Dungeon of Draknor - Halls of Testing [Quenched]

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Postby yeti_c on Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:36 pm

The difference between the continents is hard to notice - perhaps a mini map would be a better idea?

C.
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Postby Coleman on Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:40 pm

yeti_c wrote:The difference between the continents is hard to notice - perhaps a mini map would be a better idea?

C.
A mini-map with the colors and the floor patterns and I'm sold.
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Postby bryguy on Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:51 pm

Coleman wrote:
yeti_c wrote:The difference between the continents is hard to notice - perhaps a mini map would be a better idea?

C.
A mini-map with the colors and the floor patterns and I'm sold.


same here 8)
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Postby cena-rules on Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:44 pm

Coleman wrote:
cena-rules wrote:1 thing is that where you have the number in the temple blue is fairly hard to see for lil ol' colourblind me
I actually didn't even notice the colors were different, I was going by the floor patterns.


No its is just how dark it is
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Postby WidowMakers on Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:43 am

Coleman wrote:
yeti_c wrote:The difference between the continents is hard to notice - perhaps a mini map would be a better idea?

C.
A mini-map with the colors and the floor patterns and I'm sold.
I will look itno that later. I really don't like it for several reasons.
1) I don't like it. :D
2) I want the three maps to have the same feels and look. If I do a mini map for this level I would want to do one for the others. I believe there are some gameplay attributes in the other levels that might not lend themselves to mini map bonus depictions.

Either way I just want to let everyone know that I will be play testing the map with some of my friends (they are on CC as well) the 26th of December.

Once that is done we will try to get a better understanding of the 1-way border gameplay influence and then I will post the recommendation of the final layout. Since all I am doing is flipping arrows it should not take long.

Have a Merry Christmas

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Postby Coleman on Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:11 am

Right, but on the other maps you can maybe black the areas that won't make sense on the mini-map, but if I'm to assume you'll have continents they could still show up.

I get the desire to make multiple versions of the same theme like a trilogy, but I have to care about this map as a stand alone project, and I'm fairly certain that a mini-map representation of the continents would be very beneficial for this map.

If you want you could make the mini-map look like it is on parchment and on the other levels have torn parchment so it looks like a map was there but has been taken or destroyed and then put your legend over it.
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Postby mibi on Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:32 am

bah.. you don't need a mini-map. A player should take a few seconds to figure out which is which.... I mean christ, there ARE only 5 continents.
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Postby Kaplowitz on Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:23 pm

I agree with mibi, its fine like that. Maybe it could say the name of the continent near the continent on the map, but i dont think a minimap is needed...
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Postby WidowMakers on Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:26 pm

Kaplowitz wrote:I agree with mibi, its fine like that. Maybe it could say the name of the continent near the continent on the map, but i dont think a minimap is needed...
I have no idea what you mean.

I may redo the legend bonus for looks and to make it more consistent with my plans for the other maps but I most likely will not do a mini map.

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Postby Kaplowitz on Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:31 pm

I was saying keep it the same, but maybe add something like this:
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(Have it say like "Halls" next to to Halls on the map)
the names are near the continents so that it will be easier to distinguish between continents.
Last edited by Kaplowitz on Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby WidowMakers on Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:34 pm

Kaplowitz wrote:I was saying keep it the same, but maybe add something like this:
Image

(Have it say like "Halls" next to to Halls on the map)
the names are near the continents so that it will be easier to distinguish between continents.
That completely is not the style of this map. This map is a D&D style. The large text over the continent does not work.

Plus the halls are all over the map from top to bottom and left to right. There is no way I could get the word HALLS to overlay all of those territories in a nice looking manner.

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Postby Kaplowitz on Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:37 pm

Not overlay, but next to.

But i see what youre saying....
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Postby Selin on Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:51 am

cena-rules wrote:1 thing is that where you have the number in the temple blue is fairly hard to see for lil ol' colourblind me


You can't see everything clearly in dungeons! They are dark. If you are afraid, don't enter! :twisted:

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Postby MR. Nate on Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:04 am

mibi wrote:bah.. you don't need a mini-map. A player should take a few seconds to figure out which is which.... I mean christ, there ARE only 5 continents.


mibi, I have noticed that you consistently give the CC masses the benefit of the doubt. You are too kind. We all know that there are some players who would stare at this map for hours, clueless as to the fact that bonuses even exist.

That said, I want those people's points. No overlay, no mini-maps. If you can't figure it out, get Bob. If you still can't figure it out, sacrifice some points to the greater good or don't play.
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Postby Coleman on Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:34 am

I'm starting to lean back towards it being fine as is.

One problem though. I am aware that this site has people that at the very least claim to be 10-12 years old. While I'd like to believe they all know Roman Numerals I bet there is a good chance they don't...
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Postby WidowMakers on Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:39 pm

OK Play testing done! Here is Version 13. Lucky 13 :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Special Thanks to (in no particular order)Serbia, Mr. Nate, Big Jon, Krueger, littilj for helping play test.

