one. Why the big deal now?


I can't speak for anyone else but I have never had any trouble reading army numbers on the old canada map (or any other map I have played) whereas I have a huge problem reading them on the new one. I have experienced this problem other places in the past but since I joined cc the closest I have to experiencing this problem was the red numbering in d day but is was nowhere near as difficult to read as this one is. In its current format to me as good as it looks this map is totally unplayable for me anyway (and I assume others like me).
You still have not answered my question. WHY IS IT HARDER TO READ?

The maps have the same colors. The new map is actually lighter in areas. How are the numbers harder to read on the new map in the red and blue areas? Please tell me that. I find it hard to believe that the old map with blue numbers (the one I posted) is easier to read then the new one.

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Postby Gold Knight on Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:15 pm

I realize that a lot of hard work went into this, and I applaud your efforts WM, but Im not a fan of the map either. It looks way too highlighted now, and I for one liked the way the old map looked. Im probably not going to play that map anymore.
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Postby WidowMakers on Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:16 pm

Gold Knight wrote:I realize that a lot of hard work went into this, and I applaud your efforts WM, but Im not a fan of the map either. It looks way too highlighted now, and I for one liked the way the old map looked. Im probably not going to play that map anymore.
Thats fine. Just please someone tell me how the OLD map is HARDER to READ than the NEW map!

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Postby Gold Knight on Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:21 pm

WidowMakers wrote:
Gold Knight wrote:I realize that a lot of hard work went into this, and I applaud your efforts WM, but Im not a fan of the map either. It looks way too highlighted now, and I for one liked the way the old map looked. Im probably not going to play that map anymore.
Thats fine. Just please someone tell me how the OLD map is HARDER to READ than the NEW map!

WM


See, I really dont think that is fine. If you revamp a map that was liked and now people dont want to play it anymore, Id say thats a problem. But thats just me...
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Postby 0ojakeo0 on Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:22 pm

i love the new one
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Postby Herakilla on Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:22 pm

WM dont let it get to you if people hate it, all they hate is change and this is a good change
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Postby WidowMakers on Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:24 pm

Gold Knight wrote:
WidowMakers wrote:
Gold Knight wrote:I realize that a lot of hard work went into this, and I applaud your efforts WM, but Im not a fan of the map either. It looks way too highlighted now, and I for one liked the way the old map looked. Im probably not going to play that map anymore.
Thats fine. Just please someone tell me how the OLD map is HARDER to READ than the NEW map!

WM


See, I really dont think that is fine. If you revamp a map that was liked and now people dont want to play it anymore, Id say thats a problem. But thats just me...
It is fine because you can't please everyone. If you don't like it then FINE. I just want an explanation as to why you can't read the armies but never complained about the old map which clearly has the same (if not worse) issue.

Herakilla wrote:WM dont let it get to you if people hate it, all they hate is change and this is a good change
I am not letting it get to me. That is why I said it is fine if other people don't like it. I just don't want hem saying it is bad because of an issue that has been around since the old map and was never brought up.


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Postby Gold Knight on Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:24 pm

Herakilla wrote:WM dont let it get to you if people hate it, all they hate is change and this is a good change


But the thing is, Ive liked all the other revamps that have come out so far. As I said, it shows he put in the time and effort to make it look better, but I dont think it looks better. Just an opinion, no need to think its anything personal, just doesnt appeal to me.
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