Dust Bowl [Quenched]

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Do you want to have the map changed so Dust territories are given out evenly?

Yes
35
70%
No
15
30%
 
Total votes : 50

Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby pmchugh on Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:49 pm

It is +14.1% over all games. So it is weighted for how many have bad drops, and how many of them should have been won for the player had they not received a bad drop.

chapcrap wrote:The bottom line is, why do you want to have unfair drops happen at all? Starting a game out even to start with is the goal here. Obviously there will be luck in any game and on any map here, but the amount that the drop changes things in Dust Bowl changes things is quite a bit.


The game is by nature unfair. That is what my rant was about. Whether or not you change the drop, it will still be unfair. I think the drop adds to the map, since it can counter act first turn or dice and you must employ different tactics depending on how many of the regions you get. Of course it can go the other way, but it doesn't seem to happen all that often anyway.
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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby chapcrap on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:01 pm

So, that's a pretty good vote count in favor of the change.
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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby IcePack on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:10 pm

I'd still like to see a change, but avoid "everyone gets the same amount" scenario and just LESSEN the amount of difference that can result in a drop. Like no player gets more than X
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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby nolefan5311 on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:12 pm

As far as I know, it's either completely random, or distributed evenly. I'm not an expert on the code, but as far as I know there's no in-between.
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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:38 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:As far as I know, it's either completely random, or distributed evenly. I'm not an expert on the code, but as far as I know there's no in-between.

You can make it more even by coding starting positions with a max. So all you would have is all of the decay regions as a starting position and place a max of 3 onto it. So in a 2 player game, both players would get 3 each from the starting position with the rest handed out equally as long as they are not coded as neutral. This would mean that all players would get say between 3-5 each and in 8 player games, everyone would get 1 or two only.
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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby nolefan5311 on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:44 pm

koontz1973 wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:As far as I know, it's either completely random, or distributed evenly. I'm not an expert on the code, but as far as I know there's no in-between.

You can make it more even by coding starting positions with a max. So all you would have is all of the decay regions as a starting position and place a max of 3 onto it. So in a 2 player game, both players would get 3 each from the starting position with the rest handed out equally as long as they are not coded as neutral. This would mean that all players would get say between 3-5 each and in 8 player games, everyone would get 1 or two only.


Well there you go.
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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby agentcom on Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:02 pm

Voting no until someone actually does an analysis of whether this map is significantly more "unfair" than other maps. Two people have taken small samples and been able to "prove" opposite sides of this argument. I mentioned before that it wouldn't be that hard to actually analyze this, but it is beyond my abilities.
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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby chapcrap on Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:58 pm

agentcom wrote:Voting no until someone actually does an analysis of whether this map is significantly more "unfair" than other maps. Two people have taken small samples and been able to "prove" opposite sides of this argument. I mentioned before that it wouldn't be that hard to actually analyze this, but it is beyond my abilities.

I think both the samples yielded essentially the same numbers. The only difference in the analysis is that I believe that the drop is unfair and the other analyst believed that the drop didn't matter, because the fact that it's 12 terts to start makes more of a difference.

So, either way, we both called for change.
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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby Nola_Lifer on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:03 am

Would like to see the map revamped on graphics. Gotta be a better way then just solid lines to denote impassables.
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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:24 am

So, since it seems there's a consensus for change the starting drop.... who will change it? when? how?

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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:35 am

thenobodies80 wrote:So, since it seems there's a consensus for change the starting drop.... who will change it? when? how?

I will do it for you. Will get it done when you say yes. How do you want it done?

Decay regions as starting positions with a max of 3 (rest as neutrals)
or
Decay regions as starting positions with a max of 3 (rest get deployed as normal)

Give a max of 11 terts for starting 1v1 games. Meaning one coded neutral in Norfolk at 3.
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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:48 am

nobodies, can you post the large and small map for me as I cannot find them (forgot how to if I ever could) and also a current copy of the xml so I can get the territs matched up so we do not disrupt the current games.
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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby RjBeals on Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:56 am

Nola_Lifer wrote:Would like to see the map revamped on graphics. Gotta be a better way then just solid lines to denote impassables.


as in what?
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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby ManBungalow on Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:14 am

koontz1973 wrote:nobodies, can you post the large and small map for me as I cannot find them (forgot how to if I ever could) and also a current copy of the xml so I can get the territs matched up so we do not disrupt the current games.

XML is here:
http://www.conquerclub.com/maps/

Images:
go to browse maps on the start a game tab, then open the thumbnail in a new tab - you can change the URL from ___.S.jpg to ___.L.jpg or vice versa

RjBeals wrote:
Nola_Lifer wrote:Would like to see the map revamped on graphics. Gotta be a better way then just solid lines to denote impassables.


as in what?

The graphics look great to me.
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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:27 am

Thanks ManB, will get it done very soon now. Expect it no later than this time tomorrow.
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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby chapcrap on Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:32 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Thanks ManB, will get it done very soon now. Expect it no later than this time tomorrow.

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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:42 pm

Here you go guys. The new xml.

This one has the decay regions as positions with a max of 3 given out to players. With no underlying neutrals the rest will go into normal deployment but this should stop 99.9% of unbalanced games. If it turns out it does not work, then neutrals can go into the others easily.

Secondly, Norfolk is now a 3 neutral so in 1v1 games, both should start with 11 territs.

Used the old xml for territ, continent order and also for cords so there is no change there.

Dustbolw.xml
(14.33 KiB) Downloaded 37 times
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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby chapcrap on Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:49 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Here you go guys. The new xml.

This one has the decay regions as positions with a max of 3 given out to players. With no underlying neutrals the rest will go into normal deployment but this should stop 99.9% of unbalanced games. If it turns out it does not work, then neutrals can go into the others easily.

Secondly, Norfolk is now a 3 neutral so in 1v1 games, both should start with 11 territs.

Used the old xml for territ, continent order and also for cords so there is no change there.

Dustbolw.xml

Dustbolw?

The rest sounds great!! :D
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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:33 am

Is this new xml OK and if so, has it been sent/uploaded yet?
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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:30 am

Will check it this evening, when back at home ;)

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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby chapcrap on Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:23 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:Will check it this evening, when back at home ;)

Well?
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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:07 pm

chapcrap wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:Will check it this evening, when back at home ;)

Well?


Ehm well I forgot about it :oops:
Going to do it now...sorry O:)

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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:53 pm

The xml is ok. I've already sent it.

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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:44 pm

Great new and thanks.
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Re: Dust Bowl [Quenched]

Postby agentcom on Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:46 pm

So does that mean the map has been changed?
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