Changes:
    1) Faith group increased in territory size by 1 (taking artifactory from Magic and renaming it Chapel while renaming the current chapel, the confessional). This also was to lower the number of territories that magic has (old was 12). Magic now has 11.
    2) The arrow from the Library to the Component Closet was switched. The old map would allow a player to defend the entire left side of the magic area by only holding the Dormitory. By switching this arrow the defense of the magic area was made more difficult plus since the only way to get to Faith from Magic was the old artifactory, defending the Faith area was too easy.
    3) The main gate was taken out of the Halls group and will start with 3 neutrals. It just made the Halls harder to hold and with the current direction of the arrows, It does not affect either the borders or attack positions of the three groups at the bottom (Magic, Might, Halls)
    4) When looking over the map after playing a while it was easy to see that the halls were really the only thing that could attack and be attacked by each other group. This was fixed.

    We decided that each bonus group needed to be able to attack, directly, at least 2 other bonuses.

    Faith/Magic/Halls: By including the old Artifactory (now Chapel) to the Faith group the number of borders did not go up. But we still had the problem that the new chapel was cutoff from the rest of Faith. We then shortened the West Hall and made the sleeping arcade adjacent to the new chapel.
    The chapel can now attack the West Hall (previously the Sleeping arcade could).

    Halls/Stealth/Might: With the old map the Might group could only attack the Halls. With the main gate removed from the Halls group the ready room can attack across to the Practice Range but not directly. We also thought that the number of borders for the 2nd largest group should be higher than three.

    So we decided to have the Archery Range attack the Poison Storage. This fulfills the requirement of each group being able to attack at least 2 other bonus groups directly. We also allowed the covert training to attack into the archery range, thus increasing the Might borders to 4.
    5) The name of the Vestibule was changed to Central Hall to keep with the Hall bonus naming convention



So as it stands now
Code: Select all
Bonus Group            Territories           Borders                Bonus
Stealth                        5                 2                    3
Faith                          6                 3                    4
Halls                          5                 4                    5
Might                          9                 4                    6
Magic                          11                4                    7
Main Gate (Starting with 3 neutrals)


EDIT: I also switched the floor patterns between Stealth and Might. That way, magic and might have dissimilar patterns. Previously the where both rectangular.
I will start working on the XML shortly.
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Last edited by WidowMakers on Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Selin on Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:42 pm

Coleman wrote:I'm starting to lean back towards it being fine as is.

One problem though. I am aware that this site has people that at the very least claim to be 10-12 years old. While I'd like to believe they all know Roman Numerals I bet there is a good chance they don't...


They should first learn Roman Numerals and than play this map :twisted:

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Postby Serbia on Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:53 pm

WidowMakers, first thanks for having me over to test-play the map.

I found the map very easily playable, and the changes we made to it were good improvements. I personally don't think it'll be long before this one is ready to be quenched. Great map! Also after playing it, it's easier for me to pick out the different backgrounds for each individual continent.

All in all, looking forward to playing this one online!
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Postby MR. Nate on Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:30 pm

I'd like to add my thanks to Widowmakers for letting me play as well. The changes are important. The first game we played felt a bit cramped. It was impossible to go after anyone without trying to take one of the halls. With the new changes, it's still a constant border, but there are options when attacking. I still wouldn't recommend trying to hold the halls as your primary strategy, but it seems that it's a decent starting pint in a pinch.
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Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:46 pm

All the changes you made sound quite reasonable, especially decreasing Magic and increasing Faith.

And the floor swaps sound like an excellent idea also. I can easily distinguish, even more so, what areas are where.

I also like your little staircase "Down to Level 2", though it doesn't look like it is decending so much. Maybe a spiral down. ;) But that may just be too much work. I like it either way.

Hopefully if and when the map is up for play, we won't receive questions about "What is Faith's bonus?" Etc. If there is an overwhelming outcry about the Roman Numerals, you can always add (4)...smaller and off to the side. :)

Nicely done!


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Postby Krueger on Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:05 am

Testing was a lot of fun, I'm looking forward to playing on the map and not having the borders move on me in the middle of the game! (I was holding stealth and it was decided to make it so might could attack it.)
Kudos to Mr. Nate for "winning" that last game!
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Postby WidowMakers on Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:17 pm

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Postby WidowMakers on Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:21 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:I also like your little staircase "Down to Level 2", though it doesn't look like it is decending so much. Maybe a spiral down. ;) But that may just be too much work. I like it either way.
--Andy
I tried doing this but since the view is a top down and the stairway goes into the wall, there is not much a way to show depth. I tried to make the stairs in the middle of the room but it did not look good or make sense, so I just ended up keeping them where they are now.

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Postby Blitzaholic on Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:01 pm

this looks awesome to play
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Postby WidowMakers on Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:09 pm

Blitzaholic wrote:this looks awesome to play
I hope this will help feed some of the players desires for a more classic style/less gimmicky gameplay map. Even thought there are only 1-ways the map is easy to read and understand. It is just straight up kill or be killed.

Hope everyone likes it.

